Macross II Anime Film, True Masterpiece! **Heavy Spoilers!**

[doctorx0079]

doctorx0079 - I'm not sure if you're sarcastic or not, but if you're not, what do you see as the problem of getting bootlegs (I'll also include fansubs as well) if there's no other way to get em? Stuff like macross zero or DYRL are not available in the states, and most likely will not be in the near future. Bootlegs and fansubs are, in my opinion, a great way to be able to watch stuff that will never be released here, and it's cheap to free to boot.

They're illegal, the creators who worked on it don't get a red cent, and the publishers hate you. Think of it this way. How much anime is available in your region right now? If you live in the US, a ton. If you live in England, still quite a bit. Have you really watched ALL the good stuff? I don't think I've ever met anyone who has. Until you have watched all the good stuff that's LEGAL, you really don't have an excuse to get fansubs. If it's something that you can legally buy in your own country, but the one on Ebay is cheaper and obviously not legit, then that's REALLY a bootleg and that's worse than a fansub.

Regarding Macross, have you already bought the new ADV release of the original Macross, as well as Macross Plus?? If you must have DYRL you should get Clash of The Bionoids, seriously. If you are really done with all that, try watching something that's not Macross. There's lots of good anime out there besides Macross.

Anime creators and publishers do not owe us anything.

For further clarification, ask Bloodflowers. I agree with him.

[ahnslaught]

I don't think the argument that you can't use fansubs or bootlegs until you've seen EVERY good legit release is a very good one. People have preferences, and they want to watch what they want to watch. It's not like some kind of video game where you have to pass one to be able to get to the next level and all will be fine.

I'm more than willing to pay for legit anime (trust me, I've spent way too much money as it is), and never buy bootlegs if a legit US release is available (the code of the fansubber!); however, if no one's going to release something I want, and there's a way I can get it, by golly I'm going to get it. Another example, not related to macross, is Touch. Probably my favorite show of all time, yet it will never, ever be released in the states. But a subbed version is out there, and I got 'em that way (and it's the only way I would ever have seen that show). You can be sure, however, that if it ever does come out in the US, I'll be the first to order every single dvd that comes out. Is what I am doing illegal? Probably, since someone's not getting paid; however, no one wanted to get the license in the US, so it's their loss. Plus, while lame, it's not like these companies don't know fansubbing occurs - they track it, and lots of times they use it to find out which releases to bring over. If they thought they could make money off of something, they would license and release it here.

Again, I agree, creators and publishers don't owe us anything; however, if they don't want my money from a series and choose not to release it, hey, that's their choice. It's not like I'm not buying stuff that they do choose to bring over, I still do.

FYI, I do have the animeigo versions of macross along with macross plus, but not macross II, and I didn't like clash of the bionoids when I saw it ages ago, so I got DYRL on bootleg.

Too bad I didn't start and finish the post with "yeah, i've seen just about everything there is to see, thanks. Fansub away!"

[Kakizaki]

Well, at least they let the complete Macross series get subbed. Are you sure Harmony Gold is the one suppressing the movie?

Yes...........Bandai was interested in bringing the Macross DYRL PS2 game stateside. Bandai was also interested in bringing over one of the PSX Macross titles -- a preview / demo of which was on an OPM disc. These are just a few of the Macross related media that HG has blocked. I can't remember, but there might be some licensing entanglements regarding DYRL with Big West -- but HG is still the primary force behind this not being here yet.

If you want, feel free to sift through this thread to learn more about it:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=153

They're illegal, the creators who worked on it don't get a red cent, and the publishers hate you. Think of it this way. How much anime is available in your region right now? If you live in the US, a ton. If you live in England, still quite a bit. Have you really watched ALL the good stuff? I don't think I've ever met anyone who has. Until you have watched all the good stuff that's LEGAL, you really don't have an excuse to get fansubs. If it's something that you can legally buy in your own country, but the one on Ebay is cheaper and obviously not legit, then that's REALLY a bootleg and that's worse than a fansub.

I understand what you are trying to say to a degree, but this is slightly lame and flawed reasoning. Technically, playing games outside of their region is 'illegal.' I guess there are a lot of great games besides shooters available in North America and Europe, so play those instead of importing shmups from Japan. I can't help that I am a fan of Macross and I should not have to settle and watch some other series if I don't feel inclined to. As soon as someone pulls there head out of their ass and releases legit region 1's, I will purchase those as well. I do own Battle of the Bionoids and it is a complete mess.

[ahnslaught]

Hey, quick question to anyone with the ADV version of macross -

Is there anything new besides the dubbing to justify buying it if I already have the animeigo release froma couple of years back? I wouldn't think so, since animeigo remastered the show and all, but just curious.

[Blade]

I have this movie on DVD and I have yet to find time to watch it...heck, I heard it was good, so that's why I got it.


I prefer GaoGaiGar myself though.

[Kakizaki]

Is there anything new besides the dubbing to justify buying it if I already have the animeigo release froma couple of years back? I wouldn't think so, since animeigo remastered the show and all, but just curious.

Not really I guess. Nice to have back-ups though. I have heard the Animeigo discs do have some cracking and disc rot problems on occasion. I haven't experienced any yet.....knock on wood.

I really wish DYRL could have been worked into that deal when Animeigo remastered SDF Macross.

[greg]

Guys, don't lump fansubs and bootlegs together. Whereas fansubs promote awareness of anime titles and install a fan base in a region before the official release comes out and can arguably boost sales, bootlegs harm the publishers by offering knockoff fake replacements for the real thing. For example, I had Patlabor fansubs way before the series was released domestically. As a result, I own the entire show on DVD. However, bootlegs put the shows on DVD (quite often with real lousy Chinese Engrish) and stingy people buy them instead of buying the real thing. True fansubbers don't make money off the titles, but bootleggers do.

[ahnslaught]

Guys, don't lump fansubs and bootlegs together. Whereas fansubs promote awareness of anime titles and install a fan base in a region before the official release comes out and can arguably boost sales, bootlegs harm the publishers by offering knockoff fake replacements for the real thing. For example, I had Patlabor fansubs way before the series was released domestically. As a result, I own the entire show on DVD. However, bootlegs put the shows on DVD (quite often with real lousy Chinese Engrish) and stingy people buy them instead of buying the real thing. True fansubbers don't make money off the titles, but bootleggers do.

Hi greg! I gotta disagree for a couple of reasons - I think boots and subs both have the potential to install a fan base before an R1 release, but just as easily have the ability to take away sales from publishers. In fact, fansubs have a greater potential to take away sales, since the quality of the show is higher than boots, and the translations are of much higher caliber. The actual worry I would have, if I was a publisher, are bootleggers who continue to sell their crap to people even after a show's been licensed. My guess is that fansubbers are better about stopping distribution after a show's been licensed than these folk.

Case in point, let's modify your example where you got patlabor (Great taste BTW, my 2nd favorite series of all time!) off fansubs BEFORE the legit R1 release, and that led you to purchase the real dvds when it came out over oh so long a period. I'm betting that if you bought the boots before the R1 release, you would've done the same thing, and it would have been an even easier decision. The boots, unlike fansubs, have horrible Engrish, and also probably pack about 15 episodes on one disc, making it real bad quality. Under those circumstances, why wouldn't you get a comprehensible version?

Similarly, my first bootleg was char's counterattack, but I also bought the R1 release because I know the boot was crap and I liked the movie enough to justify a purchase.

Yes, there are people out there who are cheap bastids who only buy pirated copies, and for them, bootlegs are an irresistable carrot; however, if you really say you like anime, you would support them with money for shows you like that they release here.

So, in the end, I would say that while the motivations of fansubbers and bootleggers are different, when we are talking about releases before a show is licensed, the end result to us, the fans, are the same - it allows fans to watch things that may never get released, and also gives exposure to shows. The problem lies in what happens after a show's been released.

BTW, Engrish on a majority of the bootlegs I've seen are so funny it's embarrassing. It's like they ran it through debabelizer and cut and pasted the result. I have the Fist of the North Star TV series, and about 75% of the time, it calls the main character Kenshiro or Ken; however, a quarter of the time, for some reason they call him "Fist"...

"Oh, Fist, beat up him!"

[greg]

Case in point, let's modify your example where you got patlabor (Great taste BTW, my 2nd favorite series of all time!) off fansubs BEFORE the legit R1 release, and that led you to purchase the real dvds when it came out over oh so long a period. I'm betting that if you bought the boots before the R1 release, you would've done the same thing, and it would have been an even easier decision. The boots, unlike fansubs, have horrible Engrish, and also probably pack about 15 episodes on one disc, making it real bad quality. Under those circumstances, why wouldn't you get a comprehensible version?

Well, maybe I'm missing something here. I've been out of the fansub loop for a very long time, but aren't they always on VHS? Are some fansubbers putting their stuff on DVD?

BTW, Engrish on a majority of the bootlegs I've seen are so funny it's embarrassing. It's like they ran it through debabelizer and cut and pasted the result. I have the Fist of the North Star TV series, and about 75% of the time, it calls the main character Kenshiro or Ken; however, a quarter of the time, for some reason they call him "Fist"...

I had a boot of Sakura Taisen: The Movie before I they released it for the R1 market. I bought the legit version (and special edition at that) sometime after Christmas and got rid of the boot. I noticed that several of the characters had their names changed from Japanese into Chinese, and the boot used those names instead of the original. As a result, Sakura's name was whatever cherryblossom is in Chinese, and they took Ogami's name literally and called him "Great Lord" or something. One thing that didn't make sense was that Orihime became "Jenn G" for some reason...

I have a boot of Kimagure Orange Road, which acutally uses fansub scripts. Even says "not for sale or rent." However, for the OVA's, it's typical Chinese crap. "Much the funny! Brother is play joke now." My next objective will be to buy this entire series for R1 and feel better about myself.

One boot I do not regret getting is the Gradius/Salamander anime on DVD. Fairly decent subtitles, except there are some gaps. At least it's intelligible.

[ahnslaught]

Yeah, I think a lot of fansubbers have moved from vhs onto the internet, via the magic of bittorrent! The last fansub I saw on vhs was Berserk about 5 years ago. I don't know how old the bittorrent fansub community is, but it's pretty big nowadays