21st Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Thread

[Faith]

The monkey's paw curls... your hotdog storm is in a loli game!

Spoiler

O_O what game is this O_O?!~

[BIL]

rainbow-cycling COMPLETED notice?

Which site you use to generate that rainbow @_@"... so pretty!!~

Ol' faithful ^w^ (that pattern is "Pastel Rainbow," searchable in the dropdown menu; the default "Rainbow" pattern is a bit dark for this forum's BG, imo; also, for the output code, select "vBulletin, Invision Powerboard" for this site. thank u for attending this informal ST! ;3)

[Whiskers]

O_O what game is this O_O?!~

Touhou 9 ~ Phantasmagoria of Flower View.

ZUN also did a similar game in his PC-98 Touhou era: Touhou 3 ~ Phantasmagoria of Dim.Dream. And another one recently: Touhou 19 ~ Unfinished Dream of All Living Ghost.

The gameplay is inspired by Twinkle Star Sprites. To my knowledge, it’s perfectly playable on MAME. So if you liked this sort of shmup, you’re living in the best timeline, Faith.

[R79]

You could sort of separate it into 1980s|1990s|2000s, or like a Famitsu Famicom poll, add another 20 on at the end just because

[Faith]

Ol' faithful ^w^ (that pattern is "Pastel Rainbow," searchable in the dropdown menu)

*bows* <3 Thank you so much >.<!!!~

Touhou 9 ~ Phantasmagoria of Flower View.

Ahhh nice nice!! Will definitely take a look! Looks very interesting! Thank you so much!~ *bows* <3

[Nifty]

Calling it there, may our souls be at ease

I'll get straight into working on the full results this week whilst I've got a bit of time

[Sengoku Strider]

Calling it there, may our souls be at ease

I'll get straight into working on the full results this week whilst I've got a bit of time

Thanks for handling it. I was low-key hoping for another extension and a bit more time to think things through, but I'll live.

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I ended up taking Thunder Force IV as my pick and left III for the honourable mentions. My thinking was as good as III/AC were, Gate of thunder was done by the same guys afterward and lately I kinda think it's the superior game so that made it in instead.

I also put DFK in over DOJ. I just don't have enough time logged on DOJ, but lately I keep picking up DFK. At some point down the road I may flip, but I don't mind that it's more accessible than DOJ.

I also put Alpha Mission II in at #25 as a dark horse. It was a very early Neo Geo title that never gets talked about but it's a unique game; the original AM was a Star Force/Star Soldier clone (the 'Alpha' refers to the Star Soldier-style letter pickups), games which themselves have a bunch of Xevious DNA. While the sequel builds on that it adds Slap Fight style ship add-on upgrades, uses hardware scaling all over, has appealing ship designs, a number of interesting systems and an incredible soundtrack.

[professor ganson]

Ton of votes for Thunder Dragon 2 this year, a game I had on my list many years ago. I guess the Arcade Archives release on Switch gave this game a nice bump. Gameplay wise, I get it: if you add autofire to the arcade version, you've got an enjoyable game for sure.

Ultimately, though, I found the graphics and music of the opening levels of Thunder Dragon 2 rather bland and repetitive. Personally, I think these factors hold it back from being truly top tier. I realize, though, that this is super subjective. I mean, I have a similar issue with the graphics in Gradius games. In spite of their enormous importance, I just can't get myself to put a Gradius game in my top 25. (The horizontal scrolling and environmental hazards also give me pause.)

[mycophobia]

i would have played waaay more thunder dragon 2 if it had more than the two songs lol. aesthetics matter!

[Sengoku Strider]

I've only watched video of it, and aside from the shooting the letters part I don't really get it.

[bobhasashotgun]

I liked the game at first, because in the early levels when the ships flew in from the side or bottom of the screen they came in slowly, and didn't have a hit box until they were fully on screen.

I thought wow, this game plays very fair! But no, that stops in the later levels. They come speeding in with active hitboxes. Mix that with lack of extends, and my struggle with it's bullet visibility, and I realized that Thunder Dragon 2 unfortunately isn't for me.

[reckon luck]

any game with voice clips gets extra credit

[bobhasashotgun]

That's true the voice clips are iconic. Maybe one day, for those alone, I'll give TD2 another go and "beat the hell out them."

[professor ganson]

aesthetics matter!

This is the reason that TATSUJIN just had to be on my list now that I've finally had a chance to play it. I LOVE the way this game looks and sounds.

Does anyone recommend seeking out the console ports now that the arcade version is available on Switch? The PCE port is the one i've had my eye on for years now, but the price is nuts!

[Lethe]

I've only watched video of it, and aside from the shooting the letters part I don't really get it.

It's meeting classic tate and caravan design in the middle. You're encouraged to be very aggressive and are given a zillion bombs to use as pragmatically as you like, then it's still a conventional non-gimmicky vert that just happens to include speedkill scoring. Dangun Feveron is Cave's take on the same concept ~5 years later if that helps contextualize it. I don't see it as a stone-cold classic or anything (for various reasons) but it remains pretty likable, and it's not surprising that it appeals to a broad stroke of people.

Something that came into my head recently: the mark of a great game is when people can love it for completely different reasons, or at least can express that through different facets. It happens to me personally a lot, for instance in these threads, I know people here who I often have choice overlap with are coming at it from perspectives that really aren't very similar to my own. The fact that can happen at all and we both end up rating the same thing is the beauty of it. Intermingling of context and culture, that's art, baby.

[bobhasashotgun]

This is the reason that TATSUJIN just had to be on my list now that I've finally had a chance to play it. I LOVE the way this game looks and sounds.

Funny enough, I never though Tatsujin (visually) looked very interesting, however I love the look of Gradius. Meanwhile, all the Thunder Dragon 2 fans always gush over how beautiful they find pixal art. I guess it's all subjective at the end of the day.

[mycophobia]

aesthetics matter!

This is the reason that TATSUJIN just had to be on my list now that I've finally had a chance to play it. I LOVE the way this game looks and sounds.

Does anyone recommend seeking out the console ports now that the arcade version is available on Switch? The PCE port is the one i've had my eye on for years now, but the price is nuts!

the pce port is kind of ass, but the mega drive port is decent, some jank aside. nothing beats the arcade tho

[Spydar05]

Just wanted to say thanks so much for this resource you all have provided by keeping this list going since 2002. So many people have found their favorite shmups through this forum, maybe more than you are aware. I want to vote in this last poll of yours. I noticed it might be weird if I just created an account out of nowhere and voted the last day (I thought I had one more day!) without saying anything. Of all of the shmups that I've played (~68 now), I found many of them from the top shmups of all time list on this forum. Some from Youtube videos of Electric Underground & another reviewer, and some from the Reddit. I've put a ton of time into making my list accurate since this is the last one you all are doing. Lmk if you have any questions and I hope you'll count my list even though it's last minute as most of these game are ones that I've got to experience because of this community.

[Herr Schatten]

It's meeting classic tate and caravan design in the middle.

This is what makes Thunder Dragon 2 absolutely unique. I know of no other game that mixes pre-designed hazards and attacks with frantic caravan-style "bring on new enemies as soon as the previous formation is destriyed" gameplay like that.

It should be right up my alley, but I have severe visibility issues with those damn flashing bullets, so whenever I give it a try, I usually rage-quit shortly after.

[professor ganson]

aesthetics matter!

This is the reason that TATSUJIN just had to be on my list now that I've finally had a chance to play it. I LOVE the way this game looks and sounds.

Does anyone recommend seeking out the console ports now that the arcade version is available on Switch? The PCE port is the one i've had my eye on for years now, but the price is nuts!

the pce port is kind of ass, but the mega drive port is decent, some jank aside. nothing beats the arcade tho

That's a shame about the PCE port, as I'm a true PCE fanboy. Now that I realize how cool Tatsujin is, it would be nice to have a physical copy. So, I may have to pick up a tangible version at some point.

[Steven]

aesthetics matter!

This is the reason that TATSUJIN just had to be on my list now that I've finally had a chance to play it. I LOVE the way this game looks and sounds.

Does anyone recommend seeking out the console ports now that the arcade version is available on Switch? The PCE port is the one i've had my eye on for years now, but the price is nuts!

If aesthetics matter, DON'T play the Bitwave version of Tatsujin because the sound effects and some of the music are super broken and they sound like shit, and not just for Tatsujin but for other games too. Use the PCB or MAME or something else, assuming Tatsujin works properly on MAME. I have no idea if it does.

And yes, the PC Engine and MD versions are kind of fucked. PC Engine version has amazing music, so it's definitely worth at least checking out the sound test on your PC Engine with an Everdrive/SSDS3/etc. It also has that weird alternative screen mode, which is kind of cool.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

This is the reason that TATSUJIN just had to be on my list now that I've finally had a chance to play it. I LOVE the way this game looks and sounds.

Does anyone recommend seeking out the console ports now that the arcade version is available on Switch? The PCE port is the one i've had my eye on for years now, but the price is nuts!

the pce port is kind of ass, but the mega drive port is decent, some jank aside. nothing beats the arcade tho

That's a shame about the PCE port, as I'm a true PCE fanboy. Now that I realize how cool Tatsujin is, it would be nice to have a physical copy. So, I may have to pick up a tangible version at some point.

You can play the PC Engine port of Tatsujin on a KriKzz Turbo Everdrive/Turbo Everdrive Pro flashcart setup without breaking the bank -- I do so myself. The BGM tunes are awesome, especially in stereo! And yes, you can play PCE Tatsujin in 512 x 240 high-resolution mode -- no other gaming console can do this resolution like the PCE/SuperGrafx/TurboGrafx-16 consoles can.

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The prototype version PC Engine port of Tatsujin is worth acquiring as a dedicated PCE Hu-Card reproduction cart alone (sold through Etsy -- just search for "repro PC Engine/TurboGrafx-16 cart" and you're good to go) -- quite interesting with all the different user-adjustable options/parameters before you start a serious gaming session indeed.
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PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Angry Hina]

I was surprised to see so many Radirgy entries. Didn't know its popular.

aesthetics matter!

This is the reason that TATSUJIN just had to be on my list now that I've finally had a chance to play it. I LOVE the way this game looks and sounds.

Does anyone recommend seeking out the console ports now that the arcade version is available on Switch? The PCE port is the one i've had my eye on for years now, but the price is nuts!

Never played the PCE-version but I cleared the MD only before the arcade one and after cleared the arcade one too this year, I would say, the MD-version has its moments. Some midbosses give you a chance, to fight them without bombs. Instead some savespots dont work anymore. This is possibly a good trade. But the 5th stage is even harder and the checkpoints can be harder too. That you get sent back to earlier checkpoints if you die too early after you respawn at your checkpoint, gives more thrills in stage 5 too

I would recommend it.

[jehu]

i would have played waaay more thunder dragon 2 if it had more than the two songs lol. aesthetics matter!

Our infirmity often takes fright at the inspired bold flights of genius, for lack of power to swoop down upon objects with such vast intelligence. There are defects which take root only in masterpieces; it is given only to certain geniuses to have certain defects. The oak has an unusual shape, gnarled branches, dark leaves, and hard, rough bark; but it is the oak.

And it is because of these qualities that it is the oak. If you would have a smooth trunk, straight branches, satiny leaves, apply to the pale birch, the hollow elder, the weeping willow; but leave the mighty oak in peace. Do not stone that which gives you shade.

Spoiler

read also: garegga, bully visibility, and rank

[professor ganson]

Never played the PCE-version but I cleared the MD only before the arcade one and after cleared the arcade one too this year, I would say, the MD-version has its moments. Some midbosses give you a chance, to fight them without bombs. Instead some savespots dont work anymore. This is possibly a good trade. But the 5th stage is even harder and the checkpoints can be harder too. That you get sent back to earlier checkpoints if you die too early after you respawn at your checkpoint, gives more thrills in stage 5 too

I would recommend it.

Awesome that you've been able to clear this brutal game! That's not in the cards for me, but I can see myself playing the various versions for years to come.

As for the reported sound issues in the Switch port: I don't have any previous experience with the game, so I'm blissfully ignorant.

[Angry Hina]

Then the MD version could be especially good for you, because the first 4 stages are all easier.

[professor ganson]

Then the MD version could be especially good for you, because the first 4 stages are all easier.

Good to know-- thanks!

[M.Knight]

Thunder Dragon 2 is always a blast thanks to the caravan spawning. It really deserves the votes. That "simple" mechanic adds a relentless pace to the levels and ensures you can never be bored nor be waiting for the devs to catch up to you. The waves themselves are not overly complex yet effective at making you move around and stuff, not to mention the items you can collect and the numerous bombs you can use in the process as if they were a dedicated secondary weapon. I wish this dynamic wave spawning model was more prominent in those old-school games because it really fits their simplicity and seems like an easy way to always give you something to do.

The game's aesthetics are very good. The pixel-art has that very NMK quality and style to it, and there's some steampunk influence in the designs themselves (especially the bosses) which works for me. Not to mention the groovy announcer. No visible characters in sight but he adds a lot of humanity regardless! I also didn't mind the low-ish number of tracks at all. There's some minor variations between the reused tracks and the music itself is just so good that it never gets old. I guess I'm the kind of player who can't stand crap music at all but can, on the flip-side, play games with like 1 or 2 tracks if they are really enjoyable.

Maybe I should have given it max points for meta reasons, but even if I adjusted my point spread for the meta, I couldn't resolve myself to go so far as to alter my game tiers/order depending on what has a good chance of getting ahead. Otherwise I suppose I could have bumped Shiki 2 as well, it looked like it had more votes than the other games in the series.

[Steven]

The announcer alone makes Thunder Dragon 2 a glorious game, mostly because it's time 2 put in more coins man.