Shmups as an eSport

[DMC]

In a clash between masters, victory rests upon the final desperation technique "FLYING SHART"

It's not gonna be clean, no.

I assume you guys have seen the Kumite competitions Aktane, Rezardi and Mark have set up at various times?

Yes, these Kumite and Shmup Slam events are a great service to the community, lot's of entertaining runs there.

Two skilled players going head-to-head on arcade cabinets in front of an live audience, preferably with some commentary, is for me the peak in terms of STG demonstrations.
For example, Plasmo vs. Eaglet on Battle Garegga and Fufufu vs SPS in DDP DOJ. Unfourtunately, there are not that many games where two or more players from the community are actively playing at a top level.

[Technicolor]

I'll have to check out those Kumite tournaments, it sounds like an interesting format!

Regarding all the money talk... personally, I was envisioning something more grassroots anyway. I think small pot bonuses might be fine, but I don't think you need money on the table for any of it-- The genre being so niche means it'd inevitably stay on the amateur side anyway, at least short-term. I just think that coming up with different types of tournaments would be a nice way to expand the forms of competition in this genre. Maybe get a few shmups designed specifically for that kind of play, that'd be neat.

...Say, maybe a co-op mode with separate scores would be something. Infinite lives, aimed bullets alternate between players, so you're incentivized to try and juke around them to create weird patterns they'll get hit by. Could do fun stuff with bombing and aimed revenge bullets too... hm.

[Air Master Burst]

There are already exhibition spectator events, so it's probably an inevitability. It's just waiting for someone to come up with the right game. Things like Twinkle Star Sprites or Kingdom Grand Prix are probably the better direction. I can't think of an established eSport game that doesn't involve direct head to head competition.

I would kill for a proper multiplayer iteration on Kingdom Grand Prix, I adore that game.

For now though, Twinkle Star Sprites and Change Air Blade are probably the best bet for a proper tournament setup. Rival Megagun also exists, although I have no idea if it actually improves on TSS any.

[Randorama]

E-Sports revolve around people willing to pay money to see other people playing videogames. Is there a market for it? No? Can it be created and convince that it is interesting enough? Capitalism really is simple.

In the realm of Walter Mitty fantasies, though, I'd be happy to occasionally pirate a streaming event of team-playing Tatsujin and see who counter-stops the game first: teams of three people who can then develop their own strategies to achieve victory ("You clear the 21st loop while I take a shower. At the 22nd loop, you go and buy a bento for dinner"). Of course, I'd find the stream on some pirate website and possibly troll the event's organisers about it.

Then again, people watch NFL, Baseball, Association Football, Cricket, Cycling, F1, Nascar, Opera (!!), and pr0n (!!!) and *even* pay for it. Imagine the entertainment of watching the 321st match between Italy and Germany, valid for the 57th inter-departmental football cup! Humans are mysterious creatures, indeed!

EDIT: Apparently, there is a thing called "Stadium/Arena D&D", which is "people paying to watch other people playing D&D". I cannot find links as I am probably mis-remembering the precise name. Air Master Burst, brush off your dice and we are going to make tons of $$$ in no time

Hopefully MJR sees this thread and enjoys reading it

[Sima Tuna]

The money aspect is really the major point. The FGC spent years as a rather small organization with tiny cash prizes and most people in the community giving up a lot for the love of the game. It wasn't until arguably SF4 and massive amounts of Capcom dollars being pumped into the events that the FGC went relatively mainstream and became an even remotely reasonable return-on-investment proposition for professional players. If you're going to ask somebody to play Tekken for 10 hours a day, they're going to want some fucking money for that.

The FGC has Capcom, Namco-Bandai, Arc System Works and Netherrealm Software/WB. All pushing money, to greater or lesser extent, into fighting games. And all making NEW fighting games which they use the FGC to market and keep alive (the esport keeps their game longevity going and allows them to market more games-as-service features and future paid updates.) There are joystick manufacturers like Hori and computer companies who pay out big for ad space to sell their products to the people watching Evo from home. When you look at the number of companies with a financial stake in keeping events like Evo alive, it's just not comparable to anything in shmups. If we had... ONE... Triple-A company making, promoting and marketing shmups in the gaming landscape, every shmup youtube channel would be flipping their shit and talking about shmup evo. But we just don't. There is no (living!) company out there right now who is the shmup equivalent of Capcom or Bandai-Namco. Who is willing to invest that kind of money into a) making a brand new shmup of AAA quality and b) spending additional money on top to pay out cash prizes, organize events and provide incentives to third party businesses (like Hori.)

For sure, the FGC started with a lot of passionate people and shmups have a lot of passionate people too. But there's a limit to what that will get you in a capitalist society. Either you bring a megacorporation onboard or you get a billionaire sugar daddy shmup fan to bankroll everything. I think people like Mark and Aktane are doing everything anybody could expect or hope for given they seem to be regular people and not trust fund 1%ers.

That's leaving aside the issue of whether or not shmups can appeal to a wider audience. But just assuming they can, when you look at all the esports that have managed to take off, all the ones I can recall had at least one massive company behind them. Blizzard, Bamco, Capcom, Valve, Epic, EA... It's not an accident things work out that way. It isn't some mistake that Overwatch became a big deal esport while Anarchy Reigns flopped. The esports scene runs on money and that's just a sad fact. The best fighting games in the world languish in fan/side/community/online tourneys, while the newest and biggest AAA fighting games get center stage at Evo. If SF7 came out tomorrow, SF6 would be side tourney meat by the end of the year.

[Randorama]

ST:

my central point is that the current chances that some people here could become e-sporters are currently next to minus infinite because there is currently no demand for such an offer. Frankly, the lack of demand should mostly hinge on the fact that capitalist ventures have not created so far: if people don't want a product, companies will find a way to create the craving (e.g. any type of processed/junk food).

The list of sports I mentioned is not casual: Association Football is one of the two truly global sports, the other being basketball, and has global appeal even if matches can often end in no goals being scored, rules are often obscure and counter-intuitive (e.g. off-side, no use of hands), and some winning strategies like "Tiki Taka" result in absurdly boring matches.

Any European (male, usually) will however tell you that football is highly entertaining because it gives them a way to be tribal and cheer for their favourite team or boo the other team (and, for hooligans, start completely pointless fights). The kazillions of money that teams spend on players also tend to excite fans, I believe. Actual action on the pitch? I cannot find statistics, but I wonder if it matters beyond winning.

(Maybe) stranger things have happened: in Tennis, it was all because of Rod Laver. Still, some people here seem to navigate to their '50s and indulge in Walter Mitty fantasies that are...a known phenomenon in psychology (this one is also free).

I believe that the original OP should be Chinese, a country in which E-sports went from "basically illegal" to "state-sanctioned profession" (too lazy to check links). The market (here) in China is huge and I can watch people streaming King Of Fighters matches 24/7 on WeChat TV (one channel per title, with '98 usually having multiple channels). My colleagues from slightly younger generations (below 40, I am 44) go to public events when possible, but for LoL and similar titles. I guess that his post/question was influenced by this context, not by an *actual* understanding of how e-sports (and capitalism) work.

"Shmup professional players"...lads, please. I mean, please keep going because I am larfing my ass off while I type this I am very happy if the guys you mention can actually make a profit of their organisational efforts with shmups, and I wish that their success will increase over time, to be fair. Maybe one day they'll find the winning formula for the masses, or a niche big enough to actually be profitable for many.

EDIT:

I just recalled that the E-sports (association) football team for Italy is paid by the Italian football federation (i.e. the guys administering the "real" professional sport), and roguhly 71% of Italian athletes at the Olympics were from military corps (e.g. people paid to train and compete in sports). I think that a pitch for videogames at the Olympics could raise the chances of e.g. the navy forming a "shmup players battalion" to win the cold war of medals

P.S.

A nice bit I found on Escapism. I am guilty as charged of it, but self-deprecation is a subtle art easily misunderstood on the intarwebs.

P.P.S.

Can shmups be made appealing to the masses? My meme-tastic answer is that corporate overlords may one day say (first time I have ever inserted an image):

[PC Engine Fan X!]

It's well-known that Sony bought the rights to promote/host Evo with it's super deep "unlimited" monetary pockets. It goes to show that Sony is serious enough to bankroll Evo to keep it up & running big time. Shmups as an eSport is possible if more competitive "head to head" stg titles are released/developed. Monetary prizes on the line will only further spur players to strive to do their best and is a very strong incentive/motivator.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Lemnear]

It's well-known that Sony bought the rights to promote/host Evo with it's super deep "unlimited" monetary pockets. It goes to show that Sony is serious enough to bankroll Evo to keep it up & running big time. Shmups as an eSport is possible if more competitive "head to head" stg titles are released/developed. Monetary prizes on the line will only further spur players to strive to do their best and is a very strong incentive/motivator.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

not to say anything, but the Olympics were just now and many sports were solo and people competed for records.
Then you do it the same way, 1 Credit, whoever has the highest score at that time wins.

[davyK]

Nice! Will be watching that.