Xbox 360: Mushihimesama Futari 1.5 (November 2009)

[Skykid]

"Do I need 1200 more points more frustration" with a game I seem to be failing at pretty badly.

I'm failing pretty badly at it myself. I doubt I'll ever see a 1CC. But for me it was money well spent, and I prefer BL to 1.5.

If you're going for a BL survival run you'll definitely get it man, keep practicing. It's one of the friendlier Cave games out there.

[Thjodbjorn]

Bolstered by the positive words here, I gave it another go (I've been playing mostly other games lately), and while I still only got to stage three in BL original, I out did my previous high score, and then again. So that's encouraging! (only 69 mil and change, but not too bad for me).

It's also my first time playing since I decided to switch to a stick. I still have some acclimation to do, but it definitely felt better.

Someone earlier mentioned stage threes being kind of tough traditionally? So that's not just me thinking it? Daioujou's stage three kills me completely, but it might be one of my favorite stages ever.

[Drachenherz]

Bolstered by the positive words here, I gave it another go (I've been playing mostly other games lately), and while I still only got to stage three in BL original, I out did my previous high score, and then again. So that's encouraging! (only 69 mil and change, but not too bad for me).

It's also my first time playing since I decided to switch to a stick. I still have some acclimation to do, but it definitely felt better.

Someone earlier mentioned stage threes being kind of tough traditionally? So that's not just me thinking it? Daioujou's stage three kills me completely, but it might be one of my favorite stages ever.

Yeah, BL Stage 3 is a real fucker, especially the part after mid-boss with the pill bugs (don't let them shoot to much!) and of course, the boss. He's one tough cookie. Stage 4 and Stage 4 Boss is considerably easier than stage 3. Stage 5 is pretty hectic, but if you bomb enough and lower your rank, it is manageable.

Go for it, you'll make it! Futari BL was my first "real" 1cc too, and I started getting into shmups seriously only last octobre. You can do it, don't get discouraged.

[8 1/2]

I've actually thought for years that Cave deliberately swaps stage and 3 and 4 in their titles. It actually makes a lot of sense when you consider mapping out the pacing of a game. Most of the time, you don't really want a straight curve in difficulty that ramps at a perfect pitch across the whole game. You need those peaks and valleys to create a continual cycle of tension and accomplishment. Making 3 harder than 4 gives you that perfect mid-run victory when you make it through, and gives you fuel to coast on into the often more-manageable stage 4, before finally being dropped into hell in stage 5 for the final push. Coming out of stage 3 in 1.5 Original with all my lives intact always give me the feeling that the 1cc is imminent and I need only continue to execute my game to come out on top.

BL Original is a pretty reasonable place for a first 1CC. Stick with it and you'll have it in no time.

[dan76]

Any ideas on how to improve?

Try a few runs with Abnormal Palm. His laser is really powerful from the start and will take down larger enemies and bosses quickly. If you're already using him... then I guess it comes down to memorization. I think you can get through the first two stages on twitch gaming reflexes, but in stage 3 it's not enough. You kind of have to know when and where larger enemies will appear in order to take them down before they get a chance to fill the screen with guff. You have to meet them head on.

Also, don't feel bad for bombing to get through tough parts of the game. It's better to reach stage 4 by bombing rather than constantly dying on stage 3 and giving up. Stage 4 and 5 are too good to miss.

[Thjodbjorn]

I'm still working on my bombing reflex. Too often I will die with two or even three bombs in stock.

[drunkninja24]

Yep, probably the most obvious, but helpful piece of advice is: don't be afraid to bomb. Worst case scenario, it's always worse to lose a life than a bomb. Don't be afraid to let loose if you need to.

[Drachenherz]

Yep, probably the most obvious, but helpful piece of advice is: don't be afraid to bomb. Worst case scenario, it's always worse to lose a life than a bomb. Don't be afraid to let loose if you need to.

This. Exactly this.

Thanks to letting go of my fear of bombing, I managed to get the 1cc in BL with Recco.

[Naryoril]

my problem with bombing:

i'm often a split second too late with it. most of the time when i die (and most of the time with 2 or 3 bombs left) i do so while pressing the bomb button
and i guess this comes from the fact that i want to try to dodge a bullet pattern if possible, for training purposes. unfortunately when i decide "i won't make it" i'm a little bit too late for bombing

[JoJo]

my problem with bombing:

i'm often a split second too late with it. most of the time when i die (and most of the time with 2 or 3 bombs left) i do so while pressing the bomb button
and i guess this comes from the fact that i want to try to dodge a bullet pattern if possible, for training purposes. unfortunately when i decide "i won't make it" i'm a little bit too late for bombing

I had this problem on the 360 for a long time until I discovered the reason, my samsung TV was not on game mode and I had delays between button input and seeing the results.

If you have an HDTV, see if it has a game mode and if not, turn off all Image Processing from the menus. You should see the delay drop.

I went from only getting stage 3 in BL Original to Final Boss.

[JOW]

I've actually thought for years that Cave deliberately swaps stage and 3 and 4 in their titles. It actually makes a lot of sense when you consider mapping out the pacing of a game. Most of the time, you don't really want a straight curve in difficulty that ramps at a perfect pitch across the whole game. You need those peaks and valleys to create a continual cycle of tension and accomplishment.

...I always thought the 'Stage 3 wall' was designed to eat your coins while you attempt to progress past it - i.e. it's implemented for the benefit of the arcade operators.

I totally agree with your analysis though and that it is in fact a Good Thing - it's another reason why the death of the genre in the Arcade would probably lead to the end of this flavour and quality of game as we know it

@DTP: I was also frustrated by MF 1.5 when I got it - the Stage 3 Boss still gives me problems now. However, I picked up BL as soon it came out and believe me it is a far easier 1CC than 1.5 Original and I enjoyed it all the more for that reason. There is more slow down and your weapons are more powerful so they take down the large enemies and bosses quickly (thus avoiding the tougher patterns).

+1 on the bombing too. I tend to use them as a crutch for difficult sections until I learn them and over time my bomb usage naturally comes down.
There's no need to be 'snobbish' about using them - these games are tough and you need all the help you can get!

[DrTrouserPlank]

I've decided I don't like this game.

[Special World]

I've decided I don't like this game.

Just because it's too hard?

You're not gonna have a very good time with most shooters, then.

[DrTrouserPlank]

I've decided I don't like this game.

Just because it's too hard?

You're not gonna have a very good time with most shooters, then.

There's a difference though between something being hard, and something being designed to be virtually impossible and additionally require an extraordinary amount of luck to get through as well.

I've lost count of the number of times I've said "F'ing ridiculous!" whilst playing this game after being washed off the screen by an undodgeable barrage of random shots that are never the same twice.

[Drachenherz]

I've decided I don't like this game.

Just because it's too hard?

You're not gonna have a very good time with most shooters, then.

There's a difference though between something being hard, and something being designed to be virtually impossible and additionally require an extraordinary amount of luck to get through as well.

I've lost count of the number of times I've said "F'ing ridiculous!" whilst playing this game after being washed off the screen by an undodgeable barrage of random shots that are never the same twice.

Hmm, are we really playing the same game?

Yeah, it is hard, but I haven't been in an unfair situation in the countless hours I have played it.

[apple arcade]

Today I beat the first stage of Ultra. I feel rather accomplished!

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

I've decided I don't like this game.

Just because it's too hard?

You're not gonna have a very good time with most shooters, then.

There's a difference though between something being hard, and something being designed to be virtually impossible and additionally require an extraordinary amount of luck to get through as well.

I've lost count of the number of times I've said "F'ing ridiculous!" whilst playing this game after being washed off the screen by an undodgeable barrage of random shots that are never the same twice.

Nah man, I got through every tight spot in the game at least once unharmed and I daresay not because I was lucky - and I'm pretty mediocre at shooters (I'm talking about Maniac here, there's no way I could even get to stage 2 in God mode). It's all about bullet herding and solving puzzles, once you get the hang of that you'll progress quickly.

[StarCreator]

There's a difference though between something being hard, and something being designed to be virtually impossible and additionally require an extraordinary amount of luck to get through as well.

If luck was that big a factor, there would be no 1CCs.

I've lost count of the number of times I've said "F'ing ridiculous!" whilst playing this game after being washed off the screen by an undodgeable barrage of random shots that are never the same twice.

The barrages are generally either fixed (they happen the exact same way every time), or are based on your current position, with 1-2 bullets sent to your current location and the rest sent in angles relative to that. There's nothing random about it.

A lot of barrages can also be prevented from ever being shot by killing enemies before they have a chance to shoot them.

[phrenzee]

I've decided I don't like this game.

Don't.

Leave it alone for a while. Play something different and improve your skills in that game. You may just find that you also improved your Futari skills at the same time. I know I did. I was in the exact position as you, getting to stage 3 over and over. Quite a few times I managed to waste 4 lives on that stage, and then I quit for a month or so. Playing Crimzon Clover, Espgaluda, DDP DOJ and Ketsui instead. When I started Futari again, I found myself getting past stage 3 and 4 quite often, even getting as far as the final boss a few times. I still have to beat it, but I'm confident that'll happen sooner or later and that'll be my first 1CC after having been into shooters for more than two years.

Soldier on, dude

[Special World]

I've decided I don't like this game.

Just because it's too hard?

You're not gonna have a very good time with most shooters, then.

There's a difference though between something being hard, and something being designed to be virtually impossible and additionally require an extraordinary amount of luck to get through as well.

I've lost count of the number of times I've said "F'ing ridiculous!" whilst playing this game after being washed off the screen by an undodgeable barrage of random shots that are never the same twice.

They're not random. Nothing in the game is random.

It's a very fair game, and extremely doable as far as scrolling shooters are concerned. Just take a break and come back to it. I'm adamant about this, because I consider it to be the most fun scrolling shooter of all time. If you don't like it, then fine. But don't dislike it because it's too hard.

[chempop]

Learn to herd. Instead of reacting to enemies shooting at you, position yourself strategically so you create gaps in between the patterns. It takes skill and lots of practice, but it is KEY.

The only times Futari pisses me off is when I'm doing fine, weaving and dodging like a mad man, totally in the zone, and then the slowdown shifts and a stray bullet seems to accelerate without any warning directly into my line of movement. I'm quite used to CAVE's way of implementing slowdown as part of their games, but in Futari I find it particularly jolting and yes, sometimes a tad unfair

[Naryoril]

is there somewhere a thorough explanation of bullet herding? strategies and different techniques? i know it doesn't really belong here, but while the topic already is at it...

[8 1/2]

Basically, enemies generally fire at where you just were if you're moving about the screen. There's a latency between an enemy locking onto you and firing.

So, you can beat the system essentially by positioning yourself high on the screen and baiting their fire away from you. Generally, it's a good idea to move up a bit on the screen as a stage begins, and then either to the far left or right. As enemies fire, move down and in the opposite direction. So if you're on the left, move down-right, and if you're on the right move down-left.

As you move, you'll notice that the stream of enemy bullets begins to break up. Instead of a constant flow, you've now forced the enemy to break their fire up into various segments, thus creating gaps in the curtain. As you reach the middle/bottom of the screen, begin to move up and to the opposite side. The enemies will begin firing at your new position. When you feel cornered, move again down to the middle, and up to the opposite side. The gaps you created earlier will aid in your escape. Using this swooping "U" shape pattern is a basic core of bullet herding.

Later you'll come to invent more patterns, but the basic side-to-side, high-to-low should help you to survive in pretty much every Cave game, and many others as well.

Most of all just keep at it. Every member of this forum has been stumped by a game before. It's all about lots of practice.

[austere]

There's a difference though between something being hard, and something being designed to be virtually impossible and additionally require an extraordinary amount of luck to get through as well.

A hard game is virtually impossible for some people. You don't want to be one of those people! Futari also does not require any luck at all ... except perhaps at birth.

I've lost count of the number of times I've said "F'ing ridiculous!" whilst playing this game after being washed off the screen by an undodgeable barrage of random shots that are never the same twice.

You created the undodgeable barrage, the shots seem random due to your own uncontrolled motion. Your motion never seems to be the same twice and as such, your pattern recognition fails to understand the barrages.

Relax, open your eyes and go at it again. A wonderful game awaits you.

[Special World]

When I play, I tend to make little infinity symbols all over the screen. It kinda works out that way from herding bullets and then coming back around above the last of the bullets I just herded.

[Drachenherz]

When I play, I tend to make little infinity symbols all over the screen. It kinda works out that way from herding bullets and then coming back around above the last of the bullets I just herded.

How do you make them? With a permanent marker or with something that you can wash away afterwards?



j/k, I know what you mean.

[JoJo]

Just to add to the stage 3 told

Holy f**k this stage is ABSOLUTELY EVIL, it's DESIGNED to catch you off guard at a calmish moment with enemies that fire very late at the bottom of the screen or confuse you with the slowdown to boost bullets at you at the wrong moment, and it waits till half way through the stage to start screwing with you, wrecking all that lovely amber you picked up from the DENSE barrage of it earlier. If Original ranks you with dynamic difficulty (not sure if it does) then it's THIS point that the game decides you've had too much fun, time to get evil. I keep telling myself to BOMB if I have to, but you'll always......ALWAYS get caught out in that psychological trap for a while. I cannot wait till I clear it without dying just to see the amber bonuses I get (I'm playing for scoring)

[Depth Charge]

I find that if you can take the rolley polley (pill bugs?) out as quickly as possible near the end of stage 3 its a bit easier. Still kind of a pain in the ass with the slow down and speed up in that part.

[CptRansom]

I deal with the second half of stage 3 Original by speedkilling the bigger targets (those grasshopper thingies that pop out from under the rocks, the big beetles, and the bugs that shoot the long needle-shaped fans) with laser and cleaning up with shot (yes, I completely disregard score for this section because I figure even a small gain on my counter is better than bombing it away or dying). The little bugs aren't difficult to deal with if you're herding bullets correctly, IMO.

[Drachenherz]

I find that if you can take the rolley polley (pill bugs?) out as quickly as possible near the end of stage 3 its a bit easier. Still kind of a pain in the ass with the slow down and speed up in that part.

This. It's important to memorize where the pillbugs appear and take them out ASAP. Also noteworthy: Those big bastard-bugs which allready appear at the beginning of the stage. Kill them to cancel bullets on the screen. Those big bastard-bugs usually appear just before new wave of pillbugs, time their elimination right to clear the screen of some pill-bug-spray-bullet pattern to make killing the pillbugs themselves easier.

Woah, I once had an adrenline-pumping experience at this part of the level... I ran out of bombs and managed to no-miss this part of the stage. I was thrilled.

The boss though... Killed me in an instant. I just hate this mean mothereffing son of a giant spider.

Edit: Ransomly Ninja'd