Raiden Nova - CRITICS ARE CALLING IT EVERYTHING FROM SHIT TO FUCKING SHIT!

[guigui]

Twin stick games : some people here like them, some people dont. For those latter, go play Nex Machina.

Raiden games : III Mikado, IV Mikado, and V Director's Cut are available on the Nintendo Switch. I only have time to invest in one, which one should that be according to shmups community ?

[Fingolfin]

Subgenres, hours of fun!

Well put — exactly and precisely so!

In four words you captured what I was trying to get at in several paragraphs: that by STG/arcade shooting game enthusiasts not trying different types of games, sub genres, different game mechanics and different control schemes they might quite possibly miss out on “hours of fun!”

“Try it, you’ll like it!”
or
“Try it, you might like it!”

Edit/addition
Nex Machina is amazing!!!

[cfx]

.

[EmperorIng]

Twin stick games : some people here like them, some people dont. For those latter, go play Nex Machina.

Raiden games : III Mikado, IV Mikado, and V Director's Cut are available on the Nintendo Switch. I only have time to invest in one, which one should that be according to shmups community ?

III is great, as is V. I would prefer you play them on PC if you can help it, iirc the V on the switch was not particularly good.

[Steven]

their dialogue sounds like it was written by a deer

Now I actually WANT to play it! I missed the Steam sale because I forgot about it. Oops. Maybe I'll remember next time. Might as well add it to my wishlist now so I don't forget.

[BIL]

I'm devastated to say chaps, my "Subgenres: Hours of fun!" was a self-deprecating little dig at meself and others who treasure the fine distinctions of Ikari and Gun.Smoke y'know,

"HMM, THIS LP "MANY BEAVERS DONE BOUNCING UP N DOWN PON MINE SCHWEIZER" IS MILDLY BLACKENED BAVARIAN DONG METAL WITH DJENT ACCENTS"

"UNCULTURED SWINE, CAN YOU NOT TELL IT IS NEOPROGRESSIVE BAVARIAN SCHLONG METAL IN THE BIGDONG VON SCHWARZSCHWIERTE TRADITION???"

"LOL NOOBS, TELL ME YOU'RE BOOMERS WITHOUT TELLING ME, THIS IS 100% WEST BAVARIAN SECULAR JAZZ"

Anyway carry on Or should I say, in this uneasy wait... PREPARE YOURSELVES

[hamfighterx]

Accidental elitism on my part there

Oh heck no, it was warranted elitism! I think it's very useful to distinguish the take from high level players like Jaimers and Aquas from people like... me, a genre enthusiast with decidedly less skill and patience lol. Nobody's gonna confuse my replays for theirs. But yeah, totally agree with the overall point that there are a variety of STG fans with a wide range of skill who enjoyed Raiden V. (I also totally respect that somebody like xxx1993 was also a big fan, but focusing more on stuff like the story even if that's not what I really care about)

As for Raiden Nova, my thoughts are shifting wildly. I recoiled with horror on first reading the news, and assumed maybe they were just trying to jump on the Vampire Survivors trendwagon (though now that I've looked at it closer, maybe that's less the case). Then my mind went to very cautious optimism, and now my interest level is increasing quite a bit. Still not sure how much of that is morbid curiosity versus actual enthusiasm for the idea, but at the very least it's interesting to get a surprise like this.

As far as twin stick shooters generally, even though I'm not super into the subgenre, I did have a really good time playing NeverAwake fairly recently! I'm using that as a reminder to keep an open mind.

[Steven]

I preordered for PS5. I may cancel. Not sure yet.

It's so unbelievably weird to spend dozens of hours playing the highly methodical Raiden III and IV and then to see what are probably the exact same models from those games spinning around in circles effortlessly, physics be damned (Garegga final boss is over here laughing, of course), in the PV for this, and watching that PV again left me with somewhat less positive impressions. The first time was "WTF this is real???" and now it's "I wonder if this is actually going to be good or terrible".

[Jeneki]

I suppose if they're doing a side game with all the ship models, naming it Raiden Gaiden would be too obvious?

[qmish]

I can't vote because I was never harsh on Raiden V

Anyway, I'm pessimistic about this new "Nova" twinstick.

For those latter, go play Nex Machina.

+1

p.s.

Picture from OP doesn't work, please reupload.

[guigui]

Twin stick games : some people here like them, some people dont. For those latter, go play Nex Machina.

Raiden games : III Mikado, IV Mikado, and V Director's Cut are available on the Nintendo Switch. I only have time to invest in one, which one should that be according to shmups community ?

III is great, as is V. I would prefer you play them on PC if you can help it, iirc the V on the switch was not particularly good.

Will focus on III then, thanks for the tip.

[XoPachi]

When I was about 25 here, I remember seeing III get dogged on a good bit around here and I was always so confused as to why.

[Fingolfin]

What makes you think everyone saying they don't like twinstick shooters hasn't tried any of them?

Didn’t mean to irk you or anyone else who has tried twin stick shooters and came to the conclusion that twin stick shooters are not for them.

No strong arming or argument intended — only attempting to encourage shmups.system11 community to try twin stick shooters if they hadn’t already. Hoping that by sharing my enthusiasm for the sub genre it might encourage (some few) others to consider trying twin stick shooters.

My previous posts (i.e. last two) were responses to XoPachi’s query…

What are generally the main concerns people have with twinstick games here? I'm not a fan of Raiden suddenly shifting gears to this because I don't see how you get any of Raiden's core playstyle out of that. But a lot of people here seem to not like twin stick games in general. I'm curious.

Additionally another community member had posted “I don't play twin stick games, never have, never will.”

Hope that makes sense and clears up any confusion about my intentions: that no argument or arguing of any kind was intended on my part; just sharing enthusiasm and personal preference(s).

[DietSoap]

Looks awful but I want to try it.

III is great, as is V.

What do you not like (at least relatively speaking) about IV?

[EmperorIng]

Looks awful but I want to try it.

III is great, as is V.

What do you not like (at least relatively speaking) about IV?

IV's big problem imo is bullet wobble- where the bullets scroll relative to the camera scrolling of the background as opposed to a fixed trajectory. It is really distracting and disorienting that a bullet seems to change its path (optical illusion) despite you moving to a part of the screen where it should go off-screen. III does not have a scrolling camera so it avoids this problem (and funnily enough V does not do this either).

[Austin]

I was one of the bigger detractors of Raiden V here when it first hit. It just felt like a step back from prior games in many ways (insert the usual "story focus, no tate, online functionality" crap here). The general enemy layout was also very mundane compared to standard Raiden games. However, it's grown on me heavily and is now one of my favorites in the franchise. The more you play, the more you get into a rhythm and flow with the level design, and start to vibe with more subtle things like the soundtrack picking up pace when the background speeds up, or when it crescendos when a big event happens, it's good stuff.

I do feel the Director's Cut is the stronger iteration of it (which is what most are going to have access to), as the bonus stages have little risk but huge rewards (giving bombs and fairies), which makes the entire run much more doable (especially a TFB run). The original Xbox One version is very tough to complete even if you know the game inside and out. A few comments based on other responses in this thread: 1) The soundtrack - It's pretty amazing and I recommend the PS4 physical version since it comes with the soundtrack on CD; 2) Voicovers - Those can be disabled in the options menu, thankfully; 3) Contrast - I have found that this varies from version to version. It's especially bad in the Switch port, with the part right before launching into space being especially bad, but it's pretty clean overall in the PS4 one.

For Raiden Nova, I still really don't know what to think. I'm open for trying it though. I am a fan of twin stick shooters (really, anything with "shooter" in it, I like moving/dodging and shooting), so I'll go into it with an open mind. I do see the similarities to Raiden V in particular, like how certain firepower works and how some bosses act. I am okay with this direction as long as it doesn't replace the mainline series.

[Sengoku Strider]

Twin stick shooters make a lot of sense in a world where FPS is the dominant genre and the Switch doesn't even have a proper dpad (grits teeth).

their dialogue sounds like it was written by a deer

Now I actually WANT to play it! I missed the Steam sale because I forgot about it. Oops. Maybe I'll remember next time. Might as well add it to my wishlist now so I don't forget.

You can get a taste of it in the screen shot I posted, which I've annotated because I don't know if the full magic comes across at first glance:

Max: So it's a cave surrounded by crystals? Isn't that a promising cave for the future? Man, give me a break.

Eshiria: But to have contamination in a cave...what could this mean?

Max: I guess the cave's being a bit shy.



I think Max's voice actor is the same guy from Legion on PC Engine, who makes odd wisecracks about coffee while overnarrating that game too. Maybe it's a shared universe.

At last, the prodigal Thunder Force 2 gameplay model returns!

The thing that jumped to mind for me was actually golden age stuff like Sinistar. TF2's thing is that you never stop moving at a constant speed, so you're always zig-zagging back & forth to maintain position.

Yeah Raiden V has a few bullet visibility issues and is a bit long

It's really long for a tough game. It's got branching stage paths too. It's really a lot to master, I've never beaten it.

iirc the V on the switch was not particularly good.

How so? It's the only version I own so I can't compare, but nothing's jumped out at me.

[XoPachi]

Is V even worth rebuying on PC? I was dumb and got it on the Switch because "IT'S PORTABLE!! :D "

[maximo310]

iirc the V on the switch was not particularly good.

How so? It's the only version I own so I can't compare, but nothing's jumped out at me.

The visibility feels even worse compared to the PC version (which was mostly noticeable in stage 2/8 with the stage background colors overlapping with bullet colors).

[Furry Fox Jet Pilot]

Can anyone confirm if Go Sato is in charge of the entire soundtrack? If so, then that is such exciting news seeing him return to composing an entirely new Raiden soundtrack after 17 years.

[To Far Away Times]

Raiden V is fine. Neither great nor terrible.

[Steven]

You can get a taste of it in the screen shot I posted, which I've annotated because I don't know if the full magic comes across at first glance:

Max: So it's a cave surrounded by crystals? Isn't that a promising cave for the future? Man, give me a break.

Eshiria: But to have contamination in a cave...what could this mean?

Max: I guess the cave's being a bit shy.

Now that's some Pulitzer-worthy stuff right there. Maybe I should actually have bought it. It's almost as good as it giving you stuff to look at with your extra eyeballs! I love using my extra eyes to witness things. It's just like using my normal eyes, but different!

Is V even worth rebuying on PC? I was dumb and got it on the Switch because "IT'S PORTABLE!! "

Everything is always worth playing/re-obtaining on PC as long as it doesn't have some shitty DRM scheme. Fortunately, Raiden V is on GOG, so the GOG version should be the best version of the game, and the Steam Deck and other handheld PCs exist, so portableness is also available.

Can anyone confirm if Go Sato is in charge of the entire soundtrack? If so, then that is such exciting news seeing him return to composing an entirely new Raiden soundtrack after 17 years.

I certainly hope so. Raiden IV (the regular one, not Overkill or Mikado Remix, although the stuff on Mikado from Go Sato Band is just as good as the originals; mixed on the Heavy Metal Raiden stuff, although I'd like to see them live. Seen Go Sato Band live several times and they are amazing) has one of the best soundtracks in the entire genre, which is an insane accomplishment and I hope that it is him so he can bring more of that. That is the exact reason I want the LE for Nova: I really just want the CD lol

Twin stick games : some people here like them, some people dont. For those latter, go play Nex Machina.

Raiden games : III Mikado, IV Mikado, and V Director's Cut are available on the Nintendo Switch. I only have time to invest in one, which one should that be according to shmups community ?

Looks like you already went with III, but I'm going to toss IV a vote, especially because the Switch version might be the best version of IV Mikado. Yes, it does have kind of messed up scoring and the thing with enemy shots moving due to scrolling the screen, but after a lot of Toaplan I'm fine with that and the game's a lot of fun and my favourite Raiden, with III coming in second. IV is more difficult than III is, but I also think III's bullet visibility is a bit worse. I have cleared neither so far.

For III, use the R missile because it's really really strong and very good. For IV the R missile is really really weak and very bad, so use the other missiles. Not really sure which missile in IV is better, but both M and H are better than R. I usually use H.

[Lemnear]

the poll at the beginning of the topic knocked me out

so is the future twin-stick?
Sure the cover artwork for III and IV were cool but this is

I don't like at all how "planes" rotate, that is, they shouldn't rotate stationary like this

[Lander]

Max: So it's a cave surrounded by crystals? Isn't that a promising cave for the future? Man, give me a break.

Eshiria: But to have contamination in a cave...what could this mean?

Max: I guess the cave's being a bit shy.

Ye gods. That's the thing that always bugs me with these fluffy dialogue-for-dialogue's sake things; they don't even try to make the characters seem anchored in the setting, it's always small talk over tea and cakes.

Perhaps it's the logical conclusion of the 90s too cool to care vibe; so detached from the life-threatening war setting that it's gone from grace under pressure to downright casual!

OR it's a subtle anecdote about CAVE, and we've all been had.

You can get a taste of it in the screen shot I posted, which I've annotated because I don't know if the full magic comes across at first glance:

Brilliant

Is "Cheer Call" like a HR-friendly version of a Hyper or something?

The thing that jumped to mind for me was actually golden age stuff like Sinistar. TF2's thing is that you never stop moving at a constant speed, so you're always zig-zagging back & forth to maintain position.

Yeah, Sinistar is a good pull; player movement dictated largely by whatever's trying to kill you.
I should give the golden age a proper look one of these days...

[Daytime Waitress]

Max: So it's a cave surrounded by crystals? Isn't that a promising cave for the future? Man, give me a break.

Eshiria: But to have contamination in a cave...what could this mean?

Max: I guess the cave's being a bit shy.

Ye gods. That's the thing that always bugs me with these fluffy dialogue-for-dialogue's sake things; they don't even try to make the characters seem anchored in the setting, it's always small talk over tea and cakes.

Perhaps it's the logical conclusion of the 90s too cool to care vibe; so detached from the life-threatening war setting that it's gone from grace under pressure to downright casual!

OR it's a subtle anecdote about CAVE, and we've all been had.

*pushes up glasses* Um ackshually it's a highly perceptive allegory about the pernicious effect on the genre precipitated by Cave's shift to mobile gaming, you just wouldn't understand.

Or, like the cheer call, it was a misunderstood attempt to broaden the potential of the medium. 1cc's and no-bomb runs are played out categories, Real Gamers aim for that elusive Don't Have a Stroke While Trying to Comprehend the Dialogue-ALL.

[Steven]

Got back from the event at Mikado. What they showed today seemed alright and pretty interesting, if not exactly what you think of when you think of Raiden, so I'm going to try this game. They launched the game using Steam on a PC, not a console, so I think it is likely there will be a PC version. Sato-san is the sound producer, so he is doing the sound effects and overseeing the music team, but not doing any new music himself... I think.

Once you get to the boss the game becomes very similar to a normal vertical shooter but with twin stick controls, which is cool. Is there another twinstick shooter that does this?

I don't like at all how "planes" rotate, that is, they shouldn't rotate stationary like this

They're VTOLs, it's fine. VTOLS can do that in real life, although I believe the mobility is somewhat limited. Hovering like that also eats a bunch of fuel and the pilots don't like doing it. Helicopter pilots dislike hovering too.

[Jeneki]

Man, these Vampire Survivors DLC packs are getting out of hand!

Looks like we have a winner! Or there's at least one mode where you level up and choose a powerup from a list.

Some chat and gameplay on Mikado's channel today (gameplay starts at 16:30): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mtXQGJg1Ts&t=990s

I also like how the first thing mentioned after starting the game was "Bosconian! Last Mission! Time Pilot!"

[OmegaFlareX]

I can personally attest to Vampire Survivors being an incredibly fun and satisfying game. Seriously, go try it if you haven't yet, it's only $5 on Steam (also on Switch, not sure about PS/XB).

That said, I think this game will be awesome. If the VS stuff is an extra mode, that'll be worth it by itself.

[Some-Mist]

and Monolith or whatever it's called now

[Necronom]

I invested many hours into games like Time Pilot and Nex Machina. While I wouldn't mind an arcade style next gen Raiden Fighters, I think Raiden Nova might be the breath of fresh air this series needs.
Really looking forward to it.