M2 Toaplan collection

[Steven]

Lol see what I mean? Maybe I won't forget to go buy it this time, but I'm also not really that excited about buying yet another copy of this game. I have 4 of them already...

[hamfighterx]

Hey Steven - somewhat obscure question, but do you happen to have any insight on the quality of the Wii Virtual Console release of Gleylancer?

I'm not nearly familiar enough with the game to really tell, but I pulled out the Wii recently and have it on there (was the first place I ever played it, actually).I've always been under the impression that Wii VC was generally quite good for accuracy and not adding significant lag, but curious if anyone has thoughts.

[Steven]

Never played it. I think the only Wii Virtual Console thing I have is Super Metroid.

[bobrocks95]

Hey Steven - somewhat obscure question, but do you happen to have any insight on the quality of the Wii Virtual Console release of Gleylancer?

I'm not nearly familiar enough with the game to really tell, but I pulled out the Wii recently and have it on there (was the first place I ever played it, actually).I've always been under the impression that Wii VC was generally quite good for accuracy and not adding significant lag, but curious if anyone has thoughts.

Appropriately enough, M2 did the Genesis/MD emulator for Wii Virtual Console, so I'd imagine it runs fairly well.

[Augemitbutter]

I'm interested in trying Gleylancer on PS5 just to see how the input lag is compared to Switch, but not interested enough to actually buy it at its normal price. It is like 50% off relatively frequently, but I always forget to actually buy it.

PS5/PS4 was perfectly playable for me when i tried them both from beginning to end. Original hardware + CRT was more fun/authentic when i switched over right after playing the ports. It shouldn't stop anybody from trying the PS version.

[OmegaFlareX]

I've always been under the impression that Wii VC was generally quite good for accuracy and not adding significant lag, but curious if anyone has thoughts.

The only shmup I had for VC was Soldier Blade, and it was unplayable. Way too much input lag. I'm not sure if it was the PCE core Nintendo used, my TV (a 1st or 2nd-gen LCD that lacks a game mode) sucking at scaling low-res signals, the wiimotes (that was early bluetooth, right?), a combination of those, or something else. But it was really bad. I don't recall the other VC games I had being quite that dire, but it's entirely possible they all were and it was harder to notice in non-shmups.

[bobrocks95]

my TV (a 1st or 2nd-gen LCD that lacks a game mode)

If I'm remembering early LCDs right or if Rock Band 1's calibration defaults were anywhere close, that was probably 100ms right there

[gbaplayer]

When will we hear something from M2 from the TGS this year?

[Ice Beam]

When will we hear something from M2 from the TGS this year?

They aren't on the exhibitor's list, so never.

[gbaplayer]

Is there a date for their next livestream?

[gbaplayer]

Any news on that?

[Sumez]

Looking forward to see this thread dragging itself along for the next five years as absolutely no news drop on M2 ever doing anything Toaplan related ever again.

Memories of that "Cave are/aren't dead" thread that would consistently resurface on at least an annual basis since the release of SDOJ.

[samspot]

M2 has become the gold standard for porting old games. It seems they only work on shmups when there is no other work lined up.

[hamfighterx]

I find it interesting that M2 have gone with the same kind of portmanteau-ish naming approach with their newly announced Operation Night Strikers that they used for the three Toaplan volumes (as well as the same basic two-game format).

Also wonder what else is out there that they're working on that we don't know about, after the surprise reveal and release of the Castlevania DS collection (and Haunted Castle full remake), and now this recent and fairly surprising announcement of the new Taito two-pack. Maybe working with Nintendo again for some sort of Virtual Console/NSO or similar for the new system?

It does feel like there's a very real prospect of not getting more M2 Toaplan, especially considering Embracer and their influence. And also the games, that once felt lost before M2 picked up the licenses... and since then, having a ton of ports all over the place: Evercade, the Bitwave PC releases, the Amusement Arcade Toaplan mobile, Egret and Astro City V minis, even the Batsugun S-Tribute release. The only thing that gives me hope, until hearing an announcement of SOMETHING, is the fact that they actually showed Tatsujin and Out Zone at TGS 2023 with ShotTriggers branding, even if it was positioned as just an exhibition of the games.

[Sumez]

M2 has become the gold standard for porting old games. It seems they only work on shmups when there is no other work lined up.

That already sounds like a bronze standard to me, at best

[samspot]

M2 has become the gold standard for porting old games. It seems they only work on shmups when there is no other work lined up.

That already sounds like a bronze standard to me, at best

I meant ports in general, not specific to shmups. For every Castlevania Dominous collection thats one less shmup port for us.

[Jonpachi]

I think that’s reductive. M2’s contract work keeps them going, which means many more shmup ports than we’d otherwise get. If they insisted on only doing Toaplan Garage releases they’d be gone quickly.

[hamfighterx]

It's also not as if M2 hasn't been continually working on non-STG stuff throughout all of their ShotTriggers/Toaplan releases. They've successfully released 10 self-published console ShotTriggers/Toaplan Arcade Garage volumes since the series started in 2016. In that same time, they have also done a lot of contract work.

Just off the top of my head: Sega Ages for Switch, Mega Drive on Nintendo Switch Online, PCE/TG16 and Genesis minis, Mana Collection, Legend of Mana remaster, multiple Castlevania compilations, Contra collection, the most recent Metal Gear Solid collection (NES games and MGS1), Namco Museum FC volumes for Switch, Ryu ga Gotoku series arcade games for Sega, Mega Man X collection for Capcom... And of course, the shooter stuff they've done for Taito: Ray'z collection (basically a ShotTriggers release to me), G Darius HD, the new Operation Wolf/Night Striker pack, etc.

So yeah, they are more than familiar enough with balancing the need to pay the bills with this kind of contract work, while also consistently releasing their own self-published stuff.

I feel like it's more likely that the explanation for no M2 Toaplan in 2024 comes down to a combination of:
(1) a busier 2023 for ShotTriggers (2 releases, with Zero Fire and then DOJ right at the end of the year in December), along with the pseudo-ShotTriggers Ray'z collection,
(2) some projects we don't yet know about taking more of their time (would anyone be shocked if the new Nintendo system launched with some new emulated games that were done by M2, after they've been responsible for some of the best work on past Virtual Console and NSO games?), and
(3) seeking to get a little distance from the other Embracer-published Toaplan games (the BitWave PC releases, the mobile app) before releasing a superior Arcade Garage release

I'm not really worrying that we haven't heard an announcement yet, but I will become more concerned if we haven't heard about a vol.4 some time in the first half of 2025. Heck, maybe we'll get one of the Christmas season streams (with Tree-kun!) next month with details.

[BIL]

(1) a busier 2023 for ShotTriggers (2 releases, with Zero Fire and then DOJ right at the end of the year in December), along with the pseudo-ShotTriggers Ray'z collection

Ha, goddamn. I'd forgotten Ray'z was 2023 with ZF and DOJ. That year was crammed.

As always, I think it's best to wait and see. That beautiful Dominus collection came out of nowhere, and Operation Night Striker seems poised to surpass long-awaited rumours. Personally, I hope they'll eventually get to that DECO project teased several years back. (M2 Prez bought the rights to Great Ragtime Show and Ed Randy, IIRC?) Maybe patch in the PS1 Arrange content for Raystorm+Raycrisis, ala Cozmic Revelation adding G-Darius's v2 and PS1 revs, a bit down the line.

Didn't they tweet earlier this year requesting people be patient, re STGs in general / Toaplan in specific? That's all I needed to hear and more.

This has been an entertaining time in and of itself. A handful of crack specialists pulling off unprecedentedly mad shit against a backdrop of constant unease. I'm still amazed there was a TAGv2. I could feel my copy of STG Battle ~Vol.1~ hovering like death over me as I booted up Kyuukyoku Tiger Heli.

[Ms. Tea]

The other thing I haven't seen people bring up yet is that we're within a few months of Nintendo announcing the Switch 2. Feels like there's a real chance that M2 are holding off on announcing the next Toaplan collection so they can release it for the new system.

[Lander]

The other thing I haven't seen people bring up yet is that we're within a few months of Nintendo announcing the Switch 2.

Are we, though? That's been the line for months now, to the point where domain analysts and former-shells-of-men known as the press seem to be willing it into existence through the power of hype alone.
Personally, I hope Koizumi swags onto the stage and announces another bizarre new direction so the lot of them can eat crow, even if it is improbable

[Ms. Tea]

Yeah, Nintendo stated in an investor call that they'll be making an announcement by the end of their fiscal year: https://www.gematsu.com/2024/05/switch- ... t-for-june

[SeafoamGaming]

(1) a busier 2023 for ShotTriggers (2 releases, with Zero Fire and then DOJ right at the end of the year in December), along with the pseudo-ShotTriggers Ray'z collection

Ha, goddamn. I'd forgotten Ray'z was 2023 with ZF and DOJ. That year was crammed.

As always, I think it's best to wait and see. That beautiful Dominus collection came out of nowhere, and Operation Night Striker seems poised to surpass long-awaited rumours. Personally, I hope they'll eventually get to that DECO project teased several years back. (M2 Prez bought the rights to Great Ragtime Show and Ed Randy, IIRC?) Maybe patch in the PS1 Arrange content for Raystorm+Raycrisis, ala Cozmic Revelation adding G-Darius's v2 and PS1 revs, a bit down the line.

Didn't they tweet earlier this year requesting people be patient, re STGs in general / Toaplan in specific? That's all I needed to hear and more.

This has been an entertaining time in and of itself. A handful of crack specialists pulling off unprecedentedly mad shit against a backdrop of constant unease. I'm still amazed there was a TAGv2. I could feel my copy of STG Battle ~Vol.1~ hovering like death over me as I booted up Kyuukyoku Tiger Heli.

M2 has the exclusive license to Boogie Wings but not Randy, iirc Evercade couldn't get the former because Gmode doesn't license it to anyone else now but got randy just fine. I think Psycho Oscar was the other DECO game they announced.

[BIL]

M2 has the exclusive license to Boogie Wings but not Randy, iirc Evercade couldn't get the former because Gmode doesn't license it to anyone else now but got randy just fine. I think Psycho Oscar was the other DECO game they announced.

Oho, nice. Thanks for confirming! I have faith in M2 Prez.

[hamfighterx]

The other thing I haven't seen people bring up yet is that we're within a few months of Nintendo announcing the Switch 2. Feels like there's a real chance that M2 are holding off on announcing the next Toaplan collection so they can release it for the new system.

We talked about it a little bit several months ago, a few pages back: viewtopic.php?t=67802&start=1560

Wish you had been there, it seemed the prevailing view was it was insane that I would suggest such a thing as even being a possibility

[MJR]

The other thing I haven't seen people bring up yet is that we're within a few months of Nintendo announcing the Switch 2. Feels like there's a real chance that M2 are holding off on announcing the next Toaplan collection so they can release it for the new system.

And again, this does not make sense because it will mean less sales for them to jump ship now as it takes time for Switch 2 to have same large user base that Switch does. You are just projecting and making things up.

[Some-Mist]

The switch is said to be backwards compatible, but to which extent for physical game carts is still unknown. If that’s the case they’ll have an immediate large user base, but I also don’t think that would cause for a delay in development and production

[Johnpv]

Backwards compatible doesn't mean a Switch 2 title can be played on Switch 1. So they wouldn't have a large user base if they were releasing it as a Switch 2 title. Though they've talked in the past about some stuff being harder to do on Switch, so they may be waiting for that higher power of a Switch 2 to do the next titles they want to do.

[Some-Mist]

yeah, I know, that wasn't what I was implying

I meant that releasing it as a switch 1 title would allow for a large user base and wouldn't delay the development cycle of their next tiles, kinda like how they're currently releasing games for the ps4 instead of the ps5.

[Lander]

Yeah, Nintendo stated in an investor call that they'll be making an announcement by the end of their fiscal year: https://www.gematsu.com/2024/05/switch- ... t-for-june

Nintendo's terminology is "Switch successor". Nowhere in that statement do we have language that officially confirms said successor will be Switch 2, with all the 'same but more powerful' implications that brings.
Though naturally, Gematsu is happy to follow the established assumption and tag the post with 'Switch 2', regardless of the fact that Switch is as much a Wii U successor as Wii U was a Wii successor.

This is exactly the nonsense I mean - the outlets are quite happy throw due diligence to the wind and pick the narrative that results in the most hype, rather than discharging logic over concrete information.
They're probably right, based on the wild success of Switch and gradual deceleration of the industry in favor of risk aversion. But probable speculation is still speculation, and Ninty still have more precedent for left-field releases than they do for straightforward followups.