Analogue 3D - new N64 console

[Lord of Pirates]

Are Analogue products really that good, though? They promise 1:1 FPGA hardware clones and that's never been delivered as far as I'm aware, with bugfix patches that come years later, if they ever come. Not to mention the DAC fiasco.

Mediocre or up to not bad provided it's something they bother to fix issues for. I had a Pocket briefly and recall the screen being nice but that's about it, can't stand the form factor. What happened with their DAC?

[SavagePencil]

What happened with their DAC?

I think that's what everyone who bought one is asking, too.

[Guspaz]

I can't use my Analogue DAC with my Super Nt or Mega Sg because it doesn't output a well-formed sync signal and so the RetroTINK 5X Pro can't handle it, and I can't use my Analogue DAC with my Analogue Pocket because two years after launch they still don't support it.

The DAC also has a myriad of other issues beyond the wonky sync output, such as the left and right audio channels being reversed and major colour issues with certain output signal types, none of which they've fixed in the 4+ years since it launched. Not a single firmware update for it.

[Lord of Pirates]

What happened with their DAC?

I think that's what everyone who bought one is asking, too.

I can't use my Analogue DAC with my Super Nt or Mega Sg because it doesn't output a well-formed sync signal and so the RetroTINK 5X Pro can't handle it, and I can't use my Analogue DAC with my Analogue Pocket because two years after launch they still don't support it.

The DAC also has a myriad of other issues beyond the wonky sync output, such as the left and right audio channels being reversed and major colour issues with certain output signal types, none of which they've fixed in the 4+ years since it launched. Not a single firmware update for it.

Thanks for the detailed info.

[Bassa-Bassa]

It's even worse than I thought then.

[TooBeaucoup]

It's been brought up plenty, but I'm still convinced that Analogue, themselves, are a majority of the scalpers. Release an extremely limited number, so a small amount of real people can buy them, then have another few hundred set aside and slowly trickle them out yourselves on eBay for 2-3x the retail price. Nobody would ever know. With how Analogue runs things with their stupid pre-orders and teasers for products and then more teasers for a pre-order date, just to make people wait 2 years for shipment. I wouldn't be surprised if they scalped they own stuff. Just blame it on the scalpers, and you don't look 100% like the bad guy/scumbag company.

[Josh128]

Agree, custom art clothing companies do the same thing with teenagers-- have pre release "teasers" and countdown timer to when you can buy the new stuff, and release only a very limited amount and ridiculously overprice them. I know, because my daughter was feverishly scrambling to buy some shit sold like that not long ago-- she had her own money so I let her buy it, but I advised her not to because she was being manipulated into spending much more than the products are worth.

As a matter of principle, I strive to NEVER pay more than MSRP for stuff like this, and if I can tell the companies are purposely driving up the price, I strive to avoid their products altogether.

As far as FPGA consoles go, they are cool, but their only desireable feature is that they play original cartridges. They 100% are "emulators". They just emulate hardware using a different method than software emulators do.

[ZellSF]

As far as FPGA consoles go, they are cool, but their only desireable feature is that they play original cartridges.

The popularity of the MiSTer is proof this isn't true.

[bobrocks95]

As far as FPGA consoles go, they are cool, but their only desireable feature is that they play original cartridges.

The popularity of the MiSTer is proof this isn't true.

Both are popular and both statements are true. I'd have a Mister if it supported original cartridges. Instead I have a SuperNT. Analogue is covering a market segment that is oddly neglected imo.

[ZellSF]

He said the only thing feature FPGA consoles offers over emulation is support for cartridges. Then why are people getting a MiSTer, a FPGA console without cartridge support? Or for that matter, why don't Analogue's customers just get a Retron?

[spmbx]

Fomo plus cute plastic shell.

[Bassa-Bassa]

I don't think Josh128 was including the Mister or anything else than Analogue systems when he used "FPGA consoles" in his statement.

[bobrocks95]

He said the only thing feature FPGA consoles offers over emulation is support for cartridges. Then why are people getting a MiSTer, a FPGA console without cartridge support? Or for that matter, why don't Analogue's customers just get a Retron?

I actually misread Josh's comment and thought he meant that the only thing that *Analogue's* FPGA consoles have over emulators is the cartridge slot. Analogue and Mister co-exist just fine, I'm just confused why nobody else is doing Analogue's thing just with licensed cores. RetroUSB AVS is the only other option I know of.

[ZellSF]

Still, if that's the only thing Analogue has over emulators, why not just get a Retron?

I don't like Analogue's products, but there's more to them than cartridge slots and FOMO.

[Josh128]

I was referring specifically to the Analogue consoles, MiSTer is not what I would consider a console, does not come with controllers, and does not play cartridges as far as I know. Before anyone gets riled up, let me clarify my previous comment - I believe MiSTer is the better choice for FPGA emulation of classic hardware, with Analogues only obvious advantage being that it plays original cartridges. But to be clear, thats a pretty unique advantage.

[neorichieb1971]

I believe Analogue put more options. Retrons just run at 720p right?

Then you have analogue outputs on some of them. You have varied scanline options, resolutions, audio options.
You can use original controllers.
The hardware is built to quite a high standard.
The consoles look something like the original.
Nowadays powered by USB-C.
The Duo has a CDROM disc drive.

[ZellSF]

Josh128's clarification makes sense.

I don't think anyone here would recommend a Retron.

[Josh128]

I havent looked at Retron in a very long time, but unless somethings changed, they were far inferior to available x86 emulators in many ways. That said, it could still be a viable option if the price is right, e.g. "cheap".

[neorichieb1971]

According to those that have them, Retrons are handy for capturing youtubes since the 5 has slots for 3 or 4 consoles. You can also do translation patches easily. I think thats where the perks end.

[ldeveraux]

Aren't Retron (and RetroPie, Batocera, etc) emulators, where the benefit of the FPGA is direct lossless play?

[Bassa-Bassa]

Ideal FPGA is lossless play (as is ideal traditional emulation, anyway). But seems Analogue's implementations are not close to it even today.

The hardware is built to quite a high standard.

Reports at least of the cartridge slots being way more picky than the original consoles' are not few, though.

[neorichieb1971]

Ideal FPGA is lossless play (as is ideal traditional emulation, anyway). But seems Analogue's implementations are not close to it even today.

The hardware is built to quite a high standard.

Reports at least of the cartridge slots being way more picky than the original consoles' are not few, though.

Well I believe the NT noir cartridge slot is less than 1" deep and the western NES carts are about 8" high. Unlike the original NES which lays the cartridge flat the Noir has it straight up. I have a noir but I've never put a USA cart in it, I use the Famicom slot which seems fine to me. From what I learnt about the slot it was made 2 or 3 mm bigger than the cart to comply with some slightly larger carts that were unofficial (or something like that). By doing that they made it a bit wobbly as 80% of the cart is sticking out. The pins lose contact if shaken and the game crashes on offical carts when this happens. It is exclusive to the noir though from my recollection of reading about it.

The main attaction to me with Analogue consoles is not having to modify/refurb old consoles. Especially this RGB modding scene which just eats your money like its going out of fashion. In respect of going back to the original topic, the N64 is one such console where this is a huge attraction. The Analogue 3D might perform better than the original hardware, have HDMI output, have resolution manipulation and filters and still cost less than a HDMI mod on an original console. It will be region free out of the box.

to me, having all that in one nice package is absolutely brilliant. I can even offset the cost by selling 2 N64's and a Rad 2x cable.

[fernan1234]

It's never the same. None of these cores are 100% accurate, not even the MiSTer ones (though those get much closer than any corresponding Analogue cores). Of course, like with emulation, you may never bump into the edge cases, and that's why these clone consoles have a market.

Personally it only takes one time to feel that I should just go back to OG hardware, and I'm not alone on that. That's why there will always be someone up to buy your N64s, modded or not. It is nice to have options, especially when the original hardware gets too annoying. I keep a MiSTer around and I whip it out from time to time, and also have a Noir. May get a Pocket too at some point. This 3D probably not though, N64 once modded properly is more than good enough and will never have some weird inaccuracy or incompatibility.

[spmbx]

The Analogue 3D might perform better than the original hardware, have HDMI output, have resolution manipulation and filters and still cost less than a HDMI mod on an original console.

Being from europe i can say that for my territory, getting an analogue console, then add the shipping and taxes totals more than i would pay for an hdmi modded original console.
Another thing that annoys me immensely is that this company has zero communucation about anything whatsoever. They could ship it without 1440p support leaving you completely oblivious about if, and if so when that feature will be coming. Or they could ship it with some crippling bug in said feature and again leave you completely in the dark about if, and if so within what timeframe you could expect that feature to work. How anyone can pay these guys for that kind of crap i will never understand.
You can replace 1440p support with just about any other feature you can think of, it's just a random example.

[neorichieb1971]

The Analogue 3D might perform better than the original hardware, have HDMI output, have resolution manipulation and filters and still cost less than a HDMI mod on an original console.

Being from europe i can say that for my territory, getting an analogue console, then add the shipping and taxes totals more than i would pay for an hdmi modded original console.
Another thing that annoys me immensely is that this company has zero communucation about anything whatsoever. They could ship it without 1440p support leaving you completely oblivious about if, and if so when that feature will be coming. Or they could ship it with some crippling bug in said feature and again leave you completely in the dark about if, and if so within what timeframe you could expect that feature to work. How anyone can pay these guys for that kind of crap i will never understand.
You can replace 1440p support with just about any other feature you can think of, it's just a random example.

I'm just a plug n play type of person. Its quite possible that the anomalies you are experiencing are outside of my remit.

I recently tried playing one of my Sfc carts on a SFC original hardware on my flat screen. I noticed that there is drop out everytime the resolution changes. When I play the same cartridge on the Super NT, I don't get that at all. I didn't even notice any resolution change on the Super NT. So for me I see mainly positives, not negatives.

Shoot me down if you like, but I set all mine to 720p with scanlines as I feel that is the most RGB like picture I can reproduce.

I get all your concerns though, because the Analogue 3D is going to be a bit of a special case piece of hardware. There is a lot of complex instructions and a lot that can go wrong compared to a 8bit/16 bit machine. Its also a piece of hardware that Nintendo themselves have shied away from for whatever reason. no1 reason probably being price point.

[Josh128]

What SFC games dont display in 240P? Ive never played a single one that changed to 480i.

[neorichieb1971]

Well lets assume a rad2x or a component cable that derives its signal from RGB cuts out when the resolution changes, lets say that constitutes a resolution change, because I don't know for a fact.

The cartrdge was Tetris 3.

I had a faulty component cable which didn't display red. I was using Tetris 3 as an easy cart to test because the game shows all colours easily.

Once I replaced the cable and it tested fine, I started playing it. Between title screen and gameplay there is a blackout each way. On the Super NT its seamless.

[Johnpv]

What SFC games dont display in 240P? Ive never played a single one that changed to 480i.

There are a bunch of games that use the SNES' high resolution mode for aspects of the interface or part of the game screen. A handful of them are also in interlaced mode. You can read more about it here. https://snes.nesdev.org/wiki/Uncommon_g ... mode_games

[ldeveraux]

I recently tried playing one of my Sfc carts on a SFC original hardware on my flat screen. I noticed that there is drop out everytime the resolution changes. When I play the same cartridge on the Super NT, I don't get that at all. I didn't even notice any resolution change on the Super NT. So for me I see mainly positives, not negatives.

Oh this is interesting. I've never been an Analogue supporter, but this is the first real advantage I've seen over the alternatives. I wonder if a Mister core or standard emulator can claim this? Or a Retron for whatever it's worth.

[fernan1234]

I recently tried playing one of my Sfc carts on a SFC original hardware on my flat screen. I noticed that there is drop out everytime the resolution changes. When I play the same cartridge on the Super NT, I don't get that at all. I didn't even notice any resolution change on the Super NT. So for me I see mainly positives, not negatives.

Oh this is interesting. I've never been an Analogue supporter, but this is the first real advantage I've seen over the alternatives. I wonder if a Mister core or standard emulator can claim this? Or a Retron for whatever it's worth.

There's nothing special about this. Anything with a framebuffer will take care of these dropouts, at the cost of either extra latency.