Xbox 360 VGA

[strayan]

Those other resolutions are available if the 360 thinks it’s connected to a DVI sink.

This sounds interesting. How do you accomplish that?

DVI EDID minder should work.

Will display DVI like in this picture: https://imgur.com/a/HhPGuYd

[BazookaBen]

If you connect it to a PC monitor with a HDMI>DVI adapter/cable, it will expose the PC resolutions.

[digitron]

Xbox 360 > Component > RT5X downscaled to 240p > Analog 4:3 CRT (tate) - Result = missing too much picture but nice progressive signal.

For Cave shooters, the best result I have so far is just connecting the Xbox 360 directly to component on a analog 4:3 CRT (tate) in 480i with Smoothing enabled. I'm so used to disabling Smoothing in Cave ports but in 480i on an analog CRT it looks much better left on.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Haven't tried this, but theoretically the best result for Cave shooters with remade graphics is VGA > 31khz CRT rotated. For the ones with the original PCB graphics (smoothing disabled), 15khz RGB cable > 15khz deinterlacer > 15khz monitor/TV rotated (except for Deathsmiles, for obvious reasons). Notice some TVs have a deinterlacing setting, otherwise an Extron RGB interface should do.

[Dochartaigh]

Xbox 360 > Component > RT5X downscaled to 240p > Analog 4:3 CRT (tate) - Result = missing too much picture but nice progressive signal.

Just curious, but the RetroTink doesn't allow you to adjust the image so nothing is cut-off? That would kinda surprise me if it didn't have a simple setting like that. I use an Xbox 360 downscaled to 240p with a Corio2 all the time (specifically for those cave games and def have to tweak it to get it to show properly.

[digitron]

Xbox 360 > Component > RT5X downscaled to 240p > Analog 4:3 CRT (tate) - Result = missing too much picture but nice progressive signal.

Just curious, but the RetroTink doesn't allow you to adjust the image so nothing is cut-off? That would kinda surprise me if it didn't have a simple setting like that. I use an Xbox 360 downscaled to 240p with a Corio2 all the time (specifically for those cave games and def have to tweak it to get it to show properly.

Hey Doc, I believe it has to do with the Cave ports being written for 480p/i. When downscaled from the xbox 360, the image doesn't look like a normal Cave pcb would on a 240p crt. I'm no expert on this btw, just tinkering with the settings trying to get the best picture quality on an analog crt set. The RT5X has an option to invert the scanlines but it's not working for me when output is set to 240p..

[digitron]

Haven't tried this, but theoretically the best result for Cave shooters with remade graphics is VGA > 31khz CRT rotated. For the ones with the original PCB graphics (smoothing disabled), 15khz RGB cable > 15khz deinterlacer > 15khz monitor/TV rotated (except for Deathsmiles, for obvious reasons). Notice some TVs have a deinterlacing setting, otherwise an Extron RGB interface should do.

Yep, my VGA crt is only 17" so the screen is a little small but you're right it, it looks amazing...

[Dochartaigh]

Hey Doc, I believe it has to do with the Cave ports being written for 480p/i. When downscaled from the xbox 360, the image doesn't look like a normal Cave pcb would on a 240p crt. I'm no expert on this btw, just tinkering with the settings trying to get the best picture quality on an analog crt set. The RT5X has an option to invert the scanlines but it's not working for me when output is set to 240p..

I can't compare to real PCB's, but the games that MAME/GroovyMAME/CRTemudriver will run (which isn't them all, which is why I use Xbox 360 for some Cave) look the same as the ones I downscale from my Xbox 360 with that Corio2. Was just curious if the RetroTink did something to them as I've been super happy with my result.

[digitron]

I can't compare to real PCB's, but the games that MAME/GroovyMAME/CRTemudriver will run (which isn't them all, which is why I use Xbox 360 for some Cave) look the same as the ones I downscale from my Xbox 360 with that Corio2. Was just curious if the RetroTink did something to them as I've been super happy with my result.

I've been told the RT5X can downscale to 240p at only 1/4 frame of lag using Frame Lock. I think the quality should be the same in regards to 240p with your Corio2, just a matter of performance at that point. I believe the RT5X is the fastest at the moment (that I'm aware of).

[Dochartaigh]

I've been told the RT5X can downscale to 240p at only 1/4 frame of lag using Frame Lock. I think the quality should be the same in regards to 240p with your Corio2, just a matter of performance at that point. I believe the RT5X is the fastest at the moment (that I'm aware of).

Don't want to get too far off-topic, but I think you might have missed what I was asking about - I was initially just asking if the RetroTink could "allow you to adjust the image so nothing is cut-off". I.e. if you could center the image up/down/left/right, and shrink/enlarge H/V size.

I asked this because you said the RetroTink is "missing too much picture", and saying that too much of the picture is missing would usually mean that the image is cut off on one or more sides, which means there's no adjustments to fix that part of the image from being cut off (which I couldn't believe, so I asked about it

[digitron]

I've been told the RT5X can downscale to 240p at only 1/4 frame of lag using Frame Lock. I think the quality should be the same in regards to 240p with your Corio2, just a matter of performance at that point. I believe the RT5X is the fastest at the moment (that I'm aware of).

Don't want to get too far off-topic, but I think you might have missed what I was asking about - I was initially just asking if the RetroTink could "allow you to adjust the image so nothing is cut-off". I.e. if you could center the image up/down/left/right, and shrink/enlarge H/V size.

I asked this because you said the RetroTink is "missing too much picture", and saying that too much of the picture is missing would usually mean that the image is cut off on one or more sides, which means there's no adjustments to fix that part of the image from being cut off (which I couldn't believe, so I asked about it

Ah yes, cropping? Yes, you can crop and move the picture on the RT5X. I meant to say that due to 240p and the large scanlines from a 480p source being downscaled, the picture is lacking. You can also move the picture in the Screen settings on the Cave port (as you probably know) so either way that's not an issue.

[digitron]

Spent some time tinkering with different displays, eg. Sony CRT, Sharp CRT, Sony VGA Monitor. In regards to playing Cave Shmups on the Xbox 360, my best setup so far is simply using a VGA CRT Monitor with the official VGA cable, looks fantastic and plays great. Futari set to 0 FrameDelay, 640x480, 31khz, just feels like its the way these ports were meant to be played.

[digitron]

Curious if any of you are running your xbox 360 on an EDTV LCD? Seems like these were models which would support 480p natively w/ 4:3. Think these would be fairly cheap panels, not sure if there's a better model to hunt down. These things are all over the place on the used marketplace.

[Dochartaigh]

Curious if any of you are running your xbox 360 on an EDTV LCD? Seems like these were models which would support 480p natively w/ 4:3. Think these would be fairly cheap panels, not sure if there's a better model to hunt down. These things are all over the place on the used marketplace.

Not really such a thing. I mean, there are, but they're pretty HORRID and nothing most people would want to own. Like around that time period plasma totally stomped LCD's, and those early plasma with true 480p (some of them ARE even 4:3, like not 4:3 with pillarboxes because it's a 16:9 set, but actual 4:3) and their black level is pretty atrocious to modern standards (hell, even to a few years later). I'm not even sure if those LCD's I also commonly see are even 480p (or TBH they very well could be but I just write them off and never research the ones I see on FBMarketplace because I immediately write them off, because LCD, lol), many, many are 720p.

I DO have a bunch of 'native' 480p plasmas, widescreens, but exactly 480 individual phosphor banks/cells (or whatever they're called) tall, and the problem for me with my Panasonic PWD5, 6, and PWD8 models is the scaling. When you set it to default it is NOT 1:1, still gives you the vertical repeating pillars of dirty scaling when you run the checkerboard test or whatnot (or on my tester it's "H" written over and over).

Besides that though, I do kinda love them for native 480p (mostly for my OG Xbox, but I do play the Cave shooters on the 360 a lot too!) even with their flaws. My CRT's do beat them many times over, but the 42" size of these is a TON bigger than even my largest widescreen 32" multiformat pro CRT – and the colors are very nice as well (and in a dark room I'm OK with the black level even, but a lot do complain about it).

[digitron]

Curious if any of you are running your xbox 360 on an EDTV LCD? Seems like these were models which would support 480p natively w/ 4:3. Think these would be fairly cheap panels, not sure if there's a better model to hunt down. These things are all over the place on the used marketplace.

Not really such a thing. I mean, there are, but they're pretty HORRID and nothing most people would want to own. Like around that time period plasma totally stomped LCD's, and those early plasma with true 480p (some of them ARE even 4:3, like not 4:3 with pillarboxes because it's a 16:9 set, but actual 4:3) and their black level is pretty atrocious to modern standards (hell, even to a few years later). I'm not even sure if those LCD's I also commonly see are even 480p (or TBH they very well could be but I just write them off and never research the ones I see on FBMarketplace because I immediately write them off, because LCD, lol), many, many are 720p.

I DO have a bunch of 'native' 480p plasmas, widescreens, but exactly 480 individual phosphor banks/cells (or whatever they're called) tall, and the problem for me with my Panasonic PWD5, 6, and PWD8 models is the scaling. When you set it to default it is NOT 1:1, still gives you the vertical repeating pillars of dirty scaling when you run the checkerboard test or whatnot (or on my tester it's "H" written over and over).

Besides that though, I do kinda love them for native 480p (mostly for my OG Xbox, but I do play the Cave shooters on the 360 a lot too!) even with their flaws. My CRT's do beat them many times over, but the 42" size of these is a TON bigger than even my largest widescreen 32" multiformat pro CRT – and the colors are very nice as well (and in a dark room I'm OK with the black level even, but a lot do complain about it).

That makes sense, thank you. Which brings me to my next configuration.. Xbox 360 set to 480p > component > RT5x > output 1440p & LCD Scanlines, looks good and feels pretty snappy. I heard that the scaler on the xbox 360 is not that great which is why everyone turns these ports down to 480p....but then it's 480p on a LCD panel (ugly). My question is if the 1/4 frame of input lag generated by the RT5X with Framelock turned on is more or less input lag then simply setting the Xbox 360 to 720p?

[albertredneck]

Hey guys, sorry for resurrecting this thread but I have a problem with my Xbox 360.

My goal is to output 640x480 to my VGA monitor, but I cannot make it work. I'm using a HDMI to VGA adapter.

There are 2 scenarios, the first one is disabling the Display Detect. The console shows me the following resolutions:

https://i.ibb.co/RHbBm7y/Whats-App-Imag ... 6-AM-1.jpg

If I enable Display Detect, the console shows me the following resolutions:

https://i.ibb.co/px4HCT0/Whats-App-Imag ... -06-AM.jpg

First thing to notice is that I cannot see any option for 640x480, neither enabling DD or disabling it. One could guess that 480p is the equivalent resolution, but all the XXXp resolutions I use tend to force Widescreen option. Maybe that's not the case for 480P? Second thing to notice is that the "PC resolutions" include a weird 848x480 resolution, which is not 4:3.

Now the tests: I've tested both resolutions, 480p (both with DD enabled and disabled) and 848x480 and the results were the same, my monitor turning black and flickering on-and-off, showing the 360 output for some seconds and then going back to black. The monitor was flickering hard, to the point that I was not able to show the monitor OSD. I even was a bit afraid that the resolution sent to the monitor could damage it.

Obviously, my monitor supports 640x480, as I tested it with my PC.

Anyone experiencing this? Is the HDMI to VGA adapter the problem and I should buy a AV to VGA adapter? Is there any other system display setting that could make my monitor not get the input signal from the console correctly?

Any help would be appreciated!

[SuperSpongo]

Is the HDMI to VGA adapter the problem

Most likely, yes.

and I should buy a AV to VGA adapter?

No, you should buy an Xbox360 VGA cable. I was wondering whether you had a console without the Multi AV port, but then you mentioned an AV to VGA adapter. So you have the big analog out port on your console, right?

[albertredneck]

No, you should buy an Xbox360 VGA cable. I was wondering whether you had a console without the Multi AV port, but then you mentioned an AV to VGA adapter. So you have the big analog out port on your console, right?

Yes! I have a Slim model with big chunky trapezoid connector on the back. That's what I meant by a AV to VGA cable, the 360 one.

I was just wondering if I would waste my money buying that cable... so thanks a lot!

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Microsoft did release an official 1st-party "Microsoft Xbox 360 Advance Scart Cable" (which has a small Microsoft/360 hologram sticker on it) that I use to hook up an Xbox 360 Slim console to an Arthrimus produced Jammaizer "Scart to Jamma" pcb and hooked up to a candy cab in low-res 15.7kHz format (basically in 320 x 240 resolution -- 240p). The Cave 360 port of DDP-SDOJ looks awesome when running with the above mentioned setup indeed. Unfortunately, Microsoft doesn't it sell it's 1st-party Scart cable anymore and hasn't for a long time anyways.

The interesting thing about this official 360 Scart cable is, it has a digital Toslink output port as well located at the base of the trapezoidal A/V connection interface (perfect for hooking up to an A/V receiver or a soundbar setup with a Toslink cable).

The Monster Game branded 360 VGA cable is quite massive/chunky compared to the 1st-party official 360 VGA cable with it's smaller physical form factor, indeed. Of course, Monster Game sold an optional Toslink adapter to hook up to it's own 360 branded VGA cable setup as well (via an 1/8" stereo jack interface) -- which meant spending more money to have that particular option.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Fudoh]

@PC Engine Fan X!
the 360 Scart cable is not able to output 240p, just 480i. So unless your Scart to Jamma adapter does some kind of magic trickery, you don't get 240p this way.

@albertredneck
using a native VGA cable will indeed output VESA resolutions like 640x480. Using HDMI (or component cables for that matter) only allows you output 480p (as 720x480p resolution). You should still be able to select 4:3 or 16:9. It's possible though that that MS disabled this at some point, since only a handful titles actually supported 4:3 output without leaving you with big black bars on screen.

[SuperSpongo]

@albertredneck

Ah I see! I somehow thought that you wanted to use a Composite to VGA adapter. Okay, so yeah, I think the VGA cable is the best bet. They are dirt cheap, too. Always surprised me, even the official ones can be had for around 10 bucks.

[BazookaBen]

I think it was definitely more than "handful" of games that supported 4:3. I don't have a hard number but I would guess in the early years of the 360 more games supported 4:3 than not.

And 640x480 usually is not the resolution you'd want to use, it's too low. Many games rendered at 1024x768 natively, you get super crispy pixels in that mode.

Other games rendered at somewhere between those two resolutions internally, and there is no output option for anything in between, so at that point I think the thing to do is to use the highest pixel pitch at 1280x1024, which even though it's a 5:4 resolution, I'm pretty sure it adds black bars for a proper 4:3 960p in the middle(I need to hook up to an old LCD monitor to test this). And on a VGA CRT, you just overscan the black bars for a fullscreen 4:3 picture

Interesting things about the Monster VGA cable for Xbox 360: The digital is a 2.5mm connector, and the Toslink adapter just grabs SPDIF from that and does a analog>digital optical conversion. So you can actually skip that whole conversion just make simple 2.5mm>RCA cable for RCA SPDIF, if that's more convenient for your setup. Useful if you find a second-hand VGA/Component cable that is missing the toslink adapter

[albertredneck]

Other games rendered at somewhere between those two resolutions internally, and there is no output option for anything in between, so at that point I think the thing to do is to use the highest pixel pitch at 1280x1024, which even though it's a 5:4 resolution, I'm pretty sure it adds black bars for a proper 4:3 960p in the middle(I need to hook up to an old LCD monitor to test this). And on a VGA CRT, you just overscan the black bars for a fullscreen 4:3 picture

Yeah, unfortunately it seems like it's something to test by game.

As a basis for 4:3 game support by resolution I'm using this list: https://www.benoitren.be/43ar-x360.html

For the rendering resolution (or even resolutions, maybe some games can render internally at multiple resolutions depending on the system res?) I think there's no other way than test it one by one. Even Xenia seems to not be reliable, as it does seem to ignore my resolution setting.

[albertredneck]

@albertredneck

Ah I see! I somehow thought that you wanted to use a Composite to VGA adapter. Okay, so yeah, I think the VGA cable is the best bet. They are dirt cheap, too. Always surprised me, even the official ones can be had for around 10 bucks.

They're not widely available in Europe it seems. For now I've ordered one from Aliexpress (around same price, so I hope they're legit cables).

[SuperSpongo]

Readily available on German ebay... but if you found one on Aliexpress that's fine too I'm sure.

[Guspaz]

The quality of the cable for high analog resolutions matters a lot. I bought a cheap VGA cable for the 360 back in the day before they had HDMI ports and it produced terrible image quality compared to component. Super smeary. This isn't the same as 240p video where you can get away with murder due to the very low bandwidth involved. I would not expect good results with a super cheap ali express special.

[emphatic]

The Official Microsoft VGA cable is miles better PQ wise than 3rd party cables.

[BazookaBen]

For now I've ordered one from Aliexpress

Oh god cancel that shit if it's not too late.

You can get a Monster VGA cable for practically nothing: https://www.ebay.com/p/1400020341?iid=204605196768

[PC Engine Fan X!]

For now I've ordered one from Aliexpress

Oh god cancel that shit if it's not too late.

You can get a Monster VGA cable for practically nothing: https://www.ebay.com/p/1400020341?iid=204605196768

That eBay listing is for the brand new Monster 360 Component Cable setup indeed.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[BazookaBen]

That eBay listing is for the brand new Monster 360 Component Cable setup indeed.

Oh, whoops!

Well here's a used one for $10: https://www.ebay.com/itm/285871329422

Surprised to not see new old stock available anymore for the Monster cable.

But still plenty of new old stock on the official cables: https://www.ebay.com/itm/224532263355