Analogue 3D - new N64 console

[kamiboy]

Actually if you read the fine print at the bottom of their product page it says this:

"Resolution is 10x the majority of games at 320. Some games display in 640."

Which leaves me a bit confused, 240 can be perfectly scaled to 2160 by 9x, so not sure how they arrived at 10x. By resolution I think they are talking about the output resolution from the console, not the render resolution of the N64. They do make a big deal out of their CRT emulation, so I think they are taking the original render resolution of a game 320x240 in most cases, and doing their scaling CRT emulation process to arrive at 10x output resolution at 4K.

Also, why does it come with Wifi? Can't be just for software updates. Gods know they have few enough of those for their products. If it was for some sort of multiplayer functionality they would have bragged about it, so it is a slightly odd addition.

[neorichieb1971]

Maybe there will be so many updates, its better to have WIFI?

[Josh128]

Hopefully it will at least allow an optional bump to 480p. Goes a long ways towards making N64 games look better on today's tv technology.

It wont.

[TooBeaucoup]

I already have a Retro GEM in my N64, so this product isn't for me. However, it's still pretty cool. I'm definitely going to watch ebay in the few weeks after launch because I'm willing to bet there are going to be tons of them dumped on there. There are a lot of people who haven't played an N64 natively in 20 years and have only experienced it or its games on an emulator or through a virtual store. I have a feeling there are going to be a lot of people thinking back on this system with their nostalgia glasses on, not realizing just how bad the N64 actually looks now. LOL! This isn't going to be rendering in 4k. We're getting 240p upscaled to 4k, and a blurry mess is a blurry mess. There's not much fixing that.

[neorichieb1971]

I managed to get one preordered.

That was nice. Was only a 3 min wait. Will be interesting to see how quickly they sell out (if at all).

The controller links to amazon.com, which says its sold out. But I don't think its up yet, surely can't be sold out that quick.

[kamiboy]

I forgot about the pre-order and was reminded 40 minutes in. Was kind of debating whether I should even get one or wait until they inevitably do coloured limited edition releases, but got a white one in the end.

No issues or wait time. Either they have plenty units to sell or there isn’t that much interest. The Duo has been available steadily since launch, and the regular Pockets are usually in stock as well.

Perhaps they are moving away from the artificial scarcity model and instead shifting focus to limited edition colours.

[LDigital]

White does appear to have sold out. I fomo preordered one but will see what happens with impressions down the line. The Duo was a massive dissapointment so I hope this turns out better

[Hoagtech]

Im getting into this late. What do you people expect the core compatibility to be like for the 220k LE Altera Cyclone 10GX chip?

Are we going to get 5th gen console support or even OpenFPGA cores already ported to the old cyclone chip?

[kamiboy]

The Analogue 3D doesn't have openFPGA for whatever reason. So The only thing it will run is N64 carts via stock firmware and N64 roms via the inevitable jailbreaked firmware. Seems openFPGA is just an Analogue Pocket thing for Analogue. I am not sure why they make the distinction, on one hand it would be a great feature to get access to all those community made cores, then again it would cannibalise sales of their other systems.

Also since the N64 is on a new platform all the Pocket cores wouldn't work out of the box and would have to be ported anyway.

If the core in the A3D can run N64 it should be perfectly capable of PS1 and Saturn as well. From what I understand on the MISTER the N64 was barely squeezed in, while PS1 and Saturn were less challenging. If Analogue would open the A3D up for developers it would be a very nice MISTER alternative, and with 4K output.

[Bassa-Bassa]

One less platform to get open-source core devs involved with, then. There's enough pointless diversification already.

[bobrocks95]

I figured their plan was to switch from bespoke console reproductions to an all-in-one system with OpenFPGA, but really that's the Pocket + Dock now and looks like they'll be sticking with individual home consoles (with the ugly AnalogueOS slapped on top instead of unique menus).

If you're 100% planning on shipping a PS1 system in the future, why allow your N64 system to run PS1 games?

[orange808]

Still says no emulation on their promotion materials.

That's bollocks. That's such a big fat load of bullshit.

[Hoagtech]

I figured their plan was to switch from bespoke console reproductions to an all-in-one system with OpenFPGA, but really that's the Pocket + Dock now and looks like they'll be sticking with individual home consoles (with the ugly AnalogueOS slapped on top instead of unique menus).

If you're 100% planning on shipping a PS1 system in the future, why allow your N64 system to run PS1 games?

That's disheartening to say the least but if people expect a jailbroken firmware and the cyclone is exploited. Won't that just open the doors to FPGA core ports anyways from the Homebrew scene?

I recall the OpenFPGA core ports on the Pocket were done outside the Analogue team anyways by homebrew scene.

I'd like to think the popularity of the N64 might spur a scene on the 3D as the Duo was untouched. Here's hoping

[bobrocks95]

I figured their plan was to switch from bespoke console reproductions to an all-in-one system with OpenFPGA, but really that's the Pocket + Dock now and looks like they'll be sticking with individual home consoles (with the ugly AnalogueOS slapped on top instead of unique menus).

If you're 100% planning on shipping a PS1 system in the future, why allow your N64 system to run PS1 games?

That's disheartening to say the least but if people expect a jailbroken firmware and the cyclone is exploited. Won't that just open the doors to FPGA core ports anyways from the Homebrew scene?

I recall the OpenFPGA core ports on the Pocket were done outside the Analogue team anyways by homebrew scene.

I'd like to think the popularity of the N64 might spur a scene on the 3D as the Duo was untouched. Here's hoping

Don't believe there's any simple way to load additional cores. The SuperNT jailbreak just lets you run SNES ROMs for example. OpenFPGA runs on a completely separate FPGA than the main one for the Pocket.

[Atariboy]

Hopefully it will at least allow an optional bump to 480p. Goes a long ways towards making N64 games look better on today's tv technology.

It wont.

We'll see.

[fernan1234]

The Tink4K already does more than well enough to make N64 upscaled look nice on modern displays. I expect this console to do similarly well.

But really though, if N64 is dear to you it's worth having even just a small CRT around for it.

[Gunstar]

It seems it at least will have a performance buff due to better ram/ram setup. I think the iQue player had better performance over the regular N64 due to this?


A 480p rendered resolution option would have been an instant buy for me, some games look spectacular at x2 res without exceeding what's reasonable for that era of art assets.

[Guspaz]

With the performance stuff, if it does 480p output, I'll buy it. If it doesn't, I won't.

It might be unlikely it'll do 480p, but it's my condition, I don't like the N64 enough to buy it at 240p.

[orange808]

With the performance stuff, if it does 480p output, I'll buy it. If it doesn't, I won't.

It might be unlikely it'll do 480p, but it's my condition, I don't like the N64 enough to buy it at 240p.

It depends. We play the games, right?

480p won't make low polys, muddy textures, neanderthal lighting, and ancient particles look good. I don't understand the fascination.

If the machine delivers accurate emulation, proper speed (assuming it's not always locked to 60Hz), and optional enhanced frame rates, this emulator console might be worth a second look. MiSTer is never going to be highly accurate.

There's a lot of room for accuracy improvement in N64 emulation and it would great to see a jump in authenticity combined with enhanced frame rates. I suppose a lack of slowdown would make it a little faster, but wouldn't it be nice to get enhanced frame rates without overclocking side effects? It would also be nice if the machine was eligible for speed runs with the enhanced frame rates disabled.

We'll see what the final product looks like. If it's just the same N64 emulation we're seeing everywhere else and it doesn't qualify for speed runs, it's just another old emu box--with a cart slot and a huge price tag.

I'm pretty sure GroovyMiSTer Retroarch can already give you a pretty 480p with reasonable playable accuracy. Should be able to use a supersampling and downscale to 480p or 480i to stay inside the bandwidth limits. There's no way the Analogue 3d will look better than that.

[Guspaz]

It's not a matter of the value the machine offers, it's a matter of, I'm a notorious N64 hater, and that's the conditions that'd get me to say "Hmm, this is neat enough that I'll buy it anyway."

[Atariboy]

I don't want 480p output. But an internal 480p rendering resolution as an option would be quite attractive in helping the N64's polygons make the transfer to modern television technology.

That said, all their fancy filters and such just might make it moot if they come even close to matching Analogue's hype. But for something like a basic emulator, jumping up to 480p for internal rendering goes a long ways towards helping the N64 look good away from a CRT while still being low enough to not create a large disparity with textures, fonts, sprites, etc.

[evil_ash_xero]

They still haven't added DAC support to the Pocket or the Duo. I can tolerate it not being on the Pocket, but I only bought the Duo to play on a CRT.
Until they do something about that, I'm not interested in any of their future consoles.

As for N64, all the games that I really like are on Wii VC, and look a lot better. Also, there's the MiSTer, whose N64 core has come a long way.
I can see this being cool for people who play on a panel TV, though.

I'd like to support Analogue more, but they don't seem to want to keep their promises.

[kamiboy]

It is indeed very unfortunate how their products are so lacking on the software front when the hardware is so good. The mismatch is quite frustrating and it really does feel like they are severely undermanned to provide adequate software support for their hardware.

This is why their stepping away from OpenFPGA is so disappointing, opening their hardware platforms up to outside software development would go a long way to alleviate their own shortcomings on that front.

I bet the community could have implemented DAC support within a few week of the release of any of their hardware if they had been given the opportunity. Hell, people developed their own DAC for the Pocket, with full support from several community cores because they got tired of waiting for Analogue to do the same. But it seems Analogue is content to let years go by without promised features while their hardware collects dust.

[fernan1234]

If this could render at 480p (and output 480i) like Wii VC but with less corners cut on the emulation would make me buy one to use on a CRT.

[neorichieb1971]

With masking effects and 4k output will the rendering output really be that important?

[fernan1234]

With masking effects and 4k output will the rendering output really be that important?

Yeah it makes a big difference. Even on a CRT it does, and even more so when you're blowing it up multiple times up to 4K.

[Guspaz]

I mean, when I say I want 480p, I mean 480p rendering with 4K output.

[Lord of Pirates]

With masking effects and 4k output will the rendering output really be that important?

The higher the better.

[neorichieb1971]

I think this project might make them or break them.

For me personally, if I was building a FPGA N64 the first thing on the piece of note paper would be beat what products are out there in physical form, like HDMI mods. Obviously in the digital realm you'll have some licence to tinker with internal rendering resolution but I don't know what this FPGA kit is capable of.

Judging by the marketing words and the words here, there is a gap between whats promised and what is given. Which is a bit worrying considering its a preorder item with FOMO all over it.

I am in the camp that just wants an N64 experience that is plug n play and sits near the top experiences minus emulation. Its $250 I think there is a chance its the best $250 option?

[orange808]

It has to do emulator tricks, but we need some convoluted lie to pretend it's not emulation--and if it is an accurate hardware replacement emulator it's not good enough.

Got it.