Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Sumez]

Funny, because what I really like about XX is really how basic barebones "Castlevania" it is. I consider CV4 a vastly more inconsistent experience.

[BIL]

I was considering editing that to express roughly similar sentiments. IV's generally not as strong a pure methodical action/platformer as I/III or Rondo/X68K/VK (or XX in its stride). However, I do think it carries off its slightly less rigorous, significantly more filmic take on CV with considerable smoothness. It's a bit long for single sittings, but I always enjoy the gradual ramping up from relatively harmless atmospheric openers, to the more combat-heavy midgame, to the deathtrap-riddled closing quartet.

It's the moody, occasionally-revisited at winter member of the quartet and I enjoy it for that, particularly with its having the traditional series' most maturely mellow, brooding, turbulent OST.

If XX marshaled its blood-simple, nails-hard CV1esques with the consistency of that game, and perhaps smoothed out its rough edges (trudgy walk speed, broken pathfinding), I suspect I'd unequivocally rank it alongside the compulsively excellent 93 trio (for accuracy's sake, VK of course saw release in '94, but three CVs of that quality in the pipeline in one year is just undeniably impressive).

[__SKYe]

That shit looks way more obscene than blood ever could. >_<

Spoiler

As fantastic as it looks, I have to say it is pretty weird to see Death bleed so profusely.

The arcade version feels much more raw in the way you probably want from a beat'em up, however it's entirely mitigated by the elbow smash being able to safely damage any enemy with little danger - conversely, it's also way too easy to lose lives from falling into holes or traps as they start appearing. Not really a big fan of that either. An even bigger problem, however, might be the the almost constant slowdown! The game plays really nice when it's running at full speed, but that happens around 5% of the time at best.
Yet another issue is that with the attacks that require multiple simultaneous button presses (the elbow, again) is very prone to errors, even when you don't feel that you are doing anything wrong, and I'm still not sure why that is. Using classic Sanwa buttons.

The NES version plays nicely, with the controls feeling more consistent and manageable, everything considered, though the lack of a dedicated jump button is very annoying. I didn't really put a lot of time into it, only two short runs, as the PlayChoice control panel made my arms hurt. It's pretty much an entirely different game, but I'd probably say it's the better game of the two.

The arcade version is my least favourite version, precisely because you can go through it by abusing the elbow, and due the ungodly amount of slowdown you get during gameplay.
I also very much dislike the fact that you can no-miss it up until the final level, only to lose the entire credit on the spears & wall section on the last level. The FC game's counterpart actual has a pattern, as BIL posted a while back, so there might be some too on the arcade version, though it certainly seems random.

The FC game is pretty nice. Not as polished as the second game, but still quite fun to play. Read a bit through the discussion that happened a while back (around here, with BIL's no-miss video here) for a few tips -- there are certainly some quirks to it, but the game gets more enjoyable when you're aware of them.

Not a big fan of how the moves are unlocked as you progress through the game, but basically, once you get the jump kick, just spam that.

The standard jump kick misses a fair bit, and also makes most encounters pretty long winded (especially against Abobo(s)). Later on you'll unlock the spin kick/roundhouse and the uppercut as well.

So I popped in Famicom Double Dragon 2 yesterday, due to all the love it's been getting around here. Starting out playing on Normal to get a feel for it (sorry.)

Don't be sorry, Hard mode of DD2 is significantly tougher than Normal and I've also yet to clear it.

Compared to Mighty Final Fight it definitely feels a lot more crude with many situations where I get knocked down and have no idea what I did wrong (a very obvious example is the burly military looking dude you meet early in the section with the low spike ceiling). The controls are even more awkward than DD1, still lacking a dedicated jump button, but rather using a completely superflous button for attacking the opposite direction.

That is indeed a tough encounter since you can't jump, but it's worth saying that it is, if I'm not mistaken, the only place where you fight without being able to jump. This whole section is brutal on Hard, since you cannot afford to mess up. See BIL's no-miss video for this game to see how it should be done.

Watching videos of people playing on the highest difficulty, it is clear that the game relies almost entirely on mastering the cyclone kick and the knee attack, which I didn't even realise existed when trying the game. Seems it can only be executed after landing from a jump, with very specific timing, and simultanous button presses, similar to the jump itself. Judging by the love that the game gets, I assume it's fun to do when you get a feeling for it, but it seems kind of offputting to me that the game relies on such a series of awkward inputs.

Though they do require some accuracy, it's not nearly as hard as you're thinking -- just press one of the buttons as you land from a jump (or anything as long as you're kneeling, including after performing an uppercut/knee). You can even string them together if your timing is good. I don't quite remember right now, but I think only the knee attack requires both buttons, while the uppercut only requires one of them. You'll get used to it after a while, no problem.

The platforming sections are the weakest part of the game, but as much as I don't care for them, I have to say that they aren't too bad (at least until you get used to them).

What are people's thoughts on the classic Nekketsu Monogatari? Or Street Gangs as it was called, over here.

I find it decent to play in single player mode, because the RPG mechanics sort of dilute the beat-em-up gameplay, though it is still fun. Its value really comes from the multiplayer aspect, as you can just fuck around with a friend, without really having a time limit to obey, something that is unique to this game.

[Sumez]

See BIL's no-miss video for this game to see how it should be done.

BIL does in fact get knocked down by that guy, and I still have no idea why

[__SKYe]

See BIL's no-miss video for this game to see how it should be done.

BIL does in fact get knocked down by that guy, and I still have no idea why

That's because he'll destroy you at range. Notice how BIL tries (and succeeds) to score a knockdown so that he can go right into the enemy's face and hit him without allowing him to gain any space (he does so by performing one of the special attacks on standing up, which you can do). DD2 is a bit rough in this regard, as overall you need pretty decent spacing in order to beat enemies unschated (or close to). This is much more noticeably here because you can't jump and have to close in while on the ground.
See how he handles the Abobo at the end of the same section, by getting close to the right side of the screen as he appears, and immediately pounding him without giving him a chance to gain distance.

[BIL]

Ah, Mission 4 FC Hard O'Hara. He's a real prick! Offhand, I suspect the only way to guarantee a no-hit fight is to pre-emptively whack your head on the ceiling (contrary to the menacing spikes and obvious head trauma, it's totally harmless), then own him with a recovering uppercut. Once you've floored him he's as good as dead, provided you know your zoning and get in nice and close.

In that replay, I was trying not to abuse the roof too much, so I just walk up on him and chance my luck. FC Hard enemy aggression is off the fucking charts (the NES equivalent, "Supreme Master," is only Normal here and utterly wimpy by comparison), so I get knocked down - but it's a calculated gamble, since I've got plenty of HP and it gets me nearer to that critical point-blank zone; then it's all over for our Ahnuld-looking pal.

The real threat in that section are the preceding Right Arms, probably the game's single most lethal regular enemy encounter. It's the only spot where I follow a rigid plan (see my replay), because if they pincer you, it's gonna get hellaciously ugly. Even if you claw your way out of the merciless beatdown, you might lose enough HP to die to O'Hara's brutal initial zoning advantage, or bad execution/luck in the claws/closing skirmish.

I have a few more things to contribute about FC DD1+2, but I'm headed out the door and Skye's made an excellent start, so will check in later. A few scattered pointers for now, as I wait for my train to pull up to Tinkletowne Railway Station on the corner of OohGuvna Lane and RumpyPumpy Ave:

The FC game is pretty nice. Not as polished as the second game, but still quite fun to play. Read a bit through the discussion that happened a while back (around here, with BIL's no-miss video here) for a few tips -- there are certainly some quirks to it, but the game gets more enjoyable when you're aware of them.

> Ah yes, perhaps my favourite publication of old Dr. Biruford's! "On The Zoning Mechanics of Famicom Double Dragon," or "L2P FC DOUBLE DRAGON YOU FUCKIN GODLESS NOOBS" Ya, you don't need to spam the jumpkick at all. It's more of a mobility tool for getting in close, if anything.

> DDII Knee vs Uppercut timing: yep, uppercut is just [punch] (depends on your direction) when you're either hitting the ground, or standing back up. Much more forgiving than the Knee timing - that has to be executed with A+B in a very tight window between landing and rising. It's hard for sure, but very masterable. I highly recommend nice responsive buttons, the timing's tight enough that crummy action will hobble you. Note that on FC Hard, the Uppercut is also a much surer attack, as is the spinkick - the knee tends to trade, and can't kill stuff instantly (without a handy pit) anyway. Don't overlook just punching/kicking the enemy into paralysis and beating the shit out of them with grapples, either - or chucking them into a pit! FC is significantly better-balanced than the NES ver, where the knee is truly overpowering.

>Double Dragon II FC Hard vs NES Hard (technically "Difficult" and "Supreme Master"):

The Virgin NES

Spoiler

THE CHAD FC

Spoiler

>Basically, FC Hard owns NES Hard on both intensity and moveset balance, so play that if possible. It's even user-friendlier too! Continues enabled by default, Mission 6's vanishing platforms adjust for difficulty level, and speaking of that, you can see the whole game whatever the difficulty - no silly cutoffs.

[__SKYe]

Ah, Mission 4 FC Hard O'Hara. He's a real prick! Offhand, I suspect the only way to guarantee a no-hit fight is to pre-emptively whack your head on the ceiling (contrary to the menacing spikes and obvious head trauma, it's totally harmless), then own him with a recovering uppercut. Once you've floored him he's as good as dead, provided you know your zoning and get in nice and close.

In that replay, I was trying not to abuse the roof too much, so I just walk up on him and chance my luck. FC Hard enemy aggression is off the fucking charts (the NES equivalent, "Supreme Master," is only Normal here and utterly wimpy by comparison), so I get knocked down - but it's a calculated gamble, since I've got plenty of HP and it gets me nearer to that critical point-blank zone; then it's all over for our Ahnuld-looking pal.

It may not have been perfect, but it shows how to deal with him after he spawns, since that's pretty much the situation every player will encounter. Even then, that takes a good timing on those specials to knock him down, and I can see someone not used to perform then being continuously getting knocked down by him.

Overall this is the most unfair section in the entire game (if I can call it that) in that it forces you to use a single method of approaching enemies (ground only) whilst having very brutal enemies at range.
Though it is the only such section, on Hard it is and absolute chokepoint, perhaps the toughest up until the final level with the 2 bosses in a row.

> Ah yes, perhaps my favourite publication of old Dr. Biruford's! "On The Zoning Mechanics of Famicom Double Dragon," or "L2P FC DOUBLE DRAGON YOU FUCKIN GODLESS NOOBS" Ya, you don't need to spam the jumpkick at all. It's more of a mobility tool for getting in close, if anything.

Yeah, in DD1 especially, zoning makes the game that much more fun to play -- until you get used to the particular spacing you should have with each enemy type, it all seems rather random (where the classic compaint that you'll always trade hits with enemyes comes from, I guess ).

[BIL]

DD2 Mission 4 corridor is definitely in painful territory - other than straight-up retreat, which the toughest enemies will either pincer or out-range, your only evasive maneuver is smashing your character's head into a spiky ceiling and exploiting the recovery. Technically painless, yet stylistically agonising. And as usual with Technos beaters, no mid-scene HP restores, so those bruises ain't fading until the last body hits the floor! (did any of their beaters have health items? Other than the Downtown Nekketsus, and even there you had to buy them from shops, instead of finding roast chickens and steaks in random oil drums and dumpsters)

It's emblematic of the game as a whole I think (specifically FC Hard, which is its ideal state imo). Mechanically and aesthetically visceral, and even with flawless execution you might take a nasty hit or two (or three), but also eminently masterable. Basically, get those Right Arms locked down hard, then you'll have a nice HP buffer for the remainder of the single-plane antics (which you may not even end up needing).

[__SKYe]

(did any of their beaters have health items? Other than the Downtown Nekketsus, and even there you had to buy them from shops, instead of finding roast chickens and steaks in random oil drums and dumpsters)

From the games I've played, I don't think so. Funny, as it is pretty unusual for the genre. Makes me think if Final Fight was the first game to implement such mechanic, or at least popularize it.

It's emblematic of the game as a whole I think (specifically FC Hard, which is its ideal state imo). Mechanically and aesthetically visceral, and even with flawless execution you might take a nasty hit or two (or three), but also eminently masterable. Basically, get those Right Arms locked down hard, then you'll have a nice HP buffer for the remainder of the single-plane antics (which you may not even end up needing).

I'm not certain about Hard mode, but at least in Normal mode you also have a pretty large HP bar (or rather, most enemies do low damage) than even DD1, the most danger coming from bosses and the twin ninjas (both on the pre-helicopter stage and the last one). DD2's Normal mode is a fine introduction to Technos' style of beat-em-ups -- easier than other games in the series, contains perhaps the most varied level design as well (some levels with depth, others strict 2D, the no-jump section and a fair bit of platforming) and with a fairly nice control system (certainly more polished than DD1's, despite the front/back type of controls).
I still prefer Mighty Final Fight, though.

[BIL]

If MFF had just one more enemy onscreen, I think I'd rate it over DD2 for FC beltscrolling - it certainly has the smoothest mechanics and performance I've seen on the platform. It also has no input drops that I'm aware of, where sadly Technos fell afoul of a bit in DD2 (sliding stop after walk will eat buttons; turning and busting out a kick too quickly will net you only a whiffing punch and a prompt stab in the back. Neither is particularly easy to trigger - it's most definitely not something critically flawed like Holy Diver - but it's always a shame to discover stress cracks in an otherwise superlative action game.

Where DD2 clinches it for me is the sheer "rock in a sock" venom of its 2-man teams, and the tight level designs it tends to deploy them in - when I first revisited it years ago I thought "this is going to be embarrassing" but at the controls, I genuinely forget about the limit. Feels like there's a gigantic target on your back from start to finish.

That and as smooth as MFF handles, I kinda like the coarser, almost crude yet technique-intensive style Technos displayed in FC DD1-3. DD2 being the likely peak, but I'm a big fan of that DD1 Abobo point-blanking too. As goofy and frankly busted as it is that your finishing jump roundhouse can fire at the "wrong" moment if you're in front of a door, leaving you completely screwed, I get an uncanny satisfaction connecting it and delivering a truckload of pain - kills Williams and Ropers dead.

(Mighty FF's mechanical excellence is also why I get a bit tetchy at that clownish Amiga FF port with its infamous MY FAVE BANDS content... the craftsmanship of Mighty FF, now those are guys I'm happy to hear talk of their favourite bands. What do skilled artists and craftsmen enjoy? I already know what random jobber coder likes - he's mad for the 90s rave sound like me and every other asshole! God damn, even the Micronics guys knew to keep their craven jobber mugs out of the spotlight. As far as I know anyway! Probably figured nerd would hunt 'em down later for all those shit ports of great games!)

[__SKYe]

If MFF had just one more enemy onscreen, I think I'd rate it over DD2 for FC beltscrolling

It's a shame isn't it? Despite the general agressiveness of its enemies, the fast movement of your characters and their diverse movesets make the game pretty easy.

Where DD2 clinches it for me is the sheer "rock in a sock" venom of its 2-man teams, and the tight level designs it tends to deploy them in - when I first revisited it years ago I thought "this is going to be embarrassing" but at the controls, I genuinely forget about the limit. Feels like there's a gigantic target on your back from start to finish.

Despite how much I like MFF, I have to agree that Technos had the better approach to beat-em-ups on the Famicom. Whereas Capcom tried (and beautifully & skillfully managed) to adapt the big depth (literally, a wide z-plane) and gameplay of the arcade game, Technos revised their series to better fit the platform (with pure 2D section and tighter level design, as you said), resulting in the better game(s) overall (considering controls, mechanics, enemy AI, level design, etc).

(Mighty FF's mechanical excellence is also why I get a bit tetchy at that clownish Amiga FF port with its infamous MY FAVE BANDS content... the craftsmanship of Mighty FF, now those are guys I'm happy to hear talk of their favourite bands. What do skilled artists and craftsmen enjoy? I already know what random jobber coder likes - he's mad for the 90s rave sound like me and every other asshole! God damn, even the Micronics guys knew to keep their craven jobber mugs out of the spotlight. As far as I know anyway! Probably figured nerd would hunt 'em down later for all those shit ports of great games!)

Haha, agreed. If you don't have the skills, you don't have the right to either ramble or brag. But still, his mugging story was pretty amusing.

[Sumez]

Checked out the Amiga Final Fight dev message again.... whoa, this guy has a great taste in music!

[Steamflogger Boss]

Of course, pretty much all of the 16-bit Castlevanias are great

I was itching to post something along these lines when I started reading the discussion. You really can't go wrong!

[BIL]

Haha, agreed. If you don't have the skills, you don't have the right to either ramble or brag. But still, his mugging story was pretty amusing.

Yeah, have to admit if that'd been Yuzo Koshiro writing about getting mugged on his way back from THA RAVE CLUB, we'd all be saying what a remarkable bit of life imitating art it was.

Just back home now and re-watching my DD2 XTREEM Master replay - I notice I actually tagged M4's O'Hara with that first punch, but since the RNG rolled his shoulder ram (hard knockdown), I got floored in the trade. I remember now - if you're really lucky it's possible he'll try his backhand chop, which your combo can beat. As always, once he goes down he's dead meat. So it's not a guaranteed knockdown situation per se.

In the replay, after being knocked down I screwed the uppercut timing (embarassing! it's loose enough you can leisurely mash [P] and generally get it, unlike the knee - don't ever try mashing that, you'll be miserable and brutalised), and he blasts me with another ram. Third time I get the uppercut, flooring us both (the ram's a hard knockdown, but then so's the uppercut), and he's brown fuckin bread.

Difficulty level's a big factor here too. On FC Hard, if you're in striking range, the enemy will attack relentlessly until one of you is dead, or you escape. So on FC Normal/NES Hard, it's also entirely possible he simply won't react before your punch connects.

Basically it's still a brutal alleyway car-crash of a fight, but it's not quite as merciless as I'd recalled. ;3

Speaking of brown bread, it kinda drives me nuts that DD2 never has you fight its strongmen enemies two at a time like DD1! :O The helicopter Bobos would RAWK! And it'd stop the player from just beating the shit out of 'em once they hit the floor. You gotta earn that privilege versus DD1's Bobo tag-teams. HERE COME THE PAIN (man I hated that fight as a kid - spamming jumpkicks for what seemed like hours. Naw! Use your kung fu, BIRRY-SAN! Make them eat through straw, and shit in bag! )

Totally offhand, I'd guess they couldn't get two players and two giants onscreen without some nasty performance hit. One of those small but vital edges that keeps DD1 competitive with its vastly more technical sequel, along with its brutal mounted punch kills, meddlers that'll break up both those and your standing grapples, and its mortally dangerous knives and TNT (so much more satisfying to disarm the wielder and promptly chuck it back at them, or their buddy).

By the way, in honour of the DD series' Hokuto no Ken inspirations, please think of this cavern showdown in which our hero slips everything his mighty foe can throw at him, before annihilating him in one decisive attack as my tribute to this beloved Kenshiroism. Yeah I know I took a few hits, but the main thing is he couldn't knock me down, and then I put his lousy ass clean through the drywall into the laundromat next door! Dats gotta hoit! More importantly, BoBoPhobes should pay attention to not only my showboating but also my spacing! Remember, BIRRY-SAN! If you getting hit... your praying rike shit! (uh, hit outside of deliberate gambles, anyway! those are addictive! Jimmy excepted. You can either shut him down with KKE, or slug it out and try to make it 80/20 in your favour, in my experience anyway. I was experimenting with PKKK on his wakeup, if I remember, but it's been like a year now)

(I know Shink HNK wasn't the greatest but yo, that fatal justice KO gives me a chub. )

PLEASE LET ME APPEAL TO MY GOD FOR FORGIVENESS!!!
THERE IS NO GOD WILLING TO SAVE YOU
AIEEEEEEEEE!!!
HOOWAAA-TAAAAAAAAA! *MEAT BLIMP EXPLOSION*

(also paid tribute here in BDOOM! )

[FinalBaton]

lol. love how you're standing on top of poor green Abobo with no retribution from the powerless bugger,
good Hokuto no Ken reference too

[mycophobia]

Surprise Attack's biggest flaw: Quiz bonus sections. amusing at first but now that I know basically every answer I dread it after I beat each boss. just lemme get back to shooting guys! nothing like Shinobi and Shadow Dancer's quick, fun bonus stages.

[Vanguard]

I've been playing Twinkle Tale lately.

Button mashing Twinkle Tale allows for a higher rate of fire than what you get from the game's built-in autofire, so I wanted to see if I could come up with a good external autofire setup for playing S. Hard mode. Based on my testing, I believe some of the information I posted earlier here is incorrect. I tried clearing the game to unlock it, but even a Hard mode 1cc didn't do anything. The English fan translation that can be found here unlocks S. Hard, so I tried that. I couldn't tell any difference between Hard and S. Hard modes, though. It's possible that the difference is very subtle, but I think it's more likely that S. Hard is a dummied out option.

That romhacking.net page is my original source on how to unlock S. Hard and what S. Hard changes, though if you read the hack's readme, the author also believes S. Hard is probably nonfunctional.

Anyway, if you do want to play Hard mode and don't want to endure weakened shots, I've found 5 hz autofire to be a good solution because it makes up for the health increase without breaking the game, and it's a speed well within human limitations. The higher rate of fire makes the star shotgun extremely powerful in point blank range, which is cool. But there's not much point in playing a difficulty option that does nothing but increase enemy health if you're just going to cancel out the health increase.

[BIL]

Thanks for the update. Bit of a shame about S.Hard - although it's not too big a deal, with Twinkle Tale doing pretty well on defaults anyway.

I find enemy HP buffs interesting in one specific context: when the game has a sensibly low autofire ceiling, and it'll cause them to survive long enough to get more attacks out / encroach on your space / generally shake things up. If it just makes speedkills more mashy, or encourages autofire use, it's a bit pointless as you say.

[Sumez]

Gave DD2FC another try yesterday, played it through with whatever continues that might take. Utilizing the knee attack does make the game more interesting, but at the same time, the precise timing is pretty annoying to me, combined with the trouble of pushing both buttons at the same time. The cyclone kick is giving me the same issues. It's hard enough to do outside of danger, but when it's critical to nail either of those attacks, getting the correct timing gets even more cumbersome.
I'd love to appreciate the game, but I really don't enjoy having to worry so much about fighting with the controls, rather than just the opponents in the game

I might just give up on this one. But I'll try playing it through with the NES Advantage first, simply for the ease of pushing buttons simultaneously. Are you guys playing it with a regular NES controller?


I also just played through Arumana no Kiseki, and despite its horrible awkwardness and shitty coding, I think I might actually really like this one. Once you get a feeling for the mechanics, it actually gets really interesting. I wouldn't mind a more tightly condensed, action focused version of the game's concept - but I guess that's probably what roc'n'rope is? :3

[BIL]

I might just give up on this one. But I'll try playing it through with the NES Advantage first, simply for the ease of pushing buttons simultaneously. Are you guys playing it with a regular NES controller?

Just a NES pad or, more frequently since I'm living abroad without consoles, that HORI Switch USB controller with the removable dpad (works on PCs too). Hated that one's dpad at first, but it really grew on me after a while...

I'd love to try DD2FC on real hardware with a stick, definitely. Provided the buttons were easy-activating, I imagine it'd be nice having a finger on each. Never feels right to me doing that with a gamepad. One of those far-off dreams, for now.

The spinkick's timing is pretty loose compared to the knee's, so yeah, it might not be the game for you in that case. Do note though, you can do pretty well with just the basic moves and the uppercut. In my replay the last boss would've had a good shot at killing me, if I didn't know how to stick him with the standard kick. Try jumping "onto" an enemy to prime the uppercut, hitting [punch] on landing - it'll nail them every time. Besides doing a chunk of damage, once they're knocked down, you're free to stuff their wakeup with combos and grapples.

The knee's stricture is a bit ridiculous - it was one of the things Muneki Ebinuma specifically addressed with DD Advance. There you just hit A+B to crouch, then A to launch it. It took me a good month or so to get really comfortable with DD2FC's timing before recording my replay, and even then I'm still a bit shaky on "revenge knees" (launching from a knockdown), particularly in Mission 6. The snap from lying flat to crouching irks me a bit. I actually find chaining them together like this easier, since the lead-in isn't as abrupt (and once I've nailed one, repeating the rhythm is similarly better-prefaced).

Easy buttons are must, too. I was practicing on a random near-dead USB pad whose buttons had reached that awful "pseudo touchscreen" stage, but it actually helped my knee timing. Moved onto a fresh one with unused buttons, and had to relearn the timing all over again!

All the same, I do kinda enjoy having this elusive killer move in there... adds a bit of kung-fu mystique. FC Hard makes it far less of a magic bullet, too. It can't kill anything in one shot, and enemy reaction speed frequently has it whiff or trade without careful setting up (basically knocking 'em down, then launching a split-second before wakeup so you beat their retaliation). Often it's much less hassle to go with the basic moves and the other two special attacks, both of which do 75% of the damage with far easier execution and connection. If they're on a ladder or an upper ledge, preferably near a pit, that's where it makes sense to bust it out.

[__SKYe]

I might just give up on this one. But I'll try playing it through with the NES Advantage first, simply for the ease of pushing buttons simultaneously. Are you guys playing it with a regular NES controller?

I play with a PSOne DualShock. Mapping A and B, to X and Square respectively, makes is much more confortable to position the thumb over both buttons.

The knee is indeed pretty damn hard to trigger, but you don't really need it to beat the game -- it's more of an extra, for me at least.
Have you been using the uppercut? It is infinitely easier to perform and is pretty powerful as well anyway.

The cyclone kick is giving me the same issues. It's hard enough to do outside of danger, but when it's critical to nail either of those attacks, getting the correct timing gets even more cumbersome.

I find that the trick to perform the spin kick consistently, is to press the button slightly before the apex of the jump, paying more attention to the timing which I press it after a jump, rather than reacting to visual feedback (anytime I try to time the spinkick by looking at the jumping sprite, it seldom works).
For the uppercut, you should press the button just as you are landing (similar thing -- press the button slightly before the character actually ducks). Note that you have to press the attack button corresponding to the direction you're facing, otherwise it won't come out (if facing left press B, otherwise press A). You can press the opposite direction during a jump to face the other way, though (the jump movement is fixed but the facing direction is not). Useful when you jump over an enemy and need to be facing the opposite direction to perform an uppercut on them.

[Vanguard]

Here's my Twinkle Tale hard 1cc replay. Despite moderate button mashing, it's more than 6 minutes longer than my normal difficulty video.

Thanks for the update. Bit of a shame about S.Hard - although it's not too big a deal, with Twinkle Tale doing pretty well on defaults anyway.

I find enemy HP buffs interesting in one specific context: when the game has a sensibly low autofire ceiling, and it'll cause them to survive long enough to get more attacks out / encroach on your space / generally shake things up. If it just makes speedkills more mashy, or encourages autofire use, it's a bit pointless as you say.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, Twinkle Tale is great. Its only competition for my #1 Mega Drive/Genesis game is Castlevania Bloodlines.

Agreed on raising enemy hp. If you calculate the player's damage such that on normal mode you just barely do enough damage to kill enemies before they shoot, and on hard mode just a sliver less than enough to kill before they shoot, you can create a lot more danger with minimal slowdown. In practice that almost never happens, and you could get similar or better results by making enemies start shooting earlier or by spawning a few more of them. Another good idea is to increase hp for common enemies, but not bosses, as in SFC Kiki Kaikai.

[BrianC]

I might just give up on this one. But I'll try playing it through with the NES Advantage first, simply for the ease of pushing buttons simultaneously. Are you guys playing it with a regular NES controller?

I actually found it easier to press both buttons simultaneously on the standard NES pad since there is a slight gap between the buttons on the Advantage.

[Jonny2x4]

I'd love to try DD2FC on real hardware with a stick, definitely. Provided the buttons were easy-activating, I imagine it'd be nice having a finger on each. Never feels right to me doing that with a gamepad. One of those far-off dreams, for now.

I used to play DD2FC and DD3FC a lot on my NES with a converter back when the console was still working. I always regret not picking up DD1FC back when it was relatively cheap. I kinda dismissed it at the time for being almost identical to the NES version, but the manual has some unique artwork of Billy and Jimmy that I've never seen printed anywhere else and all the images I've found online are just photographs. Such a shame Masao Shiroto (the apparent illustrator) has passed away.

[kitten]

sorry for droppin' off outta nowhere, y'all, been kinda busy and/or depressed the last few months. did do several recordings a few days ago, so i figured i'd quickly post 'em in here. hope everyone's doing well! i'm just dropping in for a quick post and then back out again, but i figured i'd drop these latest videos off. i'll try to stick around for some brief discussion on 'em if anyone wants to mention anything. each one is complete with a relatively lengthy review in the description, for those curious on my takes!

captain saver - nomiss clear - a really expensive and kinda/sorta obscure natsume action game. it's called power blade 2 in the states and is - as the US name implies - a sequel to power blade while also being a spiritual successor to power blazer. kind of a middle ground between the two of those games - it's rigid & rockman-like (perhaps more like the GB games than the NES games) in its deliberate pacing like power blazer, but it keeps a lot of power-ups from power blade. my play is probably most on point in this one out of the 3 recordings and the most fun to watch.

batman returns (nes) - nomiss clear - some late life konami goodness! highly different from the final fight-esque snes game and much more in line with feeling almost like a ninja turtles series entry. quirky methods of attack and a couple fun bonus stages with a killer soundtrack. if you like konami's tmnt games, i feel like this is a must play.

zen: intergalactic ninja - nomiss clear on default - this is konami's second-to-last game for the hardware (proceeded only by the somewhat rare NES version of tournament fighters) and is a definite technical powerhouse. another killer soundtrack, here, but the play is kind of all over the place. it's short, tightly paced, and filled with variety, however. i tend to feel as if this game is a tad maligned but i found it pretty decent, even kinda good - almost like a konami take on battletoads, minus the constant need for rote memorization.

i also played konami's rollergames for the nes, a semi-late title by them based on some tv show i'd never heard of that... seemed to kinda compete in the american gladiators vein of reality sports shows? i never hear anyone talk about this game and it is piss cheap. i think i got it for $4 shipped on eBay. it's got definite technical competency and had the founder of treasure work on it, so i feel like it's strange how obscure this felt, to me. most of the stages are free-scrolling on roller skates through linear stages with transition into beat 'em up bits, and there's also a couple of auto-scrolling horizontal segments where you survive hazard onslaughts. it's piss mean, especially in its later levels, so i'm not sure i'll bother with a 1cc, but it was a very interesting curiosity.

continuing in theme of late-life and semi-forgotten konami stuff, i also picked up monster in my pocket and played a couple of minutes, today. seems neat. i don't hear it talked about much, but rollergames is the only one i seriously never see talked about.

- - - - -

bil, what the heck was that mega drive game where there's - i think - vertical scrolling and arkanoid-like mechanics? you once recommended it and i've forgotten the name. been driving me nuts, today.

[BrianC]

bil, what the heck was that mega drive game where there's - i think - vertical scrolling and arkanoid-like mechanics? you once recommended it and i've forgotten the name. been driving me nuts, today.

Devilish/Bad Omen?

[__SKYe]

i also played konami's rollergames for the nes

One the games I owned back in the day -- had a great time with it, though I never cleared it (seldom did back in then).
It has been a while since I last played it, and it is indeed a little unconventional (I always picked the girl, because it was easier to clear the jumps with her ) but it was a pretty fun game.
Loved the amusing gang-like intro for each zone/section, especially the granny in one of them.

This granny:

Spoiler

Man, I really should play it again sometime soon.

[kitten]

yeah, that's it! thanks, brian. man, there's a game gear version of that, too, i wonder if it's any good.

does anyone have a link to bil's giant mega drive recommendation post in the MD thread? i could use that on handy and am not sure how to grab it quickly on search.

This granny:

Spoiler

um, excuse me, that is christopher walken

[WelshMegalodon]

Always good to see you come by, kitten.

Here you go.

[BIL]

Fuck, ninja'd.