Macross II Anime Film, True Masterpiece! **Heavy Spoilers!**

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:13 am

I watched Macross II Movie (DVD) and I must say it was a fantastic film, a true masterpiece!

Here are my thoughts and feelings about the film.

It featured everything a self respecting Anime should deliver.
Awesome animation, epic intergalactic battles, a dramatic / sad story line / plot and a fantastic sound track.

The voice acting in both the US & Japanese versions were very well performed, but my favorite factor in the film was its music.

When Hibiki takes Ishtar to the Moon festival and they listen to Wendy’s Love Song for the first time, with all the fans cheering inside the amphitheatre under the glass dome and the flagship Gloria in orbit, was my favorite moment by far!
I love Lady Ishtar’s ecstatic expressions of joy and happiness. She then reveals her wish to Hibiki, which was to sing the song of love to her own people and bring them peace.

Later on, another very dramatic and shocking moment was when Ishtar starts singing the song of love at the Alus Nova chamber inside the alien flagship, (Sarride) bringing confusion to the Zendraedi soldiers. The outraged Emperor then orders the executioner death ship to cleanse the polluted flagship by blasting it with its laser beams.

Lord Feff and Lady Ishtar, manage to fly out of the doomed flagship inside a battle Mech, just in the brink of time!
As they watch the large nuclear explosion of the Sarride from afar, Ishtar cries for the loss of lady Elensh, but Lord Feff replies:

“Behold, Ishtar…This is the will of Ingues, lord emperor of the Mardook. And this is the result of what you have done!”

The order given by the Emperor to his soldiers is equally dramatic (And very Japanese in style if I may say so)

"Soldiers sworn to the Mardook discipline… In the name of our culture, crush these arrogant vermin!
In this universe nothing exists which can overpower us!
Therefore, resisting our conquest is impossible.
In the name of the Mardook, destroy!"

The final battle between the U.N Spacey forces and the Mardook fleet is one of the best in any Macross / Robotech film.
The music used for the battle scene is just perfect, as you watch the ships mobilizing for the imminent battle to come!
The two huge fleets engage in a devastating clash, in close proximity to the moon’s orbit.
At first impression, it would seem that the earth’s fleet gains the upper hand by wiping out 60% of the Mardook fleet in a single blow after using four Macross cannons, but all of a sudden, a huge wave of enemy ships de-folds and begins hammering the outnumbered earth fleet with a devastating laser storm!
The entire fleet, the Macross Cannons & the Gloria Flagship it self are destroyed!

What’s interesting is that the Earth side fleets, in all the battles that take place in the film; consist almost primarily of old Zendraedi style battle cruisers also seen in the older Macross DYRL film & the Robotech series.

An apocalyptic dialogue that reveals the true feelings of Lord Feff for Lady Ishtar, takes place at the hangar of the Mardook command ship.
Lord Feff releases Ishtar, but before she leaves, he tells her:

"I know no other life but one of a proud Mardook soldier, in service to lord Emperor Ingues.
I will only cease fighting at my death.
Ishtar you must leave now before I regain my senses.
And remember what is my sworn duty. To the Mardook you died by my hand.
No one will know my failure that I dare to love above my people."

Finally, at the earth’s siege, in the last decisive battle over the scourged earth landscape, Ishtar sings the song of hope and sends to everyone the gentleness of her own heart and saves her people from the dictator.

I find Wendy Ryder’s love song (Japanese) (At the Moon festival) better than Minmay’s “Do you Remember Love” song from Macross DYRL and superior to the English translated version “We Will Win” song, from Harmony’s Gold Robotech series imo.
Same goes for “The Hush of Two Hundred Million Years” intro song (Japanese) compared to Macross DYRL & Robotech intros imo.

Overall, Macross II is definitely one of the best Anime films and should be placed in the hall of all time classics!

Lady Ishtar

Macross VF:

Lord Feff and Lady Ishtar at the Hangar:

Lord Emperor Ingues

Lady Ishtar Concept Art.

SDF-1 Fortress

A few nice Wallpapers / Flyers:

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2453/ishtari4wo.jpg
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2638 ... 53b4eh.jpg
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5774/i ... 0249ke.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/7007/ishtar14oy.jpg
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/6875 ... 11b2jn.jpg

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:12 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:HEY, PAUL! *swings axe*
AHHHHHHHH!!!!

Heh... I loved the movie as well, and lucky for me it was one of the very first anime's i ever saw.

The most memorable aspects for me where the shots of her holographic image displayed floating in space amidst the battle set to her song and the character design of the Zendraedi leader guy... but it's been awhile since i've seen it.

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:57 am

By the way, anyone know the exact name of Wendy Ryder’s love song (Japanese) (At the Moon festival)?

It's pretty short (Less than 2min...)

I'd like to buy the soundtrack just for that song!

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:46 pm

Interesting, I didn't think much of it when I watched it, probably because I knew it was chopped up from several OAV episodes. Maybe I'll watch it again sometime.

I wish I could meet a sexy hot alien chick too.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:26 pm

Wow, someone else likes the Macross II film! It was practically forsaken at its time to Macross Plus (which I find horribly overrated and un-Macross) but the short experience is excellent with beautiful animation and a proper Macross story). Haven't seen it for like 7 years though...

BIG · Post by **BIG** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:11 pm

Excellent movie. I saw it about 10 years ago.

If anyone needs a copy,I'll sell you mine cheap

B-

ahnslaught · Post by **ahnslaught** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:17 am

Ganelon, just curious - what did you find unMacross with Macross Plus? I personally thought it had all the elements - music, action, hell, even a love triangle (as weird as that one is in Macross Plus) - that make it quite true to the original. True, the story is less epic, but then again, it's only a 4 part ova; however, I thought it did a good job of showing life after the two races started to live together.

I've also been looking for a chance to snatch the macross II dvd for cheap...I saw one part of the ova like ten years ago on vhs, and i thought it was ok, but now I'm intrigued yet again.

Also, since we're on the Macross topic, has anyone checked out macross zero? I'm curious as to what you all think. Personally, it has fricking amazing flight scenes, but the story's just too...out there. Still, it's good to see a modern day rendition of Roy Focker!

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:21 am

ahnslaught wrote:Also, since we're on the Macross topic, has anyone checked out macross zero? I'm curious as to what you all think. Personally, it has fricking amazing flight scenes, but the story's just too...out there. Still, it's good to see a modern day rendition of Roy Focker!

I really liked it. Cool robots and hot (nekkid) island girls and kaboom explosions =

ahnslaught · Post by **ahnslaught** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:23 am

Spoken like a true iatneH

But I also agree

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:04 am

ahnslaught wrote:Ganelon, just curious - what did you find unMacross with Macross Plus? I personally thought it had all the elements - music, action, hell, even a love triangle (as weird as that one is in Macross Plus) - that make it quite true to the original. True, the story is less epic, but then again, it's only a 4 part ova; however, I thought it did a good job of showing life after the two races started to live together.

Macross Plus doesn't really have a Macross story. While love is an essential element of the plot, the revelation of love does not end the conflict. That is, the timeless moral of love triumphing over war did not exist in Macross Plus. In addition, the main love triangle formed almost the whole plot with no emphasis on a unified worldwide assault on a deadly alien race, the kind of conflict that promotes worldwide peace. There is no racial conflict (despite an easy opportunity to do so) and not even a sense of character existence beyond the main three. The enemy isn't even organic and so the story doesn't try to accomplish anything besides tell gloomy, outside-blaming, mentally deficient people to consider whether some problems in their life were results of their own mistakes.

Also, the CG scenes look wholly out-of-place with a coldness that directly conflicts with the original Macross's warm environments and hand-rendered art, which help exemplify the living, emotional aspect of everything. In addition, extended combat scenes never played a pivotal role in the original Macross. You had a few dogfights and that was it. Macross Plus is comprised of almost a majority of combat scenes with silly rhetorical speech (like Gundam Char's Counterattack). The emphasis on valkyrie fighting and laughable combat banter leave a very small well of emotions in the film to be uncovered by the audience.

Macross II in its short length accomplishes all the essential points of what the original touched upon: companionship amidst an epic battle, love intermingled with uncertainty, and an ephemeral war that shapes the future of man/alienkind. If it wasn't for Sharon Apple's music (which totally perverts the music=goodlovepeace theme of the original Macross), the Valkyries, and the fact that there are Zentraedis, it could have been any other series. Great for people who want an action-filled, Frankenstein-themed, CG-laden mecha series, but it just doesn't never felt like Macross to me.

Anyway, I haven't seen Macross Zero but thought Macross 7 was a bit too silly.

ahnslaught · Post by **ahnslaught** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:53 am

Very well thought out answer, Ganelon. I suppose we were just looking for different things from macross plus - as I said before, I liked seeing what happened after the two races came together, i.e. working in the military as equals, and liked the side story presented. I actually thought the racial conflict was already dealt with quite well in the original series, and I like epic stories to take its time, over a tv season, over a short ova, so I like the more limited story.

Anyway, I do agree that CG is usually a bad idea for anime in general, and the space fold scenes in macross plus were especially bad (looks like a visualization on itunes), but there wasn't too much of it to really affect it too much. BTW, the CG in macross zero is amazing - while the models themselves are not the greatest, it's definitely the best I've seen in terms of quality of animation. Definitely check it out on fansubs or dvds if you can get em (Though I hear it may never be released in the states...sigh)

I'm looking more forward to macross 2 after these posts, however. The first episode of the ova turned me off somewhat because of the "Minmay defense!" but it sure sounds like the rest of the story is better.

Oh, and macross 7, though I haven't seen it, just sounds cringeworthy because of the band-turned-fighters or whatever storyline. Feel free to correct me on that one if I'm wrong.

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:00 am

I have the 4 Macross Plus Episodes & Macross Plus Movie on DVD, but apart from the 4th episode which was pretty cool (Nice action / plot, cool dog fights & music) the rest of the film & episodes, were pretty boring & very overated.

Macross II was better imo.

By the way, hasn't Macross Zero been released on DVD with English subtitles all ready:

Or is this a bootleg copy?
http://www.sundevildvd.com/store/produc ... t=0&page=1

ahnslaught · Post by **ahnslaught** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:45 am

I think the price itself tells you the answer.

From what I've heard, there's some licensing dispute over macross in the US that's been going on for a while, with the creator of robotech saying they have all rights to macross in the US, or something like that. A pity, really.

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:07 pm

Then again, that DVD itself could be released directly from Bandai themselves since they're a global company after all.

Apparently, it would seem that there are two different complete (5 episode) DVD collections:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Macross-Zero-Deluxe ... dZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Macross-Zero-0-DVD- ... dZViewItem

They've got 2 different covers and they're both region free (0)

Interesting... now I'm confused, which is the better of the two?

And what about these:

Macros DYRL
http://www.sundevildvd.com/store/produc ... t=0&page=1

Macross 7
http://www.sundevildvd.com/store/produc ... t=0&page=1

Are they bootlegs?

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:07 pm

Sly Cherry Chunks · Post by **Sly Cherry Chunks** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:00 pm

I'm not the biggest anime fan - but I have to say that both Detonator Orgunn and GunBuster are far superior to this.

The toys look shit hot though.

ahnslaught · Post by **ahnslaught** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:39 pm

ST Dragon - again, I'm 99% confident that those are bootlegs. If Bandai Visual or any other place released them, they would be region 1 or 2 or whatever, and definitely not selling for $4. I have nothing against bootlegs (hell, I've bought some, with bad subtitles and all), but I'm just saying you shouldn't expect them to be the real things.

As for the DYRL, I have one of the bootlegs, and it actually has really good subs. Mine has a painting of Hikaru and Minmay in a orange/black background (sorry, don't have access to a camera right now).

Sly Cherry Chunks wrote:I'm not the biggest anime fan - but I have to say that both Detonator Orgunn and GunBuster are far superior to this.

whoa, whoa, whoa...I haven't seen gunbuster, but comparing detonator orgun to macross plus, macross, macross zero or even the short bit I've seen of macross 2 are fightin' words if I ever heard one. And this is coming from a man who paid $30 per detonator orgun vhs tape when it came out over 10 years ago.

Sly Cherry Chunks · Post by **Sly Cherry Chunks** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:48 pm

Well, I've seen Macross II and Plus. Couldn't comment on the ones I've missed but yeah, I prefer Orgunn.

GunBuster is truly excellent though.

Post by **Ghegs** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:55 pm

Whoa. Is this thread about Macross II: Super Dimensional Fortress (aka. Do You Remember Love)?

I remember back a few years ago this was shown at a local movie festival. Five minutes into the movie when the zentradi attack and the holographic "Minmay Dance Attack" or whatever comes on the entire audience bursts out laughing.

Maybe I just don't understand Macross the same way since I didn't grow up with it, but less teenlovey-dovey and more fighty-fighty equals better in my book.

Macross Plus is still sweet.

And Orgun. If it wasn't for that one moment of stupidness near the end it'd be my favourite mech-anime around.

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:03 pm

By the way, what's the difference between Macross DYRL "Perfect Edition" and the "basic" edition (if there is one)?
If that Macross DYRL is not the "Perfect Edition" then what is it?

How good is the video/audio quality of these bootlegs?
And how are all these Bootlegs made? Are they DivX re-mastered into DVDs, or do they simply copy the original Japanese DVDs, add the English subs, re-print and repackage them without the original publisher’s seal?

Thanks.

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:26 pm

I'm frustrated that Macross: DYRL has not been released domestically on DVD. The Region 2 version on Amazon.jp costs about $80. I'll be on the lookout for this on DVD or LD when I go to Japan in two weeks.

Macross II is great because it's a sequel to the movie, which I love so much. Macross Plus was boring and Macross 7 was incredibly silly. I'm very interested in seeing some Macross Zero. I'm hoping it will be released domestically.

BTW, what's with ADV releasing the Macross TV series on DVD? Didn't that belong to AnimEigo?

Kakizaki · Post by **Kakizaki** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:39 pm

Wow, you made this exact same thread on the Macross World forums.....

BTW, what's with ADV releasing the Macross TV series on DVD? Didn't that belong to AnimEigo?

Animeigo was 'borrowing' the rights through Harmony Gold. Those rights expired last year. ADV is basically distributing the remastered Animeigo version, but it also includes an English dub.

[/quote]By the way, what's the difference between Macross DYRL "Perfect Edition" and the "basic" edition (if there is one)?
If that Macross DYRL is not the "Perfect Edition" then what is it?

There have been quite a few bootlegs as there is no official / true R1 release for DYRL. The Perfect edition just includes some of the theatrical trailers. It also has better subtitles than some of the other versions.

Your best bet would be to read the thread at Macross World that others directed you to. It has quite a bit of info for people who aren't overly familiar with Macross.

Whoa. Is this thread about Macross II: Super Dimensional Fortress (aka. Do You Remember Love)?

Macross II and Macross: DYRL are entirely different. Macross DYRL is supposed to be a quasi retelling of the original series and IMO is one of the best mecha based movies around. Macross II is widely considered the bastard child of the series and not considered cannon at all.

The Macross series is one of my favorite series -- I guess I thought Macross II was garbage. It starts out, kind of okay, but well.....yuck. You can really tell the budget dropped near the end of the ova. Some of the music was decent, and some of the mecha were decent, but it just doesn't fit in with the timeline.

Kakizaki · Post by **Kakizaki** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:00 pm

Whoa. Is this thread about Macross II: Super Dimensional Fortress (aka. Do You Remember Love)?

Nevermind. I get what you are saying with this now. I rarely see Macross II framed with 'DYRL'...it is usually with 'Lovers Again.'

DirtyMonk · Post by **DirtyMonk** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:39 am

Kakizaki wrote:I guess I thought Macross II was garbage. It starts out, kind of okay, but well.....yuck. You can really tell the budget dropped near the end of the ova. Some of the music was decent, and some of the mecha were decent, but it just doesn't fit in with the timeline.

I totally agree with you here. Without Shoji Kawamori, there is no Macross. Macross II was just an uninspired rehash of DYRL with fanfic mecha. To say it is better than DYRL is like saying Dodonpachi 2: Bee Storm is better than DDP or preferring Terminator 3 over the first two.

And Macross Plus is fucking awesome.

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:03 am

ST Dragon wrote:
Are they bootlegs?

It's really not even a question. If they're region-free they're bootlegs. Period, no buts, end of story. If you buy bootlegs you suck and Shoji Kawamori will personally kill you. Well he should anyway.

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:33 am

It was funny the part where a news journalist flies up into the middle of a fleet-on-fleet space battle and escapes with the enemy's unguarded secret weapon.

I guess the ship she was stationed in was badly damaged and its defences neutralized.
It blew up right after they left.

ahnslaught · Post by **ahnslaught** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:25 pm

doctorx0079 - I'm not sure if you're sarcastic or not, but if you're not, what do you see as the problem of getting bootlegs (I'll also include fansubs as well) if there's no other way to get em? Stuff like macross zero or DYRL are not available in the states, and most likely will not be in the near future. Bootlegs and fansubs are, in my opinion, a great way to be able to watch stuff that will never be released here, and it's cheap to free to boot.

Kakizaki · Post by **Kakizaki** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:56 pm

I waited a long time to see Macross DYRL, hoping that Harmony Gold would be more open / less restrictive -- I couldn't wait forever. I wouldn't buy the boots if there had been a legit Region 1 release. Harmony Gold seems devoted to promoting Robotrash, while blocking Macross's true lineage. Too bad.....

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:29 pm

Well, at least they let the complete Macross series get subbed. Are you sure Harmony Gold is the one suppressing the movie?

greg · Post by **greg** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:32 pm

Did anyone ever see the terrible "Clash of the Bionoids?" There was a British
dub of Macross: DYRL that was fairly decent. Then they cut out a lot of the
violence, and basically edited the crap out of the movie to create a North
American version of the movie called "Clash of the Bionoids." Pretty terrible.
I'm sure there are still VHS copies floating around, but why bother?

shmups.system11.org

Macross II Anime Film, True Masterpiece! Heavy Spoilers!

Macross II Anime Film, True Masterpiece! Heavy Spoilers!

Re: Macross II Anime Film, True Masterpiece! **Heavy Spoiler