Under Defeat HD

[Jeneki]

When I was first learning Under Defeat, the hardest thing for me was figuring out the hitbox location. Even though the game put a nice crosshair on it to let you know, it just wasn't where my brain wanted to believe it is. So some of the tighter patterns that are fired horizontally, while slow moving and shouldn't be that dangerous, I'd just fly into them anyway. I eventually figured it out though.

[DrTrouserPlank]

So how bad is this to 1cc the first loop without wanting to find something tall to jump from? I tried a long time ago and it didn't happen.

It's harder than every single CAVE game you've ever complained about, including Ketsui.

I'm not sure this in entirely accurate.

[wiNteR]

I do think it is a reasonable statement even if, quite reasonably, not everyone would have same experience or agree with it. However, on the very least, this is not different from my experience from well over a decade ago.

Apart from obvious exceptions I do think that UD can reasonably be regarded as harder than most cave 1-ALLs from a survival perspective***. For example, in 2010 I got a good number of 1CCs including UD. These games included ESP Rade, Mars Matrix, Ketsui, Dangun Feveron etc. I had to expend very similar effort on all these games. ESP Rade is definitely an easier one in the list but [at least for first 1CC] the "clipping" can definitely make it seem little harder than it is.

And yet, the game I had more difficult time than all of these was UD. Though partly it was because I just wanted to get over with a 1CC before the end of year, so I played full runs over and over [instead of spending some more time in practice]. This can easily lead to getting flustered.

Though, couple of years later, I re-visited the game for a 2-1 Start All and had a somewhat easier time [perhaps partly because of having more experience with the genre].

In general, to get a 1-All in this game I definitely think some practice familiarity/memorization with stage parts of level-4 and 5 really helps [on top of (relatively) quicker kills of bosses like stage-2,3,4 etc.]. In particular, I would suggest starting the game from 1-3 boss and seeing whether you can get a clear of the game from there before diving into a full run. I played on DC version and even though the DC version had a great practice mode, probably it didn't continue as soon you as ended the stage [if I am re-calling correctly]. If I played on emulation with saves this is definitely what I would have done.

*** There are few cave games that I haven't played at all [and hence don't know where they stand in terms of difficulty] so I can't comment about that.

edit: I remembered that DF clear was in early 2011 (not in 2010). Doesn't really change the broader point of the post though.

============================

I think there is also one more point worth adding. I feel that danmaku style games require skill that is somewhat more transferable compared to other style of games [also consider that number of danmaku games is higher]. Among the games that I mentioned above, hypothetically if I was playing them as a new game today I can definitely see having an easier time with something like Ketsui [even if I feel that I did fairly for my skills at that time]. That's because I have more experience with that kind of template and style of games now. However with something like dangun feveron for example, actually I am not quite certain I would necessarily be able to do better. That's because I already quite well for my skills at that time and haven't really played a heavy rhytm-like game like that since then [well psikyo games are also rhythmic to an extent but still not at the level of DF, especially when trying to chain].

What I wanted to say is that since UD is a "different" style of game with a tilted perspective and focus on quick kills. And this should be considered in the difficulty.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I'm not sure this in entirely accurate.

Unless you've complained about Futari Ultra or something recently, then yes, it's 100% accurate. This isn't even like a personal opinion with wiggle room kinda thing either. UD is a game with no extends whatsoever, fast sniper bullets, no spread on the main gun, relatively big bullets and hitbox compared to a danmaku game, only 1 subweapon with massive coverage (Cannon, it'll chase baddies well, particularly on New Order Mode, Rocket has AOE on the blast but charges slow and sometimes misses), and every boss has difficult gimmicks that must be learned in order to simply hit them aside from Stage 2 which is easy to hit but launches very, very fast bullets your way.

edit: I don't get where jehu's sarcasm in the next post is coming from but I suspect it has something to do with missing the fact that good ol' planky has spent a solid 15 years complaining every CAVE game on its default difficulty is "virtually impossible" despite our efforts to encourage and support him.

Anyways, I stand by my point that Under Defeat is really, really damn hard by arcade shmup standards. Maybe PinkSweets without triggering the infinite lives glitch is harder due to the last level? I dunno. Your average CAVE 1 loop clear is far more manageable.

[jehu]

I'm not sure this in entirely accurate.

Unless you've complained about Futari Ultra or something recently, then yes, it's 100% accurate. This isn't even like a personal opinion with wiggle room kinda thing either.

100% accurate, in fact. In fact, the existence of objectivity itself can be founded upon this premise. In fact, how dare you? In fact, don’t ever speak to me again you fucking idiot.

Spoiler

Delightful as always, Roo

[m.sniffles.esq]

I remember people whining about some kind of suicide scoring gimmick in Under Defeat, and all I could think was "If some maniac wants to try and complete Under Defeat with less lives, then they deserve all the extra points they want"

[DrTrouserPlank]

Yeah this isn't possible. Even leaving aside the difficulty in getting there, stage 5 is absolute shit on a stick. Even worse than I remember it being. Hopping spider tanks and the last boss are total bullshit. The wonky hitbox becomes a problem once you are really forced to start threading through things.

This is a 15 in the Japanese difficulty thread btw.... basically a free clear like everyone seems to think Futari is.....

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Yeah this isn't possible.

Classic Plank!

I don't agree with its wiki ranking either, I think it's a fair bit harder than a Mushi Original clear as you can't simply tap dodge or bomb to victory, and you don't get any enemies where kills will bullet clear. But the wiki rankings there apparently are updated nowadays, and it's a poll-based system, so it's just a rough guideline of difficulty, not necessarily exact. It's a very tough game all around for a 1 loop clear, let alone a 2-All clear.

The port does allow you to use the bonus ships which takes a lot of the edge off. Try it with the big helicopter that can use charge shots and auto fires homing missiles occasionally, it's quite effective.

[m.sniffles.esq]

So, my Play-Asia order finally crossed the great Pacific (a week before Amazon even said it was going to ship. Arriving with new joy-con stickers and everything)

Moly Hoses am I out of practice!

"I'll start with New Order, because I can do the first two levels of Arcade in my sleep"

"Okay... Maybe I'll do Arcade after all, just to get the feel again..."

"Okay... Maybe I just suck at this now..."

I remembered the key was not letting yourself get cornered--however--one gets cornered a lot more than I remembered.

(is it too late to blame input lag??)

[BulletMagnet]

(is it too late to blame input lag??)

It is never too late to blame input lag.

[EmperorIng]

The steam page is now live, though a release date has not been added. I am glad they didn't just quietly "forget" about it.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2869 ... ER_DEFEAT/

[AntiFritz]

I hope they improve the arcade modes accuracy, never bought the old 360/ps3 version but iirc it was pretty subpar compared to the widescreen mode right?

[sumdumgoy]

x

[Jeneki]

To be fair, "Controller Required" doesn't mean much on Steam these days, as it has a built-in remapping function. It's a little quirky to use the first time, but well worth learning for those games with no in-game options.

[dmk1198]

UK release Nxt month

[Starfighter]

Yeah, just saw this in the Upcoming section on eShop. February 6!

[Jucksalbe]

Any news about the (European) physical version?

[TransatlanticFoe]

They haven't set a date yet but there doesn't appear to be a special edition, just a standard retail one. Clear River Games are taking their time - Leynos 2 physical is still AWOL and Batsugun S-Tribute is apparently on again in "2025".

[m.sniffles.esq]

Man, I'm sorry if this makes me a philistine or whatever, but I fucking love the w i d e version of this game.

It looks really good. And personally, I have a real good time with all the sliding around you have to do. It succeeds in making it feel like an almost completely different game.

And did I mention it looks really good?

[Necronom]

Man, I'm sorry if this makes me a philistine or whatever, but I fucking love the w i d e version of this game

Yeah, I second that. The 360 version was worth it for New Order mode alone. I think G.Rev are very effective at adjusting a game to the platform instead of just porting it.
Would love to see Border Down with a new ultrawide arrange mode

[NeoStrayCat]

Man, I'm sorry if this makes me a philistine or whatever, but I fucking love the w i d e version of this game

Yeah, I second that. The 360 version was worth it for New Order mode alone. I think G.Rev are very effective at adjusting a game to the platform instead of just porting it.
Would love to see Border Down with a new ultrawide arrange mode

Same, Border Down really needs a modern/current gen port. Other than that, we're getting close to the digital overseas release soon. The Switch e-shop (and more likely on the other platforms) has it priced/mentioned at $20 US decently. (Similarly the same price it was back on the PS3/X360 version's overseas digital release at launch.)

[m.sniffles.esq]

Since this comes out tomorrow (for the squares), I may as well go ahead and report this, in case someone's purchase is dependent on it:

In New Order Mode, you CAN kill a cow
Yes, "cow" singular. You can't kill both. I guess they decided to try and make both pro-cow and cow hating players happy by splitting the difference.

So I guess if you're Morrissey, and can't abide any animal slaughter, hang on to your PS3/360 versions. However, if you're from Texas*, you're bound to be a little disappointed

*people's republic of Austin excluded, of course.

[FunktionJCB]

The game just launched on Steam:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2869 ... ER_DEFEAT/

Nice that it has a launch discount.

[BIL]

Since this comes out tomorrow (for the squares), I may as well go ahead and report this, in case someone's purchase is dependent on it:

Thank you for your service, you and Lem are thread MVPs!

[PC Engine Fan X!]

On the USA region Nintendo eShop, Under Defeat HD appeared at 6:00am PST today, 2/05/2025, and is available for $17.99 usd (with a 20% off instant discount applied at the time of purchase as the MSRP is originally listed at $19.99 usd). UD-HD is a 336mb d/l at best and has on-line leaderboard support for all three rankings of: New Order, New Order Plus and Arcade.

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The Steam port of Under Defeat is also priced at $17.99 usd with a 20% off discount (whereas it'll revert back to it's original MSRP of $19.99 once it's over). UD-HD runs just fine on a Steam Deck setup without the need to use a Proton booter necessary and is a 487.29mb d/l. It, too, has on-line leaderboard support for all three modes: New Order, New Order Plus and Arcade. Default resolutions for UD-HD include: 1280 x 720, 1920 x 1080 and 2560 x 1440.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[jandrogo]

Is there support for 4:3 and tate mode? What resolution are supported if it’s possible?

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Is there support for 4:3 and tate mode? What resolution are supported if it’s possible?

For jandrogo,

Yes, with the Steam port of UD-HD, there's support for tate but it'll only support either 16:9 and 16:10 aspect ratio monitors. The same default resolutions listed in the Options >> Screen sub-menu: 1280 x 720 (for Steam Deck), when in docked mode, then the higher resolutions of 1920 x 1080 and 2560 x 1440 are possible with a dedicated gaming monitor.

Plus, there's the cool option of selecting "no wallpaper background" functionality when in tate mode -- how cool is that? G-Rev has certainly thought about the hard-core stg crowd with the wallpaper being turned off when in tate mode indeed (when there's really no need to "jazz up" the extra real estate space, edge-wise, afforded of both those 16:9 & 16:10 based widescreen gaming monitors with useless wallpapers to begin with).

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[sumdumgoy]

x

[m.sniffles.esq]

Perhaps this belongs in the confession thread, but I amused myself with the "what's the input lag for steam vs switch vs playstation vs steamswitchstation? I NEED to know before spending $18!!" crowd for like 20 minutes while riding the bus.

"I have the steam version clocked at eight seconds of lag"
"EIGHT SECONDS? What's the FPS????"
"60"
"That's 480 frames!!!!!!!!!!!"
"Yeah... Higher is better, right? I'm not sure I'm doing this right"

To my credit, I tried to say "Y'know the ps3/360 version? It's exactly the same" but this wasn't deemed acceptable, so I resorted to the above.

[Klatrymadon]

Bought the Steam port and have been messing around with New Order+ mode, which I hadn't played before. I assume the 'Warning' meter is a rank meter, but what fills it up and what determines when the scrolling slows or stops entirely, etc? Cheers!

Edit: actually, is it just warning of scripted ambush spots that have more enemies than usual?