Regarding input lag in Psikyo games in MAME

[Buffi]

Was curious why people like to complain about this.
Turns out the early Psikyo games have a lot of lag on pcb as well, and MAME is in fact accurate.

See https://buffis.com/research/input-lag-i ... s-in-mame/ for info, input lag test pics and more.

TL;DR: Old Psikyo games have 4 frames of input lag in MAME. They do on PCB too, so its fine.

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

Not exactly knowledgable on why this is a thing, but the way I see it, lag is lag. It's undesirable, even if it's not due to emulation. Lag bad

[m.sniffles.esq]

Was curious why people like to complain about this.

Doesn't matter, four frames is UNACCEPTABLE
The devs need to get Doc and the DeLorean and PATCH THIS IMMEDIATELY

[Bassa-Bassa]

It'd be interesting to verify how the Saturn port of Sengoku Blade behaves against the PCB. Never found it particularly laggy (albait not exactly the most responsive either) and the console's specs are closer to Psikyo's 2nd generation hardware than the 1st.

By the way, thanks for improving Mame's emulation lately, Buffi. Not only Psikyo.

[Tatsuya79]

Check Guardian Force.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Yeah, and there're recent reports on S. Gurentai as well, but those are STV games which make sense that they got improved with the Saturn versions, which kind of work as revisions of the same code in a way. I'm a bit more interested in knowing how it was with ports from different hardware.

[Steven]

*Is the dude who is incapable of detecting input lag in Guardian Force on a real ST-V*

[SPM]

The early Psikyo ports on Steam have better input lag than MAME, it's infuriating. At least that's been my experience with them (same PC, same arcade stick).

[Meriscan]

The early Psikyo ports on Steam have better input lag than MAME, it's infuriating. At least that's been my experience with them (same PC, same arcade stick).

Definitely! The Steam port feels way smoother for early Psikyo. But late Psikyo is slightly less responsive than what you can get in MAME.

[Jeneki]

Guardian Force is so awesome it stays in my yearly top-25 despite the latency.

[Tatsuya79]

I 've been looking at Guardian Force again:

-7 frames to react on MAME
-6 frames on Kronos
-6 frames for mednafen saturn, which is usually 1 frame shorter than Kronos but not here

Using the console version with beetle-saturn and retroarch (6 frames as well) I can remove 2 frames with runahead on a Ryzen 5600X, but that's a different story.

[Sumez]

Not exactly knowledgable on why this is a thing, but the way I see it, lag is lag. It's undesirable, even if it's not due to emulation. Lag bad

I guess the implication here is that you can't blame MAME, which we want to always be as accurate to hardware as possible. Fixing it in mame would probably need to be a rom hack, rather than an emu hack.

[Buffi]

Not exactly knowledgable on why this is a thing, but the way I see it, lag is lag. It's undesirable, even if it's not due to emulation. Lag bad

I guess the implication here is that you can't blame MAME, which we want to always be as accurate to hardware as possible. Fixing it in mame would probably need to be a rom hack, rather than an emu hack.

You can easily hack the mame driver to remove some buffering and reduce the frame-rate the same way that shmupmame does it, but it will be less accurate to the original hardware, which is not desirable for the MAME project.

[Bassa-Bassa]

I think that's what Sumez meant - Mame will never support an emulation hack like that officially, but build a rom hack which somehow can get a physical PCB format and Mame will include it a la Metal Slug 2 Turbo.

[Sumez]

What I meant is probably somewhere inbetween. I expected the lag in the Psikyo games in question was probably a software thing. But if it's a hardware buffer (and thus emulated by mame, and not fixable in a rom hack), I guess you'll have to either put up with it or create an unofficial fork with a fix

[Tatsuya79]

Just play them in FBNeo, it has run ahead even on stand-alone.