Raiden III x MIKADO MANIAX

[davyK]

If the Switch port is compromised I'll be holding onto my PS2 version (even if it isn't I will likely keep it as it's the PAL version which is quite rare).

That drop in speed at level 4 in that video is alarming....not sure a patch will correct that, unless it's heavily unoptimised and rushed out for multi-platform launch...

I went back to the old PC port last night that I got through Steam a year ago and messed about in Score Attack mode set at Arcade level.

The ship movement on PC isn't as slow as I remember - I'm wondering is the PS2 port lumbered with slower ship speed....must boot it up and compare it. I had to go to Easy to get my 1CC on PS2.

[DenimDemon]

There’s some slowdown on later stages on Switch yes. Nothing shocking I reckon…I’ve been had a lot of fun with this game. Really happy I got it.

[davyK]

If I hadn't played it on PS2 and Steam I'd probably not care about the performance on Switch as much - but I have - so I do...

I'll probably get it Digital for Steam at some point. In the meantime I'm enjoying it on PS2 and the old port on Steam - going back to it and trying the levels at Arcade level. I booted up the PS2 port again and the ship speed is faster than I remember. It's still a bit of a widowmaker game though as that bullet speed at the higher levels is brutal.

I can't get the old PC port to work with my pad for double mode which is a bummer - and why I'll probably bite at some point. It's a laugh just trying to play it even at lower levels.

[spadgy]

Didn't notice a bit of slowdown on the PS5 version... mainly playing doubleplay, which I fairly rinsed (mediocre skills!) on Ps2 and a little on arcade hardware. Feel I would have noticed it there. Anyone else on the PS5 version? How you finding it!?

[Steven]

So Switch version is semi-compromised but still playable, then. I have nothing to compare it with since I've never played any version of this game or even seen it running, but I might pick it up for Switch handheld mode while I wait for the PC version. I do hope they fix the Switch version.

[DenimDemon]

I’ve sunk some decent time on the Switch port…really dig the raw gameplay of Raiden 3.
One of these days will boot up the ps2 version just to see how it fares. Once I unpack from out last move…

[Rastan78]

Don't know if Raiden III x Mikado is the same, but the PS4 version of IV tested with super extra crispy response, while the native PS5 has over double the input lag.

https://twitter.com/noodalls/status/162 ... 4VmYA&s=19

Not like the lag on the PS5 version is horrendous although I'd imagine saving a full 2 frames of delay makes the PS4 version the one to get.

[pulsemod]

that reminds me, I read something about running PS4 games on PS5 increasing latency compared to on PS4 itself. is that true at all, or is it just typical that PS5 native versions have more latency due to engine quirks? (as seems to be the case with the PS5 raiden iv)

[Steven]

I heard about that too, but seeing PS5 Raiden IV having that much more lag than PS4 Raiden IV is surprising and disappointing. How does that even happen? Out of those PS4 Raiden IV seems to be the outlier, though, which itself is interesting. Raiden III numbers and also Switch and PC numbers would also be interesting to see.

[Rastan78]

It's weird although kind of common. There are a bunch of fighting games that are slower on PS5 native version than PS4 with back compat. Might have to do with the fact that they're all using Unreal these days? Either way it's not a hard rule bc some games are the other way around which kinda makes more sense to me at least. Sort of sad to shell out for a PS5 version and get something less optimized.

[Steven]

If anything, it might make more sense for the PS4 version on PS5 to have more lag than the native PS5 version because it has to use the backwards compatibility functionality, but it's still weird. I think I'm going to keep my PS4 for a while.

[cfx]

.

[DenimDemon]

I'm certainly keeping my PS4.

I can't muster up any desire to buy a PS5. I'm sure eventually PS4 new releases will dry up, but I'm old and I have more than enough games already that I'll be dead before I can ever play, so I think once the PS4 generation ends, then it's time for me to tap out of buying new consoles and games. It's getting increasingly difficult to afford hobbies with prices of necessities like food out of control.

PS5 costs too much, it's too large, and too ugly, and I hate the new controller. I have carpal tunnel issues so only certain controllers work for me, and the new controller isn't one that I can use without pain. The system offers me nothing because I have no interest in the only types of games that take any graphical advantage of whatever it can do. I don't have a 4K tv and don't plan to buy one.

I found it hard to discern the real lag issues from people talking nonsense, but it seems like the new controller in itself causes more lag? Maybe that's wrong but I found a number of references to that.

You just sumed my take with PS5 or any other new box. Yeah I’m keeping my Pro till retirement. Pro/Switch/Classic stuff pretty much cover all my needs. The Series S looks damn fine tough ( and reasonable priced ).

[pulsemod]

It's weird although kind of common. There are a bunch of fighting games that are slower on PS5 native version than PS4 with back compat. Might have to do with the fact that they're all using Unreal these days? Either way it's not a hard rule bc some games are the other way around which kinda makes more sense to me at least. Sort of sad to shell out for a PS5 version and get something less optimized.

yeah, there were at least latency issues with a version of unreal engine on PS5 earlier on which was supposedly resolved, but having to ship a game like that without having the ability to fix it is definitely a major issue with using these huge game engines that might not prioritize something like latency.

other info on whether PS4 backwards compat adds latency, or the new controller adds latency, etc., all I've seen has been very anecdotal and in the realm of people who like to blame it all on not having an expensive gamer TV. or make a blanket statement on PS5 being worse overall due to unreal's messup.
it's been hard to find anything actually concrete, which is why I'm hoping someone's at least tried measuring PS4 backwards compat vs native PS4 of the same game on the same setup somewhere.

[BrianC]

I doubt it's the PS5 controller adding lag since the controller has low lag both when plugged in and on BT. Telling by the lag results, it seems to differ depending on game and some have the same amout of lag or less on PS5. Results are often different between PS4 OG/Slim and PS4 Pro, as well. PS4 on PS5 also supports PS4 Pro features and often (but not always) has similar results.

[Rastan78]

I'm certainly keeping my PS4.

I can't muster up any desire to buy a PS5. I'm sure eventually PS4 new releases will dry up, but I'm old and I have more than enough games already that I'll be dead before I can ever play, so I think once the PS4 generation ends, then it's time for me to tap out of buying new consoles and games. It's getting increasingly difficult to afford hobbies with prices of necessities like food out of control.

PS5 costs too much, it's too large, and too ugly, and I hate the new controller. I have carpal tunnel issues so only certain controllers work for me, and the new controller isn't one that I can use without pain. The system offers me nothing because I have no interest in the only types of games that take any graphical advantage of whatever it can do. I don't have a 4K tv and don't plan to buy one.

I found it hard to discern the real lag issues from people talking nonsense, but it seems like the new controller in itself causes more lag? Maybe that's wrong but I found a number of references to that.

You just sumed my take with PS5 or any other new box. Yeah I’m keeping my Pro till retirement. Pro/Switch/Classic stuff pretty much cover all my needs. The Series S looks damn fine tough ( and reasonable priced ).

I feel exactly the same, as it seems a lot of other people around here do. I could basically be stranded on an island for the next 20 years and not need to buy new games. Perfectly happy with my vanilla PS4.

I've always been perfectly happy with 1080p and didn't see any big reason for games to push higher. Thought I would never buy a 4K TV. That said I did soften on that and upgraded to an LG OLED bought at a big discount.

I'm glad I did bc of the huge upgrades over my old set in response time, contrast and motion clarity. I had thought oh 4K is bullshit. That's only for people playing The Last of Us or whatever AAA cinematic experience of the day. Truth is you get very close to the old CRT levels of performance on these new sets.

Not saying everyone should run out and buy a pricy TV. Just don't overlook the benefits of playing on them even if you don't give a rats ass about 4K. For example OLED plus a mister would provide an excellent experience.

[BIL]

Just tossing in my confirmation, PS4 ver runs beautifully. Burning shrapnel spraying all over the place just like God and Jebus intended.

Also, that game-length custom playlist be HAWT After the scintillating one-two of Go Sato's LIGHTNING STRIKES AGAIN/PASSING PLEASURES, I never really appreciated just what a mood killer lame old st2/Lightning Resistance is. Look I'm a day 1 Dracula aficionado, you go balls-deep with that shit or you stay home for a pot noodle and a wank, boyo.

This is more the motherfuck like it Now Sato's truly Konamic st3/Dawn of Sorrow is the triumphal sendoff to the game's planetside missions it always was.

Only complaint is, this makes the (very decent) IV Maniax look a bit lame. I'd love to see them retrofit a playlist feature to that, too.

[Udderdude]

Sexy music. And no more 480i/480p.

[BIL]

I could swear this was intentional. I'm keepin' it, anyway!

Blimey, it even preserves your custom playlist in Attract mode. Badass.



Nothing says what time it is quite like a Gradius III reference.

Sexy music. And no more 480i/480p.

Haha, I'd totally forgotten about the PS2+PC's interlacing issues... I thought this was looking rather nicer than I recalled!

I'm surprised at how tolerable I've found III's ship speed, this time around. Really disliked it BITD. Going between it and I+IV, whose default speeds never bothered me at all, I think III's total lack of horizontal pan (IV's is variable, I is always-on) creates an illusion of the ship moving slower than it really is, relative to the others.

Gentlemen, Start Your Raidens

Spoiler

Slowest of the lot is Raiden IV's mkII, a tradeoff for its br00tal DPS. IV's Fighting Thunder is the inverse. III is in the middle, and feels uncannily close to I; like Moss were really striving for a 1:1 transfer to locked pan + polys. Note how Raiden I's ship reaches the endpoint of its GIF's first frame, marked by the shadow's lower-left edge, at the same time III hits the edge of its playfield before doubling back.

Spoiler

It helps that locked pan is an approach I decidedly prefer nowadays, especially in Toaplanesques and other snipier games. III's relatively tiny hitbox helps a lot, too, compared to other snipefests like Trigon and HachaMecha Fighter, where you can see a bullet coming, start to move aside, and get killed by a graze, making pre-emptive movement vital to avoid being caught flat-footed. And like every other Raiden, III's not a twitchfest; far more about well-routed microtaps and cutbacks, with improv typically reserved for error correction, often accompanied by a judicious BOMBA.

Old buddy's got it where it counts

Spoiler

...all that ACA Gun Frontier I've been playing lately probably helped, too.

I just wish III+IV Maniax had a 1P/2P side switch, ala ACA Raiden; can't seem to figure out a way to play as Blue Ship (only got one controller). Is there any way to do this on PS4?

[Angry Hina]

Old buddy's got it where it counts

Spoiler

Who has done this ^^;

[BIL]

Classic Raiden Rodeo Seen a monster tank? Try teabagging it!

[DenimDemon]

Last month Edge Magazine took their time and reviewed this (8/10).
Out of nowhere when so many stgs are being released every month nowadays. I dig Edge tough so i thought it was cool to have a Raiden 3 review in 2023.

[BIL]

Their 2002-04 arcade coverage actually sparked me back up on this mode of gaming. Very fair reviews of DDP DOJ, Ikaruga, and Psyvariar 2, with plenty of clearly learned references to a range of 80s through contemporary gems like Layer Section, Soldier Blade, and Garegga; they were obviously fans of the genre, never shying away from describing its innate limitation (it won't waste your time) alongside its immortal strength (it won't waste your time). Good to hear they reviewed this!

Much, much earlier in the mag's life, it saw infamous howler reviews of Raiden DX ("It's just Raiden II innit?!") and DOOM ("You can't talk to the monsters?! This is just a shooter in first-person!"), but I suspect they were by different writers.

[Jonpachi]

I was lucky enough to work with a design director who had served as the EIC at Edge from 2004 to 2007. She recognized my email (similar to my handle here) and told me in the interview process that she thought the Galuda series was superior to Pachi. Insane. In almost 20 years in the game industry, I've met only a handful that know shmups like that, and never in a leadership position.

[BIL]

^ Ha, makes total sense. That was right around the time I was living in the UK, and finding the magazine a rare respite amongst mainstream publications. I still have all of those from back then, they're gorgeously-produced as well (can't beat that trademark matte paperstock, and so much authentically razor-sharp pixel art). IIRC at least one writer regularly posted here, thenabouts.

[davyK]

Has there been any more word on the Switch version and possible performance improvements?

It's pleasing to learn that it has been reviewed by Edge magazine (UK publication that was at least well regarded though I don't read it any more) and got a favourable score.

[DenimDemon]

There was an update maybe 2 or 3 weeks after release it does feel a bit smoother on sections that would stutter before. Or maybe it’s just my imagination.
There’s still some slowdown on some sections of Stage 4 onwards, mostly very busy segments.
One thing they really fixed was the noise of the blue laser shot, it’s very subtle now, much better.

I play it on Switch all the time.
Yeah there’s some slow down on busier sections (very very busy ones) but still an easy recommend I think.

[NeoStrayCat]

So yeah...just remembered that this came out a while ago for overseas regions. Also, for those wondering on the PC/Steam release, it seemed to got delayed. The digital (and physical) overseas console versions are at least available.

[Flashman]

I totally forgot about this one to be honest, I pre-ordered the PS5 version on Amazon and wondered what the hell it was when it hit the doormat yesterday I do have a switch and enjoy it for certain games, but I always feel if you can get a game on PlayStation it’s best to do it; historically they always tend to have less issues (on release and otherwise) than Switch.

Have to say it plays beautifully, only managed to get half an hour and a couple of levels in so far, but I have a whole day away from the wife on Monday so hoping for a session.

It’ll be nice to be able to abandon the PAL PS2 version on a “12 CRT and I’m mulling over selling it, as it goes for about £250 in good condition (and this may be affected soon, by the modern console release) but like my Jag collection after I got the game drive, I’ve a feeling I’ll regret it.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Oh I forgot this was coming this month and is indeed out now!