Why is coin-dumping sinful?

[icepick]

Firstly: I'm almost certain that anything I say has been said before, as this topic seems to come up often enough.

However, I simply can't help but to chime in. Basically, I support the idea of people playing games in whichever manner they prefer. If someone credit-feeds (ha ha, Icarus) through a game that I love and they say that it's stupid or pointless, I might take it as an insult towards me (since I love the game), the game (which I love), or the genre in general (which I also really like). Or, I might take it as any other noun that I like and they don't, which is the healthier option.

I try not to get into the mindset of feeling that I know what's best for someone, even though I really believe that everyone would have more fun with shooting games if they played for 1CC. Some people simply aren't into the idea though, and that's fine. They're basically not playing the same games that I am, though.

My tendancy is not to use credits at all, but I pull the memory card out (hence default two or three credits) when playing with non-STG friends, and let them use them. It helps them get into the idea of the whole thing, but I often end up soft-resetting the game because "I'm not going to play it without them" when they're sitting right there.

Also: I personally don't use credits to get an "overview" of a game before going for a 1CC. Granted, I liked all of my games nearly at first glance, and they all seem worthwhile, and of course I wouldn't have bought them if they didn't seem so. It's just that seeing a level or area that I've never seen before is a really big part for me, especially when the only thing keeping me from getting there is my personal ability. It's like when I thought that Sandopolis was the final level in Sonic & Knuckles because it's the farthest one in the attract mode, and was so stunned to see Lava Reef and Sky Sanctuary. I thought that I was in a different world!

It has more to do with the fact that just plugging in endless continues really takes the fun out of a game.

Even getting a little farther than you did last time on one continue feels like a real accomplishment and makes gaming rewarding. So many people don't like shmups because they credit feed.

I agree wholeheartedly. It's sad that the majority of people won't know what they're missing, because how much you put into these games is (in my opinion) directly equivalent to how much you'll get out of them.

It's just that people are so used to such concepts as game save, checkpoints, continues (which are actually earned, as opposed to credits, which usually come out of nowhere), and limited control. They don't understand that it's very possible to complete an STG with one credit, because their performance in the game is solely limited by their personal ability. Push left, your onscreen representation moves left. Push right, push up, push down, you get the idea. There are no platforms to land on, no glitches to give you stupid death, no wonky camera angles (well, sometimes stuff does get in the way). In a lot of ways, the games are way easier than other genres simply due to the fact that control and game mechanics are so specific.

So maybe they assume that it's cheap like other games, and they don't even try. I'm talking about the way-mainstream fellas here.

It's better than playing the first level of a game over and over, and going insane as a result.

I hear you on that one. I think that the best cure for that, though, is playing for a moderate period of time at moderate intervals, and altering your play strategy for the early levels (usually to augment score). You can kinda learn what to do in later, challenging levels just as well when you're playing the first few levels again as when you're, say, sleeping. The subconscious mind sees and processes all. It will know what to do.

But, still. It ends up that you're seeing things that you've never seen before for the first time, right after seeing the same things over and over and over. Ideally, our skill level should improve at a rate which exceeds that of our level of... level fatigue. Obscene amounts of people would scoff at me for nearly purposefully making myself tired of a game... but nothing compares with the feeling of getting farther than I ever have, on learned skill alone.

In any event, I think that coin-dumping (I myself had not heard that term before either) is a valid choice, & one that I often employ for the learning process. I've coin dumped more recently in R-Type Final just so I could see the later levels & get a feel for bosses & enemy placement later on so I'm more prepared when I try for a 1CC. I've also used it in Gradius V to keep practicing a stage I'm having difficulty on (like Stage 3) so I can actually get through it later on when I am more able to advance to the higher levels.

That sounds reasonable to me. I've been thinking, however, that if someone were to keep trying using only one credit, eventually their practice in the earlier levels (and all-around skill and hand-eye coordination improvement) would sort of allow them to think and respond quickly enough to handle anything thrown at them fairly well, in those later levels.

As for me, I've been playing Trizeal recently, and my efforts with in particular the second and third stage bosses seem to have introduced some kind of spidey-sense that allowed me to fare unbelievably well through stage four simply going on instinct (I'd never gotten that far before). There were a lot of moments where I was like, "that was LUCK" or "that hit me. That had to have hit me" but I'm inclined to think that it wasn't simply some game glitch.

In any event, while the 1CC is the "Holy Grail" of gaming, I think credit-feeding is just fine for practicing or playing for fun.

I hear you, but I almost wish that I could "play for fun" in the sense that you're implying. To me, these games are about skill and pushing the limits. If I'm not doing that, I'm kinda not having fun, and that stinks. I think it stems from the fact that I know that I'm not playing as well as I can. I'm trying to think of a game that I play for fun where I'm not playing as well as I can. Ooh ooh THPS. Q3A. UT. Hmm, that kinda makes me think actually.

As long as you don't claim to have "beaten" or "finished" a game when you've credit-fed it, I don't see what the problem is.

Beaten is the comical version of a normal player's 1cc. It means finished at any difficulty with any number of continues. Please add it to the glossary.

Ha ha, I never thought of it that way. I kinda like that.

Rapidfire creditspamming to see the ending credits and then claiming the game is too easy or crap is pretty much the height of ignorance.

Ugh, thank you. Thank you thank you.

[Kiken]

No one here worth taking seriously will ever look down upon you if you like to use continues,

Yes, just remember the most fanatical person about using 1 credit only was R3cap.

Which is truly ironic considering that R3cap doesn't actually play videogames.

[Icarus]

Which is truly ironic considering that R3cap doesn't actually play videogames.

Yeah, he switches on the console and stares at the attract sequence for a couple of hours to see if there is any graphical glitches and filtering going on.

[Iluvretro]

My 2 cents.

Credit dumping takes away the whole point out of a game. Take U.N. Squadron for example. Play it in the arcade, and you're excited because you don't want to die. Because getting killed, will cost you money. Take away that edge (Mame), and you'll have to find another means of making a game exciting; namely: 1CC.

On a side note: Credit feeding for PRACTICE (so no for beating/completing) initially stomps the learnin process. If you don't feed you may have to repeat the first level over and over so you'll memorize it faster. However, if you always have to go through the same shit, you're very likely to get bored. Personally, memorising numbs my soul. I just sit there like a zombie. Sometimes it's fun to just play a level you don't know for shit and try and dodge the bullets.

[Pixel_Outlaw]

I'm just frusterated in the love hate relationship it causes with ports of arcade games.

I want to master the game but on a console emulation you have infinate continues. I end up finishing the game and never playing it much after that.


Also I hate how some arcade games are almost impossible because they want your money, you get a home port and the gameplay is totally out of whack.

[Sonic R]

Too bad more games don't utilize lengthy checkpoints (like only at the beginning of the stage) and limit the number of continues you can use with no possibility of incresing it. That way, people who don't bother to learn the game aren't rewarded with seeing more of it.

Aye, games like Super R-Type had the best of both worlds. You could credit-feed all you wanted, but you were still going to learn those levels inside-out and back-to-front.

I have been playing R-Type (TG-16) for 15 years and currently cannot pass level 7. There is a code to obtain 21 credits. When I first started playing I back in 1991, I couldn't get pass level 2 but using credits I was able to learn and plot strategies to succeed. Then I couldn't advance past level 3 so on and so forth. I would go through those 21 credits and with practice I would get better and then get farther. Now today I can get to level 7 without using a credit.

I think what is most important is that however you choose to play is ENJOY the game.

[Frederik]

So many people don't like shmups because they credit feed.

You mean so many people don't understand shmups because they credit feed.

Quoted for truth. If you want satisfaction from ANYTHING, you need to put effort and discipline in it. I´ve heard that "I am just playing for fun" very often, and it seems to me as if they want to say "learning a game the hard way feels like WORK". Frustration is required to feel satisfaction from overcoming it. Playing on 1 credit each time might be more frustrating at times, but it´s also way more rewarding.

The "it´s just for fun" argument (that often occurs as the variation "it´s just a game!" when people play board games and someone is getting angry) could be translated to "I don´t like to really concentrate hard or put any real effort in it".

Of course, you can set the number of credits you use before starting the game - like inserting 3 credits, and playing until they are used up. The problem with uncontrolled continuing is that you lose any kind of indication of how well you did - and games are about those indicators by nature (or seperating the players into winners and losers).

What I am trying to say is that credit-pumping isn´t bad in itself, but that I find the attitude "it doesn´t really matter" weird, since every game is about concentration, achievement, improvement, and also includes a lot of frustration. In a way, a game gives back what you put in it, and the more serious you take it, the more rewarding it will be. Amen.

[Twiddle]

since every game is about concentration, achievement, improvement

mmorpgs

[PPA]

i mean, i dont use contineus because if i restart using one my score gets fucked up so whats the gain?

[Ed Oscuro]

since every game is about concentration, achievement, improvement

mmorpgs

Hardcore MMORPG players will cut your balls off for fifty gold pieces. It's a completely different field, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think that every field in the world (both serious and in play) doesn't have people working on it with perfect concentration.

Even hardcore Uru: Ages Beyond Myst players are intense as hell about what they do.

[Rob]

Which is truly ironic considering that R3cap doesn't actually play videogames.

I was shocked when he said he played something. It was Metal Slug. It went like this:

-He never uses more than 1 credit.
-To do so is cheating.
-Even if you 1 credit the game somewhere down the road, you cheated and it is not legitimate.

[Ed Oscuro]

Which is truly ironic considering that R3cap doesn't actually play videogames.

I was shocked when he said he played something. It was Metal Slug. It went like this:

-He never uses more than 1 credit.
-To do so is cheating.
-Even if you 1 credit the game somewhere down the road, you cheated and it is not legitimate.

:lol:

I bet Resident Evil and Half-Life pissed him off to no end.

"I only play Resident Evil Remake, because it has a no-magical chests option. Magical chests are BULLSHIT and don't help you get better. And let's not get into Half-Life, which gives you free continues by default! Jeez"

[SAM]

Coin-dumping is actually a good thing, it decrease the surival time each credit last. If everyone done that when they play shmups at the acrade, the acrade owner would very happy to put out more shmups cabs and buy more shmups games.

[zaphod]

I dont' think anyone will argue that coint dumping in the arcade is bad on anything except your pocketbook. lol.

If the game chekpoints, then it's not so much a sin to creditfeed, as it still won't let you beat the game. certain games are meat to be a challenge to even beat at ALL because of the chekpointing. Playign a classig Gradius/Parodius game on console is one such example. Creditfeeding helps you hearn the stages, because it gives you more and more chances to practice the area over and over till you get it right.

t's games thaat do not checkpoint that the main issue with credit feeding is had.

Your typical manic shooter can be bombed nd credit fed thru pretty easily. but that's not truly beating the game. yo uhave to beat tit on one credit to truly beat it, and "sedcond loop conditions" exemplify that fac.t unless you've beaten tthe second loop which you can't reach by creditfeeding, you haven't beaten the game.

[Twiddle]

since every game is about concentration, achievement, improvement

mmorpgs

Hardcore MMORPG players will cut your balls off for fifty gold pieces. It's a completely different field, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think that every field in the world (both serious and in play) doesn't have people working on it with perfect concentration.

Even hardcore Uru: Ages Beyond Myst players are intense as hell about what they do.

The amount of effort required for the time invested in MMORPGs (hell, RPGs in general) is incredibly small compared to a RTS or competitive action game, like a first person shooter or fighting game, not to mention that only one or two people out of 25 or 40 are required to care about what really goes on with the number crunching and stat grinding. The only MMORPG that has nearly every player give at least a single fuck about the technical aspects is EVE, and the very same hardcore EQ/like players shy away from it because of that.

I'm not going to deny that there is a game genre that isn't taken seriously, but the games that some players pay more than warranted attention to that have time/effort ratios skewed 100x+ in favor of time... You never see or hear of anyone shitting in their socks in Battlefield 2142 matches because their progress on the game depends on every minute of time they possess rather than their sense of urgency, reaction time, among other things.