Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

[Master O]

Off the top of my head, Thunder Cross's World version deletes the game's distinctive Option spacing mechanic. Now they just hover in place. It also trades the diverse special weapons (flamethrower, laser, grenades) for a generic limited-use bomb, which is called "LIL BABY" in what I hope was a bizarrely nuke-a-riffic nod to the ship's name, "Blue Thunder 45." Thunder Cross USA: Fat Man and Lil Baby.

It also swaps the order of stages 1 (outskirts) and 2 (city).

World, Japan (Old) and Japan (New) are included in the Arcade Archives release. AFAIK Japan New made the loops tougher after players cleaned Old's clock with ease.

EDIT: all this IIRC was bugging me, so I fired up ACA Thunder Cross. It has four versions: Japan (Old), Japan (New), USA, and Europe. It's USA that makes the changes described above. Europe retains the Japanese system and first stage, but I'm not sure if anything else was altered.

Interesting, because in the current version of Fightcade, there is only one Japan edition of Thunder Cross 1.

[BIL]

Yeah, Hamster sometimes dig up some pretty niche stuff. ACA Gradius III has Old and New Japan versions too, plus Asia. ACA Zero Team was the first home release (official or unofficial) of the game's Old and New variants. There was also the odd dev board version of Omega Fighter included with the original and Special versions - IIRC, it's basically Special with debug commands enabled, but it's still neat they included it.

[Sengoku Strider]

I am once again asking...what is this kind of music called?
https://youtu.be/ALL-FeMlf0w

Not so much the instrumentation. I feel like the melody is derivative of a type of genre. I get that vibe from a few tracks in this game. I love the soundtrack for this one.

Questions about this period and general style of music can be tough to pin down with a very precise answer. The reason for this is that it's when raves, acid house & techno were all happening at clubs & warehouses in the UK & elsewhere. There was generally a 'chill out' room at the side for people who'd taken a little too much of something to lounge in, listening to ambient tracks. This quite naturally led to a dance/ambient fusion, which then surfaced in mainstream music under the general rubric of electronic pop.

Electronic, a band which was a collaboration between Bernard Sumner of New Order and Johnny Marr of The Smiths (with the Pet Shop Boys showing up on some songs) had an album track that somewhat mirrors the style in the Super R-Type link above, as an example of this:

https://youtu.be/tynrmbUN3nU

While you mention you're not looking toward the instrumentation, I think it is important here. Because in terms of style, it's not so much a structural label as it is one linked to particular sounds. Somebody would come up with a bass, sequence style or lead using a certain synth in a song, which took off. Then everyone went out & bought that synth & did the same thing with it (or just used it in a studio that had it), so certain elements characterized by the architecture & limitations of that instrument were what transitioned.

Like, the Korg M1 was the first synth that had a chord memory which let anyone trigger piano chords by pressing a single key, even if they had no idea how to play. If I then pointed you in the direction of two of its built-in piano and organ sounds (and one synth lead), you'd suddenly understand how certain very specific musical elements showed up in 82 billion songs across various dance, electronic or pop subgenres from 89-91. Not to mention the Streets of Rage soundtracks:

https://youtu.be/iHKB1abCI_U

https://youtu.be/PfvGMLkxR1o


In the Super R-Type track you linked, I'm pretty sure it's trying to imitate a Yamaha DX7 pluck bass with a Roland D-50 type pad and a Roland TR-909 percussion style. Those three instruments were absolutely everywhere at the time, which is why it sounds so familiar. The 909 was the drum machine that goes UNCE UNCE UNCE (and sometimes TAKKA TAKKA TAK) in every 90s dance track and its sequencer timing & swing characterizes all of this stuff. The DX7's bass was what Detroit Techno was built off.

The Super R-Type soundtrack goes all over the map though, from stuff that I'd characterize as funk jazz fusion, mid 80s hip hop and electro riffs to whatever you'd call what the Art of Noise was doing.

[BIL]

^^^ killer post

[Sturmvogel Prime]

Do you know how I can full power up the Bomb and Laser in Sagaia Version 1 in Darius Cozmic Collection Arcade?
I've tried to finish it on Easy and simply there's not enough power ups to fill the bars. ¿Are those two trophies "Impossible on purpose"?

[Lord British]

Thanks for the push to get the Pro, I'm gonna do it. For $200 I figure it will hold its resale value for quite a while.

I'll ask again though, will my Japanese PS3 PSN account be the same one I use on PS4? I assume it is but I dont know. Making a new one seems daunting.

[Rastan78]

I'll ask again though, will my Japanese PS3 PSN account be the same one I use on PS4? I assume it is but I dont know. Making a new one seems daunting.

I don't know for sure, but I had an NA account and it was good across generations. From PS3 to PS4 and even on PSP. So I would think a Japan account should work the same way.

[Rastan78]

Great post Sengoku Strider. It's more than I can wrap my mind around lol.

That R Type track is great. It's funny that this came up bc I've been favoring this kind of 80s synth type track in shmups lately. Been going so far as to listen to these kind of tracks on the headphones over the past few months which is something I haven't done in a really long time with game music.

A couple of stand out tracks to me came from Image Fight which I think is a really underrated OST. I actually like the sort of harsh and metallic sound of the whole cacophony of the the music combined with the sounds effects in this game. Some might find it too grating though.

Image Fight - "Final Mission" https://youtu.be/2g8-UPCT_aI

Image Fight - "Skill" https://youtu.be/QlgTnG8n780

And from Darius II, this track is about as 80s as it gets IMO. This is getting more into like Kraftwerk territory or something along those lines.

Darius II - "Planet Blue" https://youtu.be/jEjWf5cTtTY

What do you guys think of these tracks?

[BIL]

Image Fight's OST is brilliant, in the literal sense - shiny, metallic, HEAVY! Got a massive pair of chromium-plated balls. After his debut Mr. Heli, composer Masahiko Ishida also did X-Multiply, R-Type II and Saigo no Nindou's OSTs, which tended progressively darker. Image Fight has more of a bravado to it, pretty fitting with the top-gunning "ace flight school, then blast off and stomp those aliens" premise. Even the grimmer/weirder tracks have a cocky aspect to them. Factory BGM clangs exuberantly, and the Alt boss theme exudes a goading "blow up this big metal motherfucker" intensity.

"Final Mission" reminds me massively of New Order's iconic Blue Monday, which was directly covered by Super Aleste's bonus stage along with The Perfect Kiss. Incidentally, Musha used the classic "Ahhh" / "Freshhh" samples as its boss death screams... and there's Garegga nicking off Detroit Techno. The intersection between classic VGM and its contemporary electronic music is a good way to find lots of great music.

[Rastan78]

Yeah Image Fight's music has an edge, but there are still those triumphant good guy on a mission melodies riding on top. At times they remind me of Raiden II/DX which I also happen to love.

I should say as to Raiden DX it's gotta be the original PCB tunes. And it's more about how the music serves the game and gels together with it than how it stands on its own.

[Sengoku Strider]

That metallic sound is characteristic of FM synthesis. FM is what the Mega Drive/Genesis used to generate sound. More importantly, it's what Japanese PCs of the 1980s like the Sharp X series or NEC PC 88/98 used. Because they were the most powerful tools available to Japanese programmers at the time, the X68000 and the like became the devkits for arcade development almost by default. As a consequence, you'll hear pretty much every Japanese arcade game from the second half of the 1980s using FM synthesis because of this, from Outrun to Final Fight to yes, Image Fight (and anything else on Irem's M72 board).

FM, or frequency modulation synthesis, only uses sine waves. Because the sine is a pure waveshape with no irregularities or angles, it's referred to as the fundamental wave. With sufficient changes to its frequency, it can theoretically create any other sound.

In FM, you change - or 'modulate' - the frequency of a sine using another sine. Say a sound wave is at a certain medium pitch, you can move that pitch using the shape of another sine (not its sound) as a guide, so the pitch goes up and down, following the curve of the sine being used as a modulator. This is basically mimicking in a simple sense what happens in a guitar string vibrating or a violin's vibrato.

In practice, it looks like this:



1. You take the top sine.

2. Apply it as a guide to the middle wave, our "carrier." This is the one people can actually hear.

3. The resulting sound is the new waveform at the bottom. See how in the bottom wave the wiggles get further apart at the same spots the first wave at the top dips low? That means it's now oscillating more slowly in those parts, producing a lower pitch, thanks to the modulation.

The most basic sound you'll get using two sines is a bell tone. That's why the Genesis did those so well. Add in a little more modulation to that bell, and you can get a metallic clang. Add in some more modulation to make it oscillate faster, and you can turn that clang into a buzz. With a bit of tweaking, you can make that buzz sound like an electric guitar. Those basic building blocks form the basis of a huge amount of Genesis music. The Genesis only had 4 sines, or 'operators' per voice, so there were limits in how far it could go. But professional synths have used 7 or 8, in software versions theoretically the only limit is processing power.

This wonderful madman built a whole physical synthesizer around a Mega Drive to control each parameter using individual knobs, if you want to see how programming it plays out in practice:

https://youtu.be/V0kq0yCTpNE

[pieslice]

It's the feedback loop in YM chips that creates the harsher FM tones. Pure FM of two or more waves is always quite consistent in harmonics but the feedback loop makes it generate more unpredictable outcome - if the feedback is high enough the fm becomes almost noise.¨
Also there can be more waves than just sine - the classic DX line is 6 sines but the YM chips have rectified sine, half sine and pseudo saw using the first quarter of a sine. Some later chips also include pure square wave.

[Sengoku Strider]

It's the feedback loop in YM chips that creates the harsher FM tones. Pure FM of two or more waves is always quite consistent in harmonics but the feedback loop makes it generate more unpredictable outcome - if the feedback is high enough the fm becomes almost noise.¨

I think it also comes down to the resolution on the waveforms. An 8-bit sample rate can sound 'artifacty,' it's essentially what bit crushers try to achieve. Stuff like the YM2612 also has a not insignificant noise floor. That being said, I think these are often factors in its favour in terms of character.

Also there can be more waves than just sine - the classic DX line is 6 sines but the YM chips have rectified sine, half sine and pseudo saw using the first quarter of a sine. Some later chips also include pure square wave.

I actually didn't know they could do that, though I'd often wondered given a lot of more traditional PCM-y sounds come out of it.

[pieslice]

I think it also comes down to the resolution on the waveforms. An 8-bit sample rate can sound 'artifacty,' it's essentially what bit crushers try to achieve. Stuff like the YM2612 also has a not insignificant noise floor. That being said, I think these are often factors in its favour in terms of character.

The feedback algorithm generates noise because fed-back frequencies eventually become so high that they hit the nyquist limit of the sampling rate of 49khz provided by the OPL chip.
There is noticeable digital aliasing in the OPL but it is caused by the waveforms that are stored in 1024-entry wavetable that has no interpolation.

OPL chips actually operate with half-precision floating point signal - not discrete PCM. They require specific yamaha DAC that can convert half floats to an analog signal.
The output quality of the sampled signal is roughly equal to 16-bit pcm.

[el_rika]

Does Mushihimesama 1.0 (maniac & ultra) have any kind of rank variations?

[Herr Schatten]

Could anyone share a good strategy for the second midboss in stage 6 of GG Aleste 3, the one with the turrets on both sides and the blue windscreen-wiper laser coming from the bigger middle part? I can no-miss the game up to that point, but somehow seem to be haemorrhaging lifes there. Even if I survive the battle, I struggle afterwards due to the power down.

I'd also be grateful for an explanation how to ideally lead the rotating diamonds attack of the stage 5 boss. While I always seem to be able to wiggle through unharmed, I'd rather know what I'm doing.

[XoPachi]

Questions about this period and general style of music can be tough to pin down with a very precise answer. The reason for this is that it's when raves, acid house & techno were all happening at clubs & warehouses in the UK & elsewhere. There was generally a 'chill out' room at the side for people who'd taken a little too much of something to lounge in, listening to ambient tracks. This quite naturally led to a dance/ambient fusion, which then surfaced in mainstream music under the general rubric of electronic pop.

Electronic, a band which was a collaboration between Bernard Sumner of New Order and Johnny Marr of The Smiths (with the Pet Shop Boys showing up on some songs) had an album track that somewhat mirrors the style in the Super R-Type link above, as an example of this:

https://youtu.be/tynrmbUN3nU

While you mention you're not looking toward the instrumentation, I think it is important here. Because in terms of style, it's not so much a structural label as it is one linked to particular sounds. Somebody would come up with a bass, sequence style or lead using a certain synth in a song, which took off. Then everyone went out & bought that synth & did the same thing with it (or just used it in a studio that had it), so certain elements characterized by the architecture & limitations of that instrument were what transitioned.

Like, the Korg M1 was the first synth that had a chord memory which let anyone trigger piano chords by pressing a single key, even if they had no idea how to play. If I then pointed you in the direction of two of its built-in piano and organ sounds (and one synth lead), you'd suddenly understand how certain very specific musical elements showed up in 82 billion songs across various dance, electronic or pop subgenres from 89-91. Not to mention the Streets of Rage soundtracks:

https://youtu.be/iHKB1abCI_U

https://youtu.be/PfvGMLkxR1o


In the Super R-Type track you linked, I'm pretty sure it's trying to imitate a Yamaha DX7 pluck bass with a Roland D-50 type pad and a Roland TR-909 percussion style. Those three instruments were absolutely everywhere at the time, which is why it sounds so familiar. The 909 was the drum machine that goes UNCE UNCE UNCE (and sometimes TAKKA TAKKA TAK) in every 90s dance track and its sequencer timing & swing characterizes all of this stuff. The DX7's bass was what Detroit Techno was built off.

The Super R-Type soundtrack goes all over the map though, from stuff that I'd characterize as funk jazz fusion, mid 80s hip hop and electro riffs to whatever you'd call what the Art of Noise was doing.

I forgot I asked this and once again, I am not disappointed. I swear, when I need a finger to point me in the direction of nuanced entertainment culture, this forum nails it 100% of the time. Especially YOU.

[el_rika]

In Mushihimesama, for maximum damage, is it enough to keep both auto-shot+shot pressed, or you jave to keep auto-shot pressed and shot tapped very fast !?

[Hazuki]

I remember there being a PC shmup (probably doujin) that was apparently inspired after Darius, but the bosses were modeled after some kind of exotic sea life. I don't remember what specifically, but think of stuff like trilobites/isopods, maybe.

Pretty sure someone created a thread about it here years ago, but I can't find it anymore. And using Search for "Darius" returns over 500 results. Quite hard to find it again like that.

[steveovig]

I just got Esp Ra De for the Switch and I'm pretty damn new to Cave games. What do I need to do to maximize my score and multiplier? Right now, I'm just holding shot and power shot at the same time, dodging bullets, and collecting power-ups. I'm assuming there is more to it than that.

[Lethe]

The multiplier comes from killing an enemy with shot while the enemy is in contact with powershot explosions, +1 multiplier per explosion. It also multiplies the number of items that appear. When the item counter in the top corner is maximum (flashing) you can chain the multiplier between enemies without having to powershot them individually; the chain timer is short, but you can sustain it by picking up lots of items. (Technically you can always chain, it's just not very useful without max items because it'll only multiply the base enemy value and not affect the items)

So powershot enemy -> immediately finish off enemy with normal shot -> grab items -> if you have maximum items try to quickly kill more things for the chain, otherwise focus on setting up for the next.

Mostly this comes down to knowing how much health enemies have. One trick to make it easier is to memorize when enemies are going to enter the screen and full powershot them when they're right at the top. The explosions will stick, but the enemy will be invulnerable until it moves down a bit, so if you time it right this is a guaranteed x16 even on weak ones.

There are other things to the game, but surviving and getting used to the basic combo should be the main concern. A no miss run will get at least 9 million from the game clear bonus alone.

Edit:

I remember there being a PC shmup (probably doujin) that was apparently inspired after Darius, but the bosses were modeled after some kind of exotic sea life. I don't remember what specifically, but think of stuff like trilobites/isopods, maybe.

Pretty sure someone created a thread about it here years ago, but I can't find it anymore. And using Search for "Darius" returns over 500 results. Quite hard to find it again like that.

Cambria Sword? It's an interesting experience, albeit really really long.

[Hazuki]

Cambria Sword? It's an interesting experience, albeit really really long.

Yes! That's what I was looking for. Thank you.

[XoPachi]

Ok what is the font in SDOJ for the menus and stuff? I'm seeing that one in every mid budget sci fi game from Japan these days and SDOJ was the first I saw it.
I kinda could use it actually.

[Lord British]

I have about 2400 yen left over on the PSN Japanese store after getting ESP Ra.De. and Sorcer Striker. Any recommendations on what I can use the rest on?

[Sengoku Strider]

I have about 2400 yen left over on the PSN Japanese store after getting ESP Ra.De. and Sorcer Striker. Any recommendations on what I can use the rest on?

Take a look through the Hamster Arcade Archives stuff and see if there's anything you're into. You should be able to pick up 2 or 3 really good titles with that much, more if they're on sale. Plenty of great stuff on there - Blazing Star & Pulstar, Gradius I-III, Salamander+Life Force, X-Multiply, P-47, etc. etc.

Another option you can't go wrong with is R-Type Dimensions EX, which is R-Type I & II with HD remakes that are actually really well done.

And finally, good old Ikaruga is on there if you don't have it yet, pretty much a must-own.

[SPM]

I have about 2400 yen left over on the PSN Japanese store after getting ESP Ra.De. and Sorcer Striker. Any recommendations on what I can use the rest on?

Anything? JP exclusive? or international titles that are cheaper there?

[trap15]

Ok what is the font in SDOJ for the menus and stuff? I'm seeing that one in every mid budget sci fi game from Japan these days and SDOJ was the first I saw it.
I kinda could use it actually.

https://en.fontworks.co.jp/fontsearch/cometstd-b/

It's a very popular font all around, I see it in a lot of places.

[Lord British]

I have about 2400 yen left over on the PSN Japanese store after getting ESP Ra.De. and Sorcer Striker. Any recommendations on what I can use the rest on?

Anything? JP exclusive? or international titles that are cheaper there?

Either or I suppose. Doesn't appear to be any JP exclusive shmups other than the M2 ones. Getting rid of extra yen was easier in the PS3 me thinks.

[MX7]

Pissing around with the defaults on Ketsui Deathtiny, I set Custom mode to be all standard except with extends set to every 10million (great for practice). Switching to Arcade mode, and suddenly I'm scoring loads higher, especially on the end of level bonus screen. Flipping back to extends every 10million, I hardly get anything.

Is this a 'thing' built in, where scoring on the every extend dip setting is more difficult? Or am I arbitrarily scoring harder on defaults? It's scrambling my brain!

[Fudoh]

What determines the order of the stages in NINJA COMMANDO on the Neo Geo?