shmups.system11.org

Wow that's....that's actually kinda mean

Best of all, and I'm gonna hunt down a scan now that the subject's come back up, was a UK magazine pilfering EGM's fake cheat - with the author 1) upgrading it to work on the SNES cart, and 2) being badass enough to defeat Sheng Long, for the "AMAZING, SATISFYING ENDING." Peak early 90s magazine douchebaggery, caught red-handed.

I have beaten the Zelda's, Castlevania 1 and 3, the Ninja Gaiden trilogy, Contra, Super C, most of the better shooters, all 6 Mega Man games (in a single weekend), Bucky O'Hare, and I want to say I finished BattleToads but my memory of that game is very hazy. I know I got up past the snake level with ease.

BUT...

I cannot finish Super Mario. :c
Of alllll the NES game I could manage to beat, for some reason the Mario trilogy gives me the absolute hardest time. 2D Mario, outside of World and the first NSMB, always gave me a problem. I barely scraped by Mario 3. But people tell me the original trilogy is easy. I just can't do it. Put me front of Sonic and and you will witness a murder. Mario? I'm SHOOK!

Yeah, you die in one hit normally in old Mario compared to Ninja Gaiden and Mega Man where you have health. But you die in one hit in Contra too. In fact outside of the rare, temporary barrier there's no sort of buffer for that. There's no mushrooms or animal suits or anything like that to give you an extra hit AND most enemies shoot at you but neither of those games on NES were particularly troubling for me. So I really don't get where I'm fucking up with Mario games. Maybe it's the endurance. They are much longer games. Maybe I'm just big shit. :[

It could be that the contra dudes stop when you stop while Mario is on roller skates.

Yeah the inertia based movement in Super Mario takes some getting used to, and at this point in time it's impossible for me to even remember a time in my life when those controls hadn't completely gotten under my skin, but I'd think it really shouldn't take that long. It's hard for me to accept that you've played all the way through SMB3 (at least if you didn't use the warp whistle) and didn't get accustomed to it? The controls are obviously different from Contra or Castlevania, but at the same time they are famously amazingly fucking good, and very intuitive.

I don't think I can think of Super Mario Bros. as a game that's not incredibly easy, at least once you figured out how to control it, and even a 1LC takes little effort. SMB3 meanwhile does have some stages that'll kill you easily, but that game also has so much leeway for mistakes that it never really feels hard. You always have a huge arsenal of helpful items that can be activated on the world map, or 30-70 extra lives in the bag.

Nope, same here. I spent probably ten hours with it before giving up and accepting that I just wasn't enjoying it.
People talk about the thrill of exploration and discovery, ignoring the fact that you'll spent half your time watching the little green stamina meter decrease. Screw that.

I never said the controls/inertia were what got me. lol
I'm just shit at most 2D Mario for some reason. I only got through 3 because I spammed items like mad. It was also my favorite of the bunch so I spent the most time on it. But it still took me a solid like...8 months whereas these other games I listed only took me at most a week each.



I'm already over this era of Zelda. Wild was everything I don't like about the modern open world formula but even less substance imo. I also don't go to Zelda for that directionless, "make your own fun", do nothing game design that does gangbusters on Twitch.
People compare it to the first NES game and I don't see it at all. Both plop you in and don't tell you where to go, sure, but that's where the similarities end. Zelda 1 still has an order you can just barely deviate from. You HAVE to do the main quest in it's entirety. The game isn't comprised solely of empty side shit or life sim Barbie playhouse dress up nonsense separated by, yes, kilometers and acres of barren wastelands. Points of interest weren't dead teases. They actually had interesting things you need to figure out. And everything you got mattered (as well as wasn't taken from you every 5 minutes).
I suppose they're the same in that dungeons aren't thematically varied. But one game came out 30 years ago. One came out 3 years ago soooo...

Then they announce this Dynasty Warriors game about it. A Breath of the Wild Dynasty Warriors game is like the video game equivalent of general anesthesia for me. Except under the effects of anesthesia, I can at least dream of a better game.

But I'm going to play Wild 2. Because I'm a dumb diehard for the series like that, sitting here hoping it'll be anything other than another gimped Far Cry Ubisoft copycat like the first one. I get the feeling that this style of 3D Zelda is permanent honestly so I'm just really waiting for the next new top down entry.

Excuse my dorky crying. I love Zelda too damn much.

Zelda already died on the DS. Spirit Tracks was one of the most aggresively unfun games I've ever played whose microphone and touchscreen controls seemed custom designed to both annoy and embarrass me when playing on long flights (remember those?)

I wouldn't say that. I haven't played Breath of the Wild, so I don't know how similar the games are, but Zelda 1 is super-open. You can go pretty much anywhere you want and do things in (almost) any order you want. This is actually one of the reasons why I find this game so damn replayable (it also helps that, unlike "modern" Zelda, the monsters actually WANT to kill you. There's a sense of danger, urgency and a much higher emphasis on methodical combat in the NES games).

Unless my memory is playing tricks on me, the entire map is traversable from the get-go (if you enter the Lost Woods) and the only dungeons you can't enter are 4 (which requires the raft) and 7 (which requires the flute). But even then, you can, for example, just enter the 3rd dungeon, grab the raft, exit and go straight to dungeon 4. There are lots and lots of different routes you can take in Zelda 1.

As long as you don't pick it up at full price.

It baffles me that people can pay $60 for a game they're not even sure they like.

I hated Spirit Tracks, the first and only time I've played a Zelda game I didn't enjoy at all (and I played the CD-i ones). Fortunately that game isn't at all representative of where the series was going.


Ugh, I hate the "ubisoft" formula, and I don't feel BOTW is in any way even remotely like it. Yeah, it has "towers", but come on.

Oh my god, Spirit Tracks was a travesty. Fuck all the DS Zelda's honestly. Phantom Hourglass would have been interesting had it not been for the AWFUL controls and returning to that tedious ocean palace. But I at least was able to stomach it enough to beat it. Not Tracks.
Link Between Worlds though? Godlike...then they made TriForce Heroes. :l



You're probably right. However the difference is that in Zelda 1 you can go anywhere you want whereas Wild you don't have to do it at all. And for Zelda 1, correct me again I haven't beaten it since 2015, but I think you'd have to REALLY sequence break and know the game inside and out to do much of what you're talking about. Not in the sense of exploits/glitches like Metroid, but just knowing the game.
If you ask me, that just makes things even more sad for Wild. Even not following the order for Zelda 1, you still have to go to these dungeons and be challenged by the new enemy types, complicated layouts, and deal with actually interesting (for the time) boss fights.
It's so EASY to just not do the main quest in Wild, skip right to that bland hole of a Hyrule Castle, B-line it to the inner sanctum, and steamroll the cutscene they call a Ganon fight. Everything is designed to be quick and easy to facilitate this freedom. You get literally everything that matters in the game in the first 2 hours so every other task feels superfluous. Like a glorified grind if you're unsure you'll be able to beat Ganon.



I get hella discounts at my job. Rest assured, I'm getting that shit for like $30-40 depending on when it drops. I can deal with that.

I would say a piece of me died inside when i played ST but i think skyward schlong had already killed it.

ahha the microphone controls! yeah i think you can just like blow lightly onto the mic and it accepts it as a voice input.

Nah, if anything it's the opposite, you need to know the game inside and out if you want to do things in a "proper" order.

There's no "sequence" to break (in fact your first playthrough is destined to be "chaotic") and you can always make progress. That's the beauty of Zelda 1 and (part of) what makes it such a fantastic action-adventure game in my opinion. It really captures the feeling of "embarking on a grand adventure into the unknown" before it became just a marketing thing for this series.

Btw, how are the dungeons in BOTW? Are they Zelda 1-style labyrinths? (by that, I mean dungeons filled with monsters and almost no "individual puzzles", where the complicated layout itself is the "puzzle" and you have to make good use of your map and compass to navigate your way inside them)


Yup.

This put the final nail in the coffin for me as well. My enthusiasm for Zelda was already in an all-time low, but Skyward convinced me that it was time for me to move on.

I can 1CC Metalstorm, but I cannot for the life of me 1CC Chip and Dale. It’s like I’m cursed.

If you can clear Metal Storm's second loop, but you can't 1CC Chip and Dale, the problem is strictly effort-based, eg the latter is putting you to sleep at the controls. Medical science offers no other explanation.

If you mean just MS's first loop, yeah, I could see that. Arcade-tight and moderately tough. CnD is a lovable easier sidescroller, as was Capcom's forte with Disney stuff, but it's pretty long for what it is IIRC. I know I couldn't be arsed to fire it up right now.

I'd love to find some way to get more challenge out of chip'n'dale - maybe not allowing picking up boxes outside of where it's 100% required?

I'm not sure how you are playing the game, but it suffers from the fact that it's way too easy to cheese the entire game, and from all I can tell, cheesing it is the intended way of playing. Basically, just make sure you're always carrying a box, and if an enemy or projectile gets near, press down to hide in it, and you'll be invulnerable until your box is gone. If it's a metal box, you're golden for the rest of the stage.

Awful.

The set up for them is kind of cool? Each one is not a stationary dungeon. They're mechanical enormous beasts running amok. All four need to sort of be tamed. You work with the main 4 side characters that are basically descendants of Link's dead friends and calm them down. Think Shadow of the Colossus engagements but better. That part's actually interesting.

Once inside is where things get dull. They're not like Zelda 1 and they're very anemic compared to all other entries. They have one centralized puzzle to them that takes about 15 minutes. You can stand on one end and see all the way down to the opposing side of the dungeon for some. There's only about 4 or 5 enemies max in them. I think the desert dungeon had none at all. No minibosses. You don't get a major upgrade. No small keys. I don't believe you even have to find a boss key of sorts. The map is cool. It's a Metroid Prime-ish 3D visual of what you're doing and what the main mechanism in the Beast is currently doing. It moves in real time with every animation currently taking place of the main structure.

The goal is to just activate these four terminals with your iPhone and unlock the boss that you then spam bomb arrows on to down them in about 2 minutes. That's the main task for all of them. They're basically just slightly longer versions of the 120 shrines that pad out the bulk of the game. Did I mention there's only four dungeons? :l

When it's over, they prime themselves and stay in position locked onto Hyrule Castle so they can fire a massive laser at Ganon (somehow????) when you fight him and nuke his health to like 1/4.

It's a good concept. Damn good. But it sucks in execution because there's nothing to these things and they aren't thematically. They have basically the same gimmick of moving their parts like some sort of Hanayama puzzle and activating 4 terminals to fight a very underwhelming boss with basically no enemies in between. Then it's just...over. And they all look exactly the same internally.
One cool thing I like is how each terminal that's activated, a different part of the music changes until you get the a full composition playing by the end.

If it was going to be a good Zelda game instead of a pretty Zelda game, they'd have used the bird's eye view with its compact spaces and a (more) rapid onslaught of meaningful player inputs.

But hey at least you got Link Between Worlds. There's -> this guy <- whose second favorite Zelda is #2, which has gotten no sequels, spiritual or otherwise. And I assume a huge reason for that is how Japanese people experienced the game - through the FDS with massive load times every five seconds.

There are side-view parts of dungeons in Oracle of Ages/Seasons, with the "jump" command mapped onto a button (the latter works, and is substantial, in bird's eye view as well). Those may not otherwise play much like The Adventure of Link, but they are fun.

Does never having played a Zelda game qualify here?

Aren't Faxanadu, Zeliard, Wanderers From Ys, and The Battle of Olympus basically Zelda 2?

You are mostly better off imo.

Ys III isn't, imo. The sword action and collision are tatty, antithetical to Zelda II's punishing stabs. Adol wields his blade like a grandma batting her curtain-scratching cat with a newspaper - to much the same result! Olympus seems to outright copy Zelda II's engine, ie it handles great, but its enemy design isn't as good - no knightly duels with tenacious, player-sized foes. Faxanadu is my second-favourite sidescrolling Famicom ARPG after Zelda II, but again I wouldn't associate them beyond that - very heavy, deliberately weighty action. Not a knock - the skewer ram mechanic is killer.

Very little replicates that particular balance of agility, weight and finesse. TLDR: I HATE U NINTENDO :O

Wa wa wa i need 2 exploit teh shadow 2 win ;[ ;[ ;[ Learn 2 Duel, punks

That reminds me, I came across an interview with TBoL's lead developer where he explicitly mentions imitating Zelda 2's gameplay and handling.

Niiice Great find!

Zelda 2 is very good, I always loved that one and never really understood why some randos online hated it. It's been awhile I need to play it again, the combat is so satisfying. dueling the knights is fun IMO and not a flaw.

Akshually, I happen to be replaying Link to the Past right now. so satisfying, I wish the N.A. carts didn't indicate on the map where the dungeons are tho. not that it matters after the first playthrough. the dungeons to me are really fun. item found in said dungeon is not always waht needs be used on boss and for mobility, so they hadn't adopted that mold yet. Not a ton of leeway in the possible sequence break department IIRC but a bit of it still

just a really comfy game, like soul food. not as tactical-action-heavy as 2, but the combat really feels responsive, and the arsenal is great (gotta love the boomerang)

The difficulty is extremely demanding, far moreso than the slower, more deliberately paced first game where you can hide in the doorway of many dungeon rooms to deal with tough encounters for instance. Couple that with some genuinely unusual elements such as the enemies that drain EXP when hitting you, the change from items determining your strength to the RPG levelling element where some grinding can be necessary to power up, and a much greater scarcity in recovery items when exploring dungeons, and it's easy to see why this one wasn't nearly as popular as the first and third games were. It's a vastly different beast.

Waaait, there's a version of the game that doesn't? :O :O

JP carts indicate them but not numbered IIRC. I'll go double-check, maybe I hallucinated

in any case, I wish it didn't show them at all eheh