2D polygons WTF?!

[icycalm]

Copy-pasting this from another thread:

also as far as 2D goes. there's a very simple solution. 2 dimensional polygon models (the darwinians in darwinia e.g.) and put what ever you want on it as a texture map, instead of sprites use a couple polygons in the shape of whatever and constrain everything to a single plane, thus you don't have to constrain the consoles 3d abilities but you can still put a couple million things on screen, after all if you build a console that sucks at 3d you only limit the types of games you can make for it.

This is the most profound thing I've read on the internet in weeks.

You say it has been used in Darwinia? Does it look good? Are there any other games that use this technique? Wow?

[Benjamin]

Soldat is the same, using flat polygons to contruct maps and skeletal models for the other objects for what is a 2-D looking and playing game. I don't believe it's that rare -- it basically appears to be textured vector graphics.

[magnum opus]

darwinia is a 3d game mind you so its hard to say exactly how well it would look but http://www.darwinia.co.uk/screenshots/image18.jpg yeah the darwinians (the green guys) certainly look like sprites to me... well artistically

[iatneH]

My interpretation is like those darwinian thingies, but restricting their orientation so that the normal vector of the polygon surface is always facing the player (in an orthogonal viewing space), and then also animating them while sticking to this restriction.

I'm just guessing the benefit of this is that you can make texture-mapped "sprites" out of a handful of polygons instead of needing thousands or more for a complete model on three axes.

You'll still need to reserve some video memory for the texture maps, but you don't need to load different textures for different animations as you would for traditional sprites; just load the textures once and move the polygons around as you please.

edit: what I mean is, for example an animation that takes place over 16 frames, e.g. a character getting knocked over in a fighting game
With traditional sprites, you need to load 16 separate bitmaps into memory for the animation (unless you're an uber-leet Amiga programmer and reuse every single pixel that you can).
With this 3D method, you just load the textures for the various body parts, and run an animation script which moves the polygons according to the animation.

[Pixel_Outlaw]

I can't think of any examples directly, but they have been doing this since fairly early in the vidoe game days. I think the rotation title box on Super Gunstar Heroes might be an example...

[Damocles]

darwinia is a 3d game mind you so its hard to say exactly how well it would look but http://www.darwinia.co.uk/screenshots/image18.jpg yeah the darwinians (the green guys) certainly look like sprites to me... well artistically

Most beautiful thing ever.

[magnum opus]

exactly

also yes darwinia is one of the best looking games i've ever played
one of the best playing too

[Thunder Force]

Some software development tools have this feature built into the toolset, to achieve OpenGL/Direct3D hardware acceleration in retro sprite-based action games. It also allow you to do things like transparencies and RGB lighting of your sprites.

[Dave_K.]

The Rumblefish is probably the best modern example of 2d polygons that deform with animation.

[iatneH]

The Rumblefish is probably the best modern example of 2d polygons that deform with animation.

My only experience with The Rumble Fish is a few passing glances at it at the arcade, but aren't the characters full 3D models defined in x-, y-, and z-axes (and then shaded funny to appear 2D), and not paper-thin models defined only in x and y?

[raiden]

I can't think of any examples directly, but they have been doing this since fairly early in the vidoe game days.

absolutely. Every hardware with a dedicated co-processor for effects like realtime scaling and rotation was working on the same premise.

[Ganelon]

Yeah, this was/is supposed to be the dream of all 2D fans. Of course, the technology nowadays isn't quite good enough to make it look convincing, but we can all hope developers would go along this route. That way, they can just draw skins and reuse models.

Of course, not everything will look perfectly convincing in this fashion. Think of all the dramatic anime character poses; many are actually out of proportion and can't be rendered by a 3D model without compensating for the deformities of each viewpoint, which would probably take even longer than drawing it out.

[neorichieb1971]

I thought this technique was used on the PS1 version of Street fighter alpha 3 to save memory space.

[stuffmonger]

Soldat is the same, using flat polygons to contruct maps and skeletal models for the other objects for what is a 2-D looking and playing game. I don't believe it's that rare -- it basically appears to be textured vector graphics.

HOLY CRAP! I remember playing this game all the time in high school it's quite fun.

[Middlemoor]

Keep your eyes on: http://www.soldat.pl/crimson/

[D]

I don't think that a sprite is bigger than a texture. Why would it be? A texture is just a sprite sticked onto a polygon. And then there's hit detection. If all sprites are squires then indeed it would probably be smaller to use polygons. And in regard to the hi res thread, Cave's hardware for instance supposedly cannot do any decent 3D?
*confused*

[Stormwatch]

Another World (or Out of this World) was the pioneer in using polygons for 2D.

[Blade]

I still have yet to see Rumble Fish in action graphically.

[Stefan_L]

Another World (or Out of this World) was the pioneer in using polygons for 2D.

Another pioneer would be Kings Quest and possibly other early Sierra on-line games, from what i heard the characters are polygon based? I could be wrong though

[FRO]

Another World (or Out of this World) was the pioneer in using polygons for 2D.

Another pioneer would be Kings Quest and possibly other early Sierra on-line games, from what i heard the characters are polygon based? I could be wrong though

I've never heard that...it would be very interesting, though. King's Quest is one of my all-time favorite non-shmup games.

[Fost]

Another World is now available as an enhanced shareware edition for 7 Euros. Link and big pic here:

http://www.moonpod.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=1912


It reminded me how punishingly hard it was though, and I've not gotten very far in it. However, it got me thinking about flashback, and I discovered there's an open source engine for it called 'reminiscence'. Managed to dig up my old CD-ROM and amazingly it worked:




Flashback was the greatest of the Delphine software games I think.

[stuffmonger]

Another World (or Out of this World) was the pioneer in using polygons for 2D.

I played that game on my amiga 500

[neorichieb1971]

I've got the 3DO version. Might actually play it this weekend.

[Shatterhand]

It's the 2nd time here in this forum I see someone complaining Another World is too hard.

I mean.. what the heck, we play SHMUPS man! How can we complain about a game being hard?

Honestly, back in time, the only heavy critic the game got was exactly because it was TOO EASY and TOO SHORT.

Flashback is also awesome.

I think Flashback is the better game, but Another World gives you an experience that no other game ever managed to do.

If you had to go to an island and only take one of them to play forever, Flashback would be the game. But if you had to choose only one game to play, and never get to meet the other, you should play Another World.

I actually think EVERYONE IN THE WORLD should play Another World. It's an awesome, fantastic experience, and one of the highest points in the history of the gaming industry.

And yeah, my first contact with the game was on the A500 too. It was a new game for the system, and it was the first time I ever saw an Amiga running, coming from the MSX system... first Prince of Persia, and then this made me want an Amiga so badly...

[D]

Prince of Persia, FlashBack, Another World. Great animation for that time.
Nowadays I wouln't wanne be cought dead with those games. and they are not topic related.
Another World does not use texture mapping/textures. Just flat shaded polygons.
Y'all should just make a Another World appreciation thread. I wanna know more about the original intend of this thread.
*disguised bump*

[Fenrir]

It's not just a matter of Another World, Flashback and so on. It's Delphine Software that was specialized in that kind of technology. Cruise for a Corpse was a stunning graphic adventure with vectorial/flatpolygonal characters and stuff. From Delphine as well, of course. In their days of glory they were the best French software house - they won a big fight against Silmarils back in the days (*sniff*).
I guess this kind of technology exploded with the introduction of Rotoscoping since the early days of No Exit for Amiga... and so on.

[Shatterhand]

Yep, Delphine made some awesome games. The most stunning one, undoubtly, was this:

http://hol.abime.net/1901

[Shatterhand]

Yep, Delphine made some awesome games. The most stunning one, undoubtly, was this:

http://hol.abime.net/1901

[stuffmonger]

And yeah, my first contact with the game was on the A500 too. It was a new game for the system, and it was the first time I ever saw an Amiga running, coming from the MSX system... first Prince of Persia, and then this made me want an Amiga so badly...

I still have mine

I can't get past the big monster beast thingy at the very beginning ... god, I suck :p

[Shatterhand]

I bought an A600 6 months later I saw the A500 for the first time I owned it and used it everyday for like 6 years, up until 98, when the thing stopped working.



And come on, the big beast is easy to get past. You have to kill all the small larvas in the screens before it. Then as soon as the cut-scene appears, just hold the button and LEFT. Just do that, and wait (Your character will run). When you get close to the cliff to the left, press UP so he will jump and grab the rope. When you are holding the rope, hold BUTTON and RIGHT you will run to the right.

Just do that, and you will get past it. That's all you have to do