I'm doing it wrong

[shmupsrocks]

Something is really attractive about shmups and I'm not even sure what it is. I'm old-ish and I have a family so I'm pretty busy but there's something about these games that makes me want to participate. I put together an arcade PCB collection but I can't spend a lot of time playing so I've been limiting myself to one credit at a time but I'm getting almost nowhere and sometimes getting pretty pissed off. I tried playing each section of Kyukyoku Tiger 2 over and over until I was doing it perfectly so I could keep the max weapon to make the game easier but that started to drive me nuts. I think I need to adjust my approach and/or the games I'm playing.

How would you go about devoting time to these games if you didn't have much of it to spare and you were looking for maximum fun and even relaxation?

My favorite game so far is Blazing Star. It's a lot easier than the others and it doesn't seem to piss me off. Any others along those lines?

[KAI]

How would you go about devoting time to these games if you didn't have much of it to spare and you were looking for maximum fun and even relaxation?

Arcade games in particular are designed to be played in short periods of time you know, in case you keep losing, you just stop playing and try later.

Git gud step by step, day by day, that's part of their replay value.

[Barba]

Some people would discourage from trying easier games first, also defining what is easy and what isn't is surprisingly subjective - there is however a list on this forum that you might look into for inspiration:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59651

And I personally find Blazing Star not that easy actually (neither does this list).

[shmupsrocks]

Git gud step by step, day by day, that's part of their replay value.

In order to get good, should I be playing a certain way or with a certain thing in mind or just play?

[shmupsrocks]

Some people would discourage from trying easier games first, also defining what is easy and what isn't is surprisingly subjective - there is however a list on this forum that you might look into for inspiration:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59651

Great list! If I overlay it with this one:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=62178

to pick out very good and very easy games I come up with Armed Police Batrider and Batsugun Special. I need those.

The games with difficulty <=10 on that list that I have are Prehistoric Isle 2, Gekirindan, Darius Gaiden, Area 88, and Raiden Fighters 2. Besides Area 88 those games don't seem particularly easy to me but I haven't spent much time with them yet so I'll take a closer look ASAP.

I want Storm Blade and Twinkle Star Sprites even more now and since MVS stuff is pretty easy to find I should grab Sonic Wings 3 and Last Resort.

[gray117]

Play how you want to...

Sounds like you kind of like the structure/idea of 'beating' a game; be that either just in a limited number of credits (or 1) or whatever goal you set. So I'd encourage to keep trying to do that.

However...

There's also no reason to just suffer, and/or not to be able to at least enjoy your moments of suffering amid glorious shmup fun - so perhaps in your case I would kind of schedule cheat days/periods or whatever works best for yourself. Have a bit of muck around, credit feed, perhaps even try a different game that isn't your current game to beat. But don't do this totally haphazardly, otherwise for your personality it'll probably just end up feeling like you're cheating... instead of being an aimless haphazard activity view these sessions like an appreciation/test/palette-cleanse time. Take a moment to look at parts of the games you might not take the time for when just 'beating' it: the music, the backgrounds, any little details nice touches, the related tech, score vs survival etc.

Hopefully, you'll find a balance that keeps the (self) competitive side rewarded and satisfied, but also fulfils your (compulsive and appreciative) enjoyment of simply playing the games - whether you succeed/fail, or are just taking a stroll down bullet alley.

[shmupsrocks]

I personally find Blazing Star not that easy

Have you tried with the last ship? The one with a bullet shield thing?

[Mark_MSX]

Something is really attractive about shmups and I'm not even sure what it is. I'm old-ish and I have a family so I'm pretty busy but there's something about these games that makes me want to participate. I put together an arcade PCB collection but I can't spend a lot of time playing so I've been limiting myself to one credit at a time but I'm getting almost nowhere and sometimes getting pretty pissed off. I tried playing each section of Kyukyoku Tiger 2 over and over until I was doing it perfectly so I could keep the max weapon to make the game easier but that started to drive me nuts. I think I need to adjust my approach and/or the games I'm playing.

How would you go about devoting time to these games if you didn't have much of it to spare and you were looking for maximum fun and even relaxation?

My favorite game so far is Blazing Star. It's a lot easier than the others and it doesn't seem to piss me off. Any others along those lines?

Prometheus put together a fantastic guide about quickly and efficiently learning shmups, I think you'll find it extremely helpful!

https://goo.gl/Fi2zE

(It can be applied to all shmups, not just Dodonpachi.)

[munchiaz]

You may also wanna try practicing some of these games using MAME so you can replay sections over and over until you nail them down.

[Mark_MSX]

I agree! Though use shmupmame, which decreases input lag.

[Shepardus]

Git gud step by step, day by day, that's part of their replay value.

In order to get good, should I be playing a certain way or with a certain thing in mind or just play?

To get good, play the parts you have trouble with over and over and over again. To not hate yourself, shmups, and life in general, don't.

[OmegaFlareX]

I agree! Though use shmupmame, which decreases input lag.

Why you of all people are recommending shmupmame instead of ShmupArch is utterly confusing. Especially because he says he likes Neo Geo games, which FBA fully supports.

OP: With most emulation platforms, input lag is indeed a problem, but don't use shmupmame for practice. It's old and crusty. Look into ShmupArch (I posted in the thread yesterday so it should be on the first page still) or just regular MAME.

Also you didn't mention what your setup is for playing PCBs. Supergun, cab, CRT, LED, what? CRTs and Japanese-made controls will give you the best experience.

As far as the games go, a few basics:
- Never die with bombs in stock. Ever. Always use them in trouble spots when first learning a game.
- Watch where all the bullets are headed, but pay special attention to the gaps between them. This is very important for Danmakus, but still has plenty of applications in the older shmups styles.
- Small movements. Don't oversteer.
- If you're using a supergun and an analog stick on a controller, STOP THAT RIGHT NOW. Never use an analog stick in a 2D game unless it was explicitly designed for it. You will be able to move far more precisely with the D-pad. If it has a shitty d-pad, look into getting a joystick.

[DialKnight]

The best thing about shmups is they are digestible in bite sizes, and huge chunks. No matter what, there is always time for a round. Lots of folks dedicate time to a single game and hit THE WALL, that's the perfect time to try something different. You should only dedicate long clips if you are actually enjoying the game. Otherwise, give yourself to an arcade mentality
"this game keeps eating my quarters and the fun is gone"
spend your quarters elsewhere, and cleanse that pallet. If your dyed in the wool about a game, I hear a lot of the big league shooters obsess about the game, redraw the stage maps and enemy placements from memory and a few other fun things, like spending real money to practice. Fun note, if you credit feed, see how many it takes, and try to bring it down everytime, if you translate it to money you can have an embellisim.
Play the game you like and if you get burnt, play another. Put the time in if you fall in love with it. MAME or stage select if you want to steamroll a game. Half the fun is getting there though. Every good game is like a walk in the park, you learn all the trees and details that make it special to you, enjoy yourself.

[louisg]

I've gone back to playing a lot of made-for-console shmups since I find them to be a lot easier to manage in my adult life. When I was in college, I loved the brutal difficulty of Mars Matrix. But, these days, I just don't have the same time and energy as my younger, ultra-caffinated self. Some arcade games also just need more sustained practice than others. I'm not totally sure why; it might just be how an individual clicks with it, or how telegraphed the attacks are.

If you like Blazing Star, I have to recommend Thunderforce III, IV, and V. II to a lesser extent. Arcade-wise, possibly R-Type Leo..? I'd say avoid games with checkpoint restarts and go for ones that let you continue, knowing that you'll do better at that part next time around. There are also all the Psikyo shmups: One great thing about those are all the difficulty gradations. You can start very easy, and keep bumping up the difficulty bit by bit until you've got it down.

For relaxation, definitely Thunderforce III. You get that homing weapon and it turns into a cruise 'em up. For more cruise-y shmups that slowly build, I dig Soldier Blade, Gate of Thunder, MUSHA and the GG Aleste games, Spriggan, and maybe Star Pariodier to a certain extent. These are games with really entertaining music and visuals, and they don't kick your butt until later in the game.

[trap15]

The best thing about shmups is they are digestible in bite sizes, and huge chunks. No matter what, there is always time for a round. Lots of folks dedicate time to a single game and hit THE WALL, that's the perfect time to try something different. You should only dedicate long clips if you are actually enjoying the game. Otherwise, give yourself to an arcade mentality
"this game keeps eating my quarters and the fun is gone"
spend your quarters elsewhere, and cleanse that pallet. If your dyed in the wool about a game, I hear a lot of the big league shooters obsess about the game, redraw the stage maps and enemy placements from memory and a few other fun things, like spending real money to practice. Fun note, if you credit feed, see how many it takes, and try to bring it down everytime, if you translate it to money you can have an embellisim.
Play the game you like and if you get burnt, play another. Put the time in if you fall in love with it. MAME or stage select if you want to steamroll a game. Half the fun is getting there though. Every good game is like a walk in the park, you learn all the trees and details that make it special to you, enjoy yourself.

This is a really good post, I strongly agree with everything you've said here

[Stevens]

The best thing about shmups is they are digestible in bite sizes, and huge chunks. No matter what, there is always time for a round. Lots of folks dedicate time to a single game and hit THE WALL, that's the perfect time to try something different. You should only dedicate long clips if you are actually enjoying the game. Otherwise, give yourself to an arcade mentality
"this game keeps eating my quarters and the fun is gone"
spend your quarters elsewhere, and cleanse that pallet. If your dyed in the wool about a game, I hear a lot of the big league shooters obsess about the game, redraw the stage maps and enemy placements from memory and a few other fun things, like spending real money to practice. Fun note, if you credit feed, see how many it takes, and try to bring it down everytime, if you translate it to money you can have an embellisim.
Play the game you like and if you get burnt, play another. Put the time in if you fall in love with it. MAME or stage select if you want to steamroll a game. Half the fun is getting there though. Every good game is like a walk in the park, you learn all the trees and details that make it special to you, enjoy yourself.

This is a really good post, I strongly agree with everything you've said here

Agreed. Veteran or rookie - this should be required reading for anyone who is into shooters.

[shmupsrocks]

This thread is turning into solid gold for me.

DialKnight you rule.

louisg, cruise-em-ups yeah that sounds about right. Do you like any arcade games that are a little more modern that the ones you listed? Mid to late 90s are my sweet spot although R-Type Leo is 1992 and it looks great. Thunder Force IV would probably be borderline for me. Star Pariodier I can't find anywhere.

[Special World]

I think the surest way is to just find a shooting game you really love. You'll get better and have a blast doing it. It helps if it isn't the hardest shooter ever. But truly loving a game is the best way to get better. And I wouldn't limit yourself to one credit--if you do that, you're not practicing the later stages. It doesn't matter if you crush stage 1 if stage 3 is where you're having a problem. Plus, that leads to the first 2 stages being an absolute snooze. I'd at least use the level select option if you have a good port. I'm not really huge on using savestates myself. It's just boring and decontextualized to me.

For me, the only shmups I've been able to clear are ones I really love. And obviously there are ones I really love that I can't clear. But my first 1CC (I think?) was Mushi Futari Black, which is somewhat easy for a bullet hell but quite hard compared to games at large. I just loved it though. I played the shit out of it, and after months and months of playing on and off for fun, maybe even two years, I finally beat it.

On the other hand, I really enjoy EspGaluda II, and I feel like there's a wall at the end of stage 3 (I think?) that means I'll never beat the game. The boss in the tank just takes waaaay too long to kill. I don't know if I'm doing it wrong or something, but it doesn't really bother me. It's a fun game, and I have fun when I play it. You're not "gaining" anything by 1CCing a shmup. Nobody really cares except you. And if you're taking time away from your family to do it--well sometimes that's okay, but overall it's pretty silly.

[shmupsrocks]

spending real money to practice

This got me thinking. One of the things that draws me to arcade games is the economics and how that affects the design of the games. Has anyone rigged up a quarter slot with their supergun so they can blow real quarters on credits? I can imagine how that could really complete the experience not just for nostalgia but for the economic component. It feels weird to credit feed with a button and nothing at stake. I could donate the money to charity or something.

[OmegaFlareX]

I could donate the money to charity or something.

That would be a really cool idea for a regular stream or event or something.

I've seen Trap put actual ¥100 in his cabs on stream, but there isn't really "economics" as you mentioned since he has the coinbox key and can just retrieve them whenever he runs out.

[poptart]

My advice is just don't bother, you don't have what it takes and your mindset is wrong, stick to quick meaningless highs from sick grabs to tweet to your dad retro friends on social media.

[dan76]

Some good stuff in this thread.

I'd say pick a game to learn and stick with it.

Credit feed your way through to the end of the game so you don't face anything unknown on a single credit run. If you keep doing this and learning the whole thing the number of credits it takes to clear should eventually start to come down. You can then start focusing in single stages.

Pre-emptive bombing! I'm pretty sure this was in Prometheus guide, but it blew my tiny mind when I read it. It's obvious. If there's a section you always find tricky just bomb. Don't worry about getting through that part unscathed, don't even attempt it. Just bomb for now and bring those credits down. You can focus on those tough parts once your comfortable clearing the game.

[Square_Air]

My advice is just don't bother, you don't have what it takes and your mindset is wrong, stick to quick meaningless highs from sick grabs to tweet to your dad retro friends on social media.

Woah, I think it's trying to communicate with us. Quick, someone grab the /shumpg/ Rosetta Stone.

[garrz32]

Some good stuff in this thread.

I'd say pick a game to learn and stick with it.

Credit feed your way through to the end of the game so you don't face anything unknown on a single credit run. If you keep doing this and learning the whole thing the number of credits it takes to clear should eventually start to come down. You can then start focusing in single stages.

Pre-emptive bombing! I'm pretty sure this was in Prometheus guide, but it blew my tiny mind when I read it. It's obvious. If there's a section you always find tricky just bomb. Don't worry about getting through that part unscathed, don't even attempt it. Just bomb for now and bring those credits down. You can focus on those tough parts once your comfortable clearing the game.

^ This is pretty sound advice which makes a lot of sense if you think about it.

[finisherr]

There is a strategy section in this board that should help. There are some basic skills that you can pick up from reading the pinned threads.

[FRO]

My advice is just don't bother, you don't have what it takes and your mindset is wrong, stick to quick meaningless highs from sick grabs to tweet to your dad retro friends on social media.

LOL, every thread needs a dash of cynicism, amirite?

In all seriousness, there are lots of great suggestions in the thread. One of the reasons I started my shmup club is to explore the genre more, and force myself to dive into games I might otherwise have neglected, or to put time into something on my shelf that I bought, intending to play, but never got around to. If what you're looking to get out of the genre is fun, play a game long enough to find out if you like it, then decide if it's worth investing more time into. If so, either add that to a short list, or just keep playing. If not, scratch it off the list and move on. Life is too short to waste it on something that will only frustrate you, when it's a leisure activity like gaming. I've tried to force myself to play through games I wasn't enjoying, or was very frustrated by, and that just makes it worse. Sure, I paid money for a game, and I want to get my money's worth, but as an adult, I can cut my losses and move on.