Raiden Nova - RAIDEN IS BACK, and TWINSTICK-IER THAN EVER

[EmperorIng]

Looks like in mere months' time, we will have a new Raiden game by MOSS!


https://www.gematsu.com/2024/07/twin-st ... and-switch

Trailer

Seems like it will feature

Code: Select all

[*]Twinstick shooting
[*]Large (infinite scroll?) arenas
[*]Shop/upgrade system, and/or "permanent" (?) upgrade system
[*]Arcade (6 stage) and "Endless" modes

Uh, this comes as a surprise. Not sure if this will be good or not!

[Steven]

I have no idea what to even say. This was about the most unexpected thing that could have happened today. It looks really weird, but in a good way, so it's cool, I guess. Will insta-preorder once I find the PS5 limited edition somewhere, as they already opened preorders.

There is a thing on Sunday for this at Mikado. I guess I am going. Sato-san is going and it will be super nice to see to see him for the first time in a year and a half.

[BIL]

Ahh, a flawlessly masked right hook, I'm staring up at the lights wondering how I let it catch me, ate it like a chicken wing going for the prize. Well played ING-san.

I'm cautiously hopeful!

[Sumez]

Finally Raiden is a euroshump

[Steven]

Was V really that bad? I never played it, but I heard it was garbage. I kind of want to try it just to see how bad it is, but I have a feeling its badness will be less entertaining than I am hoping it would be.

[BIL]

Was V really that bad? I never played it, but I heard it was garbage. I kind of want to try it just to see how bad it is, but I have a feeling its badness will be less entertaining than I am hoping it would be.

I thought it was very good, honestly. A lot of strong players here loved it IIRC, I think Jaimers and Aquas to name two. My favourites of Moss's are Raiden IV and Caladrius Blaze, and lately I've warmed up to the brutal simplicity of Raiden III, but I wouldn't put V far behind them.

My only stern complaint was the poor bullet visibility at times, mostly stage 2's sandstorm. Sometimes it's the distant zoom, sometimes it's the bullet/bg contrast, sometimes both, as there. But that seems to be Moss's longterm achilles, arguably since Raiden 1 with its white space station, and definitely Mad Shark, a game I fought hard to love despite its weak contrast. Great stage designs, there, and contrast does level out past stage 3's tiring white factory.

As in those games, it's annoying but adjustable to. And IIRC the vast majority of the game is totally fine, it's just the usual desert/sunset stage bullshit. (one of many things I prefer about IV and CB; they seemed to make a real effort to keep the bullets popping off the BGs, there)

[cfx]

I never got to play any of the Raiden Fighters games since I never owned an Xbox 360 (and I don't do emulation, so I don't need to hear about that), so with that caveat, Raiden DX was the last Raiden game I liked.

I don't know if this is the case for anyone else, but for me Raiden V had two major things going against it before it was even released. That stupid online cheer system, and how that was a big feature of the promotional materials told me they were focusing on all the wrong things. This was the first game I remember xxx93 being an obnoxious cheerleader for here, where he was irrationally irritated at any negative comments about the direction the game was taking at all. Of course the game had more explicit story than any previous one which I guess was right up his alley.

So I can't fairly judge it.

I bought Caladrius Blaze for practically nothing in some PSN sale, and do like how it plays. I wish you could remove all of the ripped-off clothing images though, and the available options for that don't really accomplish much in my view. I'm not offended or outraged by that, but I'd just rather have a game more serious in tone by removal.


As far as the topic of this thread, I generally strongly dislike twinstick shooters, but I like Radirgy 2 and this does look potentially interesting from the video.
Assuming the music in the trailer is from the game, I find that a huge improvement over what's been in Raiden games starting with III.

[Steven]

Was V really that bad? I never played it, but I heard it was garbage. I kind of want to try it just to see how bad it is, but I have a feeling its badness will be less entertaining than I am hoping it would be.

I thought it was very good, honestly. A lot of strong players here loved it IIRC, I think Jaimers and Aquas to name two. My favourites of Moss's are Raiden IV and Caladrius Blaze, and lately I've warmed up to the brutal simplicity of Raiden III, but I wouldn't put V far behind them.

My only stern complaint was the poor bullet visibility at times, mostly stage 2's sandstorm. Sometimes it's the distant zoom, sometimes it's the bullet/bg contrast, sometimes both, as there. But that seems to be Moss's longterm achilles, arguably since Raiden 1 with its white space station, and definitely Mad Shark, a game I fought hard to love despite its weak contrast. Great stage designs, there, and contrast does level out past stage 3's tiring white factory.

As in those games, it's annoying but adjustable to. And IIRC the vast majority of the game is totally fine, it's just the usual desert/sunset stage bullshit. (one of many things I prefer about IV and CB; they seemed to make a real effort to keep the bullets popping off the BGs, there)

I think Raiden IV is the best Raiden game, even with the scoring system essentially being to spam the weird charge missiles and ignore the other scoring mechanics, so that gives me some hope. I've never played II, Viper Phase 1, or the Fighters games, though. V is like 900 yen on Steam now because of the sale. That sale ends in 9 hours and 15 minutes, so I might get it just out of curiosity, but if Jaimers said it's okay than it's probably mostly good.

[Daytime Waitress]

Man, these Vampire Survivors DLC packs are getting out of hand!

[retroware-uk]

I just signed up the forum today and the first post I notice if this one - such exciting news. Used to play Raiden in the arcades back in the day, such a favourite of mine Thank you for the news!

[D]

Has to be an april fools day joke.

[XoPachi]

Gross.

[Jeneki]

I can see why they named it Nova instead of 6. Spinoff game I guess.

[MJR]

I really want to root for and support everyone who tries to develop a shmup these days and earn a living, but..

..I guess I should just keep quiet and make a better game myself one day.

[XoPachi]

Was V really that bad? I never played it, but I heard it was garbage. I kind of want to try it just to see how bad it is, but I have a feeling its badness will be less entertaining than I am hoping it would be.

It was almost pretty good. Really it's problems could be addressed with options and more modes. The bosses suck though.

[Some-Mist]

sucks, that per usual it's being released only on consoles first, but I'm here for it

and I really enjoyed raiden v fwiw

[EmperorIng]

I can see why they named it Nova instead of 6. Spinoff game I guess.

maximo pointed out elsewhere that this is probably just taking the arena levels in that new macross game that everyone IMMEDIATELY forgot about and put some raiden models into it. Easy-peasy!

[Johnpv]

No thanks, not a twin stick shooter fan. This is not what I would want out of a new Raiden game.

[To Far Away Times]

Nova - Insert a space and it means "no go" in Spanish. And that looks like that applies here too.

Music is cool though.

[Barba]

I don't play twin stick games, never have, never will.

Other than that, I do hope they find some success with it, even though they tick a couple of wrong boxes, just because the companies in this genre need some money infusion.

[Sengoku Strider]

Was V really that bad? I never played it, but I heard it was garbage.

No, not garbage, it's a solid shooter with a bunch of annoying (and probably marketing guy driven) design choices bolted on top. Like a terrible story that you can't turn off. The characters never shut up and their dialogue sounds like it was written by a deer, and because of the stilted way they talk the plot's only semi-comprehensible. Like, "Sir, were the people able to escape?" "I don't know, all I know is that I'm authorized to attack them without hesitation." Who? The fleeing civilians? Did he suddenly switch topics mid-sentence to talking about the enemy? You can mute the volume but you can't make it go away, which allows you to always experience the annoying woman who insults you after every stage if you don't get 100% shot down.

It's also a home console game displayed in a vertical tate-esque window with huge sidebars for no reason. There is no tate mode, they just didn't use most of the screen because I dunno why. Most of the right bar is dedicated to the story, with a radar at the bottom you will never use because why wouldn't you just look directly at the playfield? Most of the left is dedicated to the cheer mode, where other people playing are supposed to be able to cheer you to give supers. But then Nintendo implemented paid online and that feature got walled behind it, so if you don't have that now you just have useless empty spaces:



You do get a thing in the lower left that shows your weapon power levels and shield, so I guess that portion's useable.

[Lander]

At last, the prodigal Thunder Force 2 gameplay model returns!

[hamfighterx]

Was V really that bad? I never played it, but I heard it was garbage. I kind of want to try it just to see how bad it is, but I have a feeling its badness will be less entertaining than I am hoping it would be.

I thought it was very good, honestly. A lot of strong players here loved it IIRC, I think Jaimers and Aquas to name two. My favourites of Moss's are Raiden IV and Caladrius Blaze, and lately I've warmed up to the brutal simplicity of Raiden III, but I wouldn't put V far behind them.

I would never call myself a "strong player", but I thought it was pretty good too! I think that part of the lukewarm reception was also due to the intial release being exclusive to Xbox One. A lot of people didn't have or didn't want to get that console, so they somewhat dismissed the game and didn't really give it a fair shake. I'm not sure that reputation (or lack thereof) ever fully went away, even when the game was later ported to other platforms.

The story stuff and navigator chatter was indeed a little annoying - feels like maybe they were chasing some Saidaioujou design elements when they did THAT (but they forgot to include a way for the player to choose how risqué your navigator's outfits are, a key element of SDOJ).

The soundtrack by Yoshimi Kudo is absolutely stellar. Maybe the biggest highlight of the game, and I say that as someone who likes the game.

Uh, this comes as a surprise. Not sure if this will be good or not!

And back on topic... uh, yeah. That.

[Fingolfin]

At last, the prodigal Thunder Force 2 gameplay model returns!

Overhead stages of Thunder Force 2 was exactly what came to mind after I saw the Raiden Nova trailer!

Worst of both worlds/franchises?

Although it looks like it might be a twin stick shooter but is not, the title of Raiden Nova also made me think of PC/Steam Nova Drift too https://store.steampowered.com/app/858210/Nova_Drift/

[XoPachi]

What are generally the main concerns people have with twinstick games here? I'm not a fan of Raiden suddenly shifting gears to this because I don't see how you get any of Raiden's core playstyle out of that. But a lot of people here seem to not like twin stick games in general. I'm curious.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Yeah Raiden V has a few bullet visibility issues and is a bit long (and I seem to recall the Director's Cut made it even longer?) but is otherwise solid. I found the zooming in/out to be unnecessary and took a lot of adjusting to, but that was my only major gripe. No idea what cheer does, never worked for me on xbone so I assume it needed xbox live.

But this looks horrible. Maybe arcade mode will be a proper vertical shooter? Twin sticks are like Metroidvanias - fucking everywhere and I'm not overly fussed even by the great ones. Never grew up with twin sticks so my brain struggles, seizes up and I end up strafing while locked in one direction for ages - free aim with hold to lock fire direction, it processes that much faster.

[KAI]

Hell yeah!! its 0 Day Attack on Earth 2!
Its not a coincidence both games have music by go sato, this was their plan all along.

[Fingolfin]

What are generally the main concerns people have with twinstick games here? I'm not a fan of Raiden suddenly shifting gears to this because I don't see how you get any of Raiden's core playstyle out of that. But a lot of people here seem to not like twin stick games in general. I'm curious.

Though it took me a while to get used to it, I do (now) understand why the shmups.system11 community chose to differentiate between auto-scrolling vertical and horizontal STGs — or “proper” shmups — vs twin stick shooters, run ‘n guns, rail shooters, etc.

However personally, I still see all these arcade STG subgenres as “shooters” and am a huge fan of arcade twin stick shooters!

How can anyone enjoy arcade shooters/STGs and yet somehow not enjoy Battlezone, Robotron 2084, Black Widow, Space Dungeon, Ikari Warriors, Smash TV and Total Carnage?

Yes the control schemes are different but the shooting action’s equally vibrant and compelling!

It just doesn’t make any sense to me but of course taste, preferences, etc and also De gustibus non est disputandum (perhaps worth pointing out that that quotation is NOT an ancient Roman author writing in Classical Latin offering sage wisdom but is rather Medieval Latin (based on analysis of style) — so probably just a middling monk of the Middle Ages engaging in some sophistry of sorts (I jest of course)).

I don’t get it — “Tarnation! You’ll never catch me playin’ one of those nonstandard shooting games with the double fisting control schemes — it’s most unnatural, it is”

[Bassa-Bassa]

The worst part is that these are not really "twin stick shooters", but "analog sticks shooters" for stupid control pads despite the digital displacement.

[BIL]

I would never call myself a "strong player", but I thought it was pretty good too! I think that part of the lukewarm reception was also due to the intial release being exclusive to Xbox One. A lot of people didn't have or didn't want to get that console, so they somewhat dismissed the game and didn't really give it a fair shake. I'm not sure that reputation (or lack thereof) ever fully went away, even when the game was later ported to other platforms.

Accidental elitism on my part there Yeah, I seem to remember it doing quite well here back then; at least compared to the grim pre-release runup, as the cod-SDOJ stuff was revealed. Definitely some controversy, but not the whipping boy I'd expected. I didn't have a system for it until years later, but I immediately wanted to look it up again, once I did.

How can anyone enjoy arcade shooters/STGs and yet somehow not enjoy Battlezone, Robotron 2084, Black Widow, Space Dungeon, Ikari Warriors, Smash TV and Total Carnage?

Twinstick arenas (Robotron), push-scrolling topdowns (Ikari), and even topdown seek/destroys (Assault) are all fine in the HS forum, and here. Been at least fifteen years now. They're informally designated as borderline, that's all. Unlike Gun.Smoke, Elemental Master, and Guwange et al, scrolling STGs that happen to feature ground-based characters and stage designs. Those have been unambiguously on topic as far back I can remember. (2002?)

I still prefer to talk about Ikari and Kiki etc in Other Gaming; just comfier to have the option of jumping straight to Contra and Slug, I suppose. I grew up with them as a "run/gun" collective, long before really getting into STGs. It was amusing discovering stuff like Bosconian, which is pretty much Assault In Space, and arguably saw a resurgence in Assault's own spiritual sequel, Metal Hawk.

Subgenres, hours of fun!