Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Sumez]

The art is digitally upscaled without it, that means altered, what else do you need?

This statement doesn't make any sense. If something is upscaled cleanly in integers, the graphics aren't modified at all, and there's no point to be made.
A CRT drawing a horizontal line does not have an inherent resolution, but it does have some imprecision, a shadow mask, and the glow of the phosphor - and the alterations done to the graphics is undoubtedly much more severe than digital integer upscaling. In fact, it's this "smudging" that Air Master Burst is actively advertising when talking about the effect of dithering. So by this logic, a CRT image is the one that's compromised.

But displaying the graphics at the "original resolution" (but again, let's remind ourselves that these games were designed for HD consoles) isn't the argument in favor of CRT monitors, so let's not misdirect the discourse here

[Air Master Burst]

It's kind of tragically hilarious how many devs are committed to releasing games that will never look right.

If you enjoy little checkerboards everywhere more power to you. The fact is that basically all of these games look SO MUCH BETTER on CRTs.

That's why it's extra refreshing when you see something like Steel Assault; where the dev not only made it in the appropriate resolution for CRT screens, but actually advertises this as one of the key features!

[Marc]

Aah, shmups.com...... never change.

[Bassa-Bassa]

The art is digitally upscaled without it, that means altered, what else do you need?

This statement doesn't make any sense. If something is upscaled cleanly in integers, the graphics aren't modified at all, and there's no point to be made.
A CRT drawing a horizontal line does not have an inherent resolution, but it does have some imprecision, a shadow mask, and the glow of the phosphor - and the alterations done to the graphics is undoubtedly much more severe than digital integer upscaling. In fact, it's this "smudging" that Air Master Burst is actively advertising when talking about the effect of dithering. So by this logic, a CRT image is the one that's compromised.

But displaying the graphics at the "original resolution" (but again, let's remind ourselves that these games were designed for HD consoles) isn't the argument in favor of CRT monitors, so let's not misdirect the discourse here

Well, check how this conversation started:

A real shame besides is that these games are basically getting the best pixel art made in recent times yet you can't display them 1:1 on any ordinary CRT at full width due to the odd resolution mode their assets use or other problems.

They are not alone, lots of my pretty modern pixel art games have native widescreen resolutions and it's a total bummer. I'm actually picking up a G1-modded Trinitron later today so I was just looking over my PC collection to see what would work best, and the results were depressing.

At this point I think it mostly depends on what they use to make them.

You may think Burst included the upscaled graphics prerogative when defending the dithering thing (I do not):

Do you understand how dithering works? I'm not trying to be condescending here, but even if you love the sharp bare pixel look there are lots of graphical effects in classic games that just look wrong on HD screens. You can slap a digital filter over it, but they still don't look right.

but even if you do, note that it's an "even if". I thought it was a given for everybody that the main reason to use a CRT in regards to graphics was to keep the original resolution (at full screen, or as full as possible) - ask around. Moreover, I wouldn't agree that you get rid of the checkerboards if you display dithering on a CRT with upscaled graphics. The checkerboards appear because you double/multiply the lines. Obviously, with a CRT it'll look different, but the checkerboard is still there, even on an interlaced picture, if it needs to be a 15khz CRT.

So displaying the graphics at the original resolution is the Argument in favor of (RGB) CRT monitors, and then some.

You do have a point indeed in that digital art is also altered on a (15khz) CRT because of phosphor glow and the mask. We even talk about different picture presentations depending on the tube's horizontal resolution capabilities, the type of mask, etc, and that's even considering only the RGB signal. They all share one basic thing in common, though - the art is displayed at its resolution. Doubling/integraly multiplying the pixels may keep the digital information intact, but the result for the eyes is far from the original picture - you get a mosaic, kind of. So graphics are indeed modified - multiplying the pixels is still a modification of the original picture, and with dramatic effects in this case.

In the end, you could argue you can get a 1:1 display on a flat screen for more authenticity technically speaking, and I won't discuss against that. These pictures look gorgeous on my old desktop LCD without any scaling:







But you'll lose the effects only a CRT adds as you mentioned, and when talking low resolution/240p they're usually necessary, because there's the issue of size - an LCD/flat panel just can't get big enough for them without separating the physical pixels too much for the picture's good. The biggest we got for low resolution/240p was the Nintendo DS XL and that already evidenced that problem, and without being large enough anyway.

So, different (RGB) CRTs will resolve a 240p picture differently, but generally speaking they will still share a common basis which is hard not to accept as enough for the purpose and valid from a technical perspective. Nothing like what integer upscaling does.

[Air Master Burst]

but even if you do, note that it's an "even if". I thought it was a given for everybody that the main reason to use a CRT in regards to graphics was to keep the original resolution (at full screen, or as full as possible) - ask around. Moreover, I wouldn't agree that you get rid of the checkerboards if you display dithering on a CRT with upscaled graphics.

Yeah, I was assuming no upscaling.

Of course, these particular titles are in a weird twilight zone where they had to frankenstein a bunch of new pixels onto the old ones. If they did a complete redraw they could just use the full palette and not worry about dithering anything, but I doubt they had the budget for that.

[copy-paster]

Sickgrabbed some cheap shmups and stuff since I'm a poor man, and one of them might gonna make BIL erect for 3 days straight.

[Sima Tuna]

Huntdown makes me erect for 3 days straight.

I finally broke down and bought EAR, Rolling Thunder 1 and 2 for switch. I don't have enough data gathered on the Rolling Thunder games to comment yet. EAR is a favorite of mine and the s-tribute actually seems responsive, unless Shitty Connection's usual garbage porting. I told myself I wouldn't buy this, but caved in the end to the power of sales. My consumer brain needs to own all the tactical scrolling shooters.

Spoiler

I bought the namco museum ports of rolling thunder 1 and 2. The interface for the collection is garbage. The games seem fine, but damn do I miss the clean ACA or Sega Ages interface.

[copy-paster]

Yep, less playing and more buying that's the way to achieve the PEAK CONSOOMER mentality.

[Sumez]

19XX is the game in that bundle that triggers my erection

[Steven]

I finally got PC Xeno Crisis. It's... harder than the MD/Neo Geo/probably Dreamcast versions?! What the hell, that was unexpected! It spawns more enemies, they shoot more often, the orange gas enemies shoot very quickly now so it's hard to kill them before they shoot (which has the added side effect of making the gas mask not a completely wasteful upgrade), and the grenade now goes over enemies at close range, so it's no longer a GTFO of my face button, which I have mixed feelings about, but okay. I don't remember if grenades behave like this on the Dreamcast version, but I don't think so.

The BFG now has recoil that can get you killed, making it even more useless than it already was, and the flamethrower now takes a little time to turn while shooting, which both makes it also worse than it already was and also unpleasantly reminds one of the awful controls of the Neo Geo version, but the shotgun is actually pretty good now instead of being complete shit like on the versions for the ancient game systems, so in the end it sort of works out because two bad weapons are still bad and one previously bad weapon is now pretty good. The manual knife button from the Neo Geo is here too, and once again it's best avoided. Just use the auto knife, it's safer.

According to my FPS counter, this version seems to possibly support refresh rates higher than 60Hz, which is good, but I'm not sure if the game actually runs any faster than 60Hz because it's super not-smooth during screen transitions at 90Hz, but whatever. I'm leaving it at 90Hz for now. Less lag, assuming it does actually run higher than 60Hz somehow, and the only downside is the screen transitions don't look great, but that's fine. The opening cutscene lacks the voice acting from the Dreamcast and Neo Geo versions, which is unexpected. I wonder why that isn't there.

Official Xeno Crisis version ranking:
PC
Dreamcast
MD (with M30 2.4g controller for L & R buttons for roll and grenade)
MD (with regular 6-button controller)
Neo Geo (shit controls, avoid unless you are an arcade operator)
MD (with 3-button controller)

I also got Bot Vice, which I discovered about a year ago and then forgot about. It's as awesome as it looks, and you get exactly what you see. Weird to see yet another modern game that benefits from external autofire, but here it is.

[Sumez]

Had the opportunity over the weekend to join the ranks of the few rare people who have had access to actually play Gimmick Exact Mix.

It's fantastic.

Played on a New Net City, hooked up via a digital-to-analog VGA adapter. I believe that gave us a 480p signal, with the system set to a fixed 4:3. But the game has built-in software scanlines - and while that's usually a big no-go for me, properly blanking out every second line of pixels on a 480p signal results in what's essentially indistinguishable from 240p video, and the new graphics for the remake look absolutely beautiful this way! It fits the game so god damn well that seeing the game's original graphics (which can still be enabled via an in-game option) actually looks wrong after a while. Outside of the stupid change they made to the otherwise iconic TLB's s design, I can't really imagine that being handled better than it is here.

Mechanically it plays completely like the original game. I haven't played it in years, so I couldn't tell if it's 1:1 everywhere, but it feels that way to me. A few alterations made the game more fitting for the arcade setting, and it's generally stuff that people in this thread have already wished for. Fewer (and finite) score extends, and a sensible time limit, which is strict enough to entice moving ahead, but never feels like a tight limitation. The only place I'd be close to running out of time playing casually, is on stage 2, if I take the long router through the ship (for the life-up potion) and of course picking up the hidden treasure, *and* the hidden 1ups above that - I'd finish the stage with only few seconds left on the clock.

Speaking of the 1UPs, any potions picked up will also no longer respawn on death, so you can't farm for infinite lives anymore, which was expected.

There's at least one scoring alteration in place, earning an exponentially growing multiplier for taking out multiple enemies in a single shot. I did not really explore it, but I can imagine it allows for some crazy new tricks. The game also rewards a nice bonus for not taking any hits. And of course, tapping into the insane speedrunning scene the game facilitates, there's a straight up built-in speedrun modes allowing per-stage time attacks.

I was pretty rusty though, not having played the game in ages, and managed to secure a good ending 1CC (get all treasures + beat the TLB) only on my very last life, after messing up against the last boss several times in a row.


It is without a doubt absolutely the best, ultimate version of Gimmick! Absolutely excellent work by mikejmoffitt & co. - It truly is a viscious crime against humanity that this game is exclusive to exA Arcade, and thus completely unaccessable to everyone but a tiny handful of extremely fortunate people. There really is no defending this.

[Steven]

I played that a few years ago. BEEP had it set up in their Akiba location for a little while and I got to play it there. Best part was that I got to play it for free, and nothing is better than free except for stuff that is better and also free.

Also, obligatory fuck exa. Between exa, which I do have access to, and Shitty Connection, I vastly prefer Shitty Connection.

[Sima Tuna]

I also got Bot Vice, which I discovered about a year ago and then forgot about. It's as awesome as it looks, and you get exactly what you see. Weird to see yet another modern game that benefits from external autofire, but here it is.

Bot Vice is really cool. The game goes on sale all the time for a dollar or two, and sometimes even less than that. I feel bad it sells so cheaply. Feels like this one missed its audience, because a lot of people out there would love it if they knew it existed.

[Steven]

I also got Bot Vice, which I discovered about a year ago and then forgot about. It's as awesome as it looks, and you get exactly what you see. Weird to see yet another modern game that benefits from external autofire, but here it is.

Bot Vice is really cool. The game goes on sale all the time for a dollar or two, and sometimes even less than that. I feel bad it sells so cheaply. Feels like this one missed its audience, because a lot of people out there would love it if they knew it existed.

It feels like I stole it since it's so cheap. It was 240 yen, which is apparently $1.49 USD now. It's really a good game. Looking at the stat trackers, it looks like its highest simultaneous player count was only 41 players, and only about one person plays it a single time once every few weeks, which makes me sad. Oh well. I'm surprised that not many people even here seem to have played it. Maybe we can change that...!!!

[Air Master Burst]

I'm getting Bot Vice as soon as I get home, looks dope!

[Marc]

I also got Bot Vice, which I discovered about a year ago and then forgot about. It's as awesome as it looks, and you get exactly what you see. Weird to see yet another modern game that benefits from external autofire, but here it is.

Bot Vice is really cool. The game goes on sale all the time for a dollar or two, and sometimes even less than that. I feel bad it sells so cheaply. Feels like this one missed its audience, because a lot of people out there would love it if they knew it existed.

It feels like I stole it since it's so cheap. It was 240 yen, which is apparently $1.49 USD now. It's really a good game. Looking at the stat trackers, it looks like its highest simultaneous player count was only 41 players, and only about one person plays it a single time once every few weeks, which makes me sad. Oh well. I'm surprised that not many people even here seem to have played it. Maybe we can change that...!!!

On sale for 2.99 on Dwitch, snapped it up.

[Daytime Waitress]

Bot Vice is really cool. The game goes on sale all the time for a dollar or two, and sometimes even less than that. I feel bad it sells so cheaply. Feels like this one missed its audience, because a lot of people out there would love it if they knew it existed.

It feels like I stole it since it's so cheap. It was 240 yen, which is apparently $1.49 USD now. It's really a good game. Looking at the stat trackers, it looks like its highest simultaneous player count was only 41 players, and only about one person plays it a single time once every few weeks, which makes me sad. Oh well. I'm surprised that not many people even here seem to have played it. Maybe we can change that...!!!

On sale for 2.99 on Dwitch, snapped it up.

I picked it up a ways back because it looked similar enough to Wild Guns at first blush, but between cover and dodging and weapon switching, it initially felt like there was, mechanically, a bit much going on for my monke brain. I'm giving it another shot now because of this thread and am really enjoying how many varied enemy types it throws at you in the first few stages - everyone has a clearly defined role, and thus you have to prioritise different weapon types at different times, whilst still taking ammo conservation into account. It is, mechanically, a lot, but it all slots together so smoothly that you want to press on.

Plus it's a charming little universe that does a damn good job of straddling the line between "goofy robot dog and tiger boys spouting wisecracks" and "liquefying a forklift full of incendiary canisters with your grenade launcher".

[Sima Tuna]

Bot Vice reminds me a lot of Wild Guns Reloaded (both are gallery shooters,) except Bot Vice feels a lot faster to me. My only criticism of Bot Vice is I wish there was a full arcade mode to cater to arcade purists. It doesn't bother ME that the game uses levels, but I know it will annoy some of the very people who would most love the game. I doubt Bot Vice 2 will ever be made, because I'm assuming the game didn't sell well. The creator has gone on to make other kinds of games IIRC. A Bot Vice 2 with more characters, modes and even more levels would be amazing. The game is pure arcade fun, yet I have never seen any of the larger youtube channels or arcade gaming groups try to rep for the title. I suppose it's just that unknown.

Searching the game on youtube just brings back some promo materials, a few playthroughs in other languages and a Paul Eales (probably cheated) run. I know the game is balls-hard and some won't like that, but the kind of person who plays real arcade games (the stuff that was actually released in arcades) shouldn't be turned off by the game ramping up quickly. This is definitely one of those games that's going to kick your ass until you learn, but the fast pace and glorious explosions more than compensate the challenge.

Spoiler

[BEAMLORD]

Yeah, Bot Vice is good. I'd agree with Sima that it sorely misses a straight up arcade mode. But then, for my money, it might be a little long for that. What is it, over 20 or so stages? The handful of runs I can find on YouTube clock in at around an hour or just over. There is a 43 minute speed run up on there. I can deal with sitting down for an hour-long run, but my personal preference is usually for shorter and sweeter run times. Wild Guns, as an example, is a comfy half hour, thereabouts.

Still, there are worse problems to have than too much of a good game, I suppose. It has a ton of distinct and varied bosses, and a good variety of general enemy types. Plays nice and looks the part. It could really use some hype.

[Air Master Burst]

Holy shit, Bot Vice IS dope! I'm about to dig in for real this week once I get comfortable with the controls.

HIGHLY recommend a stick for this game, it's way too hectic for a single thumb to keep up. It also helped a ton to remap the dash to down, since that frees up another button finger.

ETA:

Plays nice and looks the part. It could really use some hype.

This is probably the most it's had in ages! Maybe we can do a hi score contest or something? For 2 bucks everyone should get this.

[Marc]

I picked it up a ways back because it looked similar enough to Wild Guns at first blush, but between cover and dodging and weapon switching, it initially felt like there was, mechanically, a bit much going on for my monke brain.

First few attempts, this exactly.

[BIL]

I don't have anything Bot Vice is on but if I did I'd have nabbed it years ago, it looks so damn good and always gets good buzz from trusted peeps. One day I'll make things right

Sickgrabbed some cheap shmups and stuff since I'm a poor man, and one of them might gonna make BIL erect for 3 days straight.

Using my boner to hammer nails through plywood right now Hope you enjoy it as much as I did

Had the opportunity over the weekend to join the ranks of the few rare people who have had access to actually play Gimmick Exact Mix.

It's fantastic.

Mucho manloves for writeup, that sounds amazing

[Air Master Burst]

I picked it up a ways back because it looked similar enough to Wild Guns at first blush, but between cover and dodging and weapon switching, it initially felt like there was, mechanically, a bit much going on for my monke brain.

First few attempts, this exactly.

Yeah, I'm a few hours deep and it still feels like I have one too few fingers; and that's even with remapping roll to down on the stick.

Once I memorize the weapon order I think it'll be a lot smoother since operating both weapon switch buttons is just too much when it gets hectic.

And holy shit, it gets hectic quick. Granted, I cranked it straight to hard and never looked back, but this thing is kicking my ass pretty good. I think it took me at least a couple dozen tries to handle those nasty twin robot bosses, and that's only like level 3 or 4.

[Steven]

Yes, Bot Vice is hard, or at least harder than expected, but it's a lot of fun. I always forget to mash when using the handgun. Maybe it would be easier if I remembered. I am curious enough to try playing it with a controller that has autofire, but I also feel that that might mess up some of the other weapons, notably the flamethrower. I made it to a certain level and suddenly HOLY SHIT A TRAIN comes barrelling through the stage and smashes everything in its path and barely misses me, who didn't notice the little indicator telling me that it was coming. This game is glorious.

[Sima Tuna]

Bot Vice is a very hard game. But this is the forum where all the people with way more skills than me body the hell out of every game. So I know there are people here who can hang at the game's skill ceiling.

[XoPachi]

Ooooh my loooord, this Panzer Bandit game is amazing. I played this all evening yesterday. I don't even remember what video I was watching but YouTube's autoplay switched to some guy playing this when my video ended. Immediately shut off the video after 3 seconds and said "No, I have to play whatever the fuck this is."

I'm horrid at it.

And I don't know what this kind of character design is called if it even has a name, but this speaks to me spiritually. These sorts of designs are peak video game characters for me. I instantly wanted to play as him.

Spoiler

Bot Vice is a very hard game. But this is the forum where all the people with way more skills than me body the hell out of every game. So I know there are people here who can hang at the game's skill ceiling.

Yeah I've still yet to clear Bot Vice. I think I've been stuck on level 15 or something for the longest, but that game is great. I love DYA games.

[Air Master Burst]

Ooooh my loooord, this Panzer Bandit game is amazing. I played this all evening yesterday.

Store brand Guardian Heroes is still pretty good! There's also Rapid Reload if you want store brand Gunstar Heroes. It's also pretty good!

Neither is as good as the original Treasure games they're ripping off, but they're both probably better than the official GBA sequels.

[BIL]

I'd put Advance Gunstar over Gunners Heaven, though not by a great margin. Gunners is very good, perhaps remarkably so, given how easily it might've been phoned in for the launch window. Has an unmistakable fiery passion that would've done the 16bit years proud.

In direct comparison with Treasure's game, I just miss the rollicking physicality Advance inherited. MD Gunstar has perhaps the most literal melees of any run/gun. Wild plunges into massed hostiles, laying about the foe with abandon! A career-ending slide tackle to the poor fucks in front, pawns sacrificed in the vain hope of dinting your hellacious assault! Then dropkicking, frog-splashing, and frisbee-tossing their comrades' broken bodies left and right! Perhaps blocking a would-be HITMAN SHOT from the one sneaky prick, immediately revenged by a kick to his jaw so biblically FOTNesque, he is left flat on his ass gawping at the clouds in stunned revelation of True Pain - and True Faith! - before his stricken body detonates like a warehouse full of TNT!

Huge part of GSH's appeal for me. Advance captured enough of that crowd-crushing forward momentum to make me happy. I especially liked the new SRK.

Alien Soldier kept a bit of it with Counter Force aka Cyber Birdman Bitchslap. Blocked by a Robbie The Robot whose cold steel armour refuses to burn, nor buckle beneath punishing artillery? Just slap the daft twat Or body-tackle him with such spacetime-annihilating force, he sees the face of God in the flames of his own sub-atomic obliteration, and uses his last ever CPU cycle to repent for being an asshole!

DON'T FUCK UP MY SPEEDKILL ROBBY YOU PERPETUAL SYNDICATION TWAT (■｀w´■)

Christ that's something else AGH recaptured, an opening stage I could replay ten times in a row without the slightest hint of fatigue.

THE DOMINATION WILL CONTINUE (｀w´メ)

UNTIL RADNESS IS ACHIEVE (｀w´メ)

^ old lame run - lacks sufficient slapping, disgraceful! Trust me, just tap [B,B] as you tumble out of that first Phoenix Force, you'll delete Robby's face with one good discipline!

Been ungodly forever since I last played Gunners, I should revisit. I just really like seeing it mentioned. It felt like a semi "Did I just imagine that? Was it cancelled?" cryptid, before I got die interwebs and was reacquainted. I distinctly recall being so happy to see a loud and proud run/gun amidst all the artsy stuff I didn't care about, in the magazine previews. (I might care about them now though tbh! it's been long enough, let old bones lie ffs )

Panzer Bandit, otoh, most definitely is an unofficial GH (the Saturn GH ) sequel. I think I lucked into the EZMODO pick, the cigar-chomping cyber commando dude, because I just liked his style. Smoulderingly glaring off the select screen with his steely red eye! Grrrr!

(■｀w´■) Too cool to die super-buff metal commando dude! (｀w´メ)

But I liked his grenade-chucking Rolento rolling even more, and apparently it breaks stuff, because I was keeping burning bodies aloft on a river of pain from the get go. Great game! I think I took to it more readily than Guardian Heroes itself tbh. The lack of chatter definitely helped.

[XoPachi]

I'm kind of kicking ass in this game now. I'm still chipping at what I assume are the starting levels trying to not die. I can clear 3 stages before that happens but that one girl with the damn Rashid tornadoes keeps catching me.

My only upfront issue so far is that the music is mostly blah. A game like this deserves a far better soundtrack. A small few characters also look kind of "eh" to me. But I haven't played a beat em up quite this much. This is really, reeeally fun.

I was playing Gunner's Heaven and Dolphin Blue a lot back in May. Loved those games. I want to return to them.

[cfx]

.