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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:33 am 



Joined: 28 Jul 2014
Posts: 3
ewilly wrote:
First i calibrated my tv using the built in test patterns on xbox1.
I double checked using test patterns on youtube for brighness, contrast, and color clipping. I triple checked with thx optimizer. The xbox1 calibration seemed to be very accurate.

This method is highly inaccurate. Your eyes constantly adapt to ambient lightning and color so your perception of TV image would change dramatically every time.
You should use calibrator or colorimeter in that case. You'll be amazed by the difference.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:06 am 


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ballyalley wrote:
How can I make it so that Red, Green and Blue are adjustable in the menu?


They are only adjustable when using RGB inputs


Last edited by Kez on Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:00 pm 


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Location: DFW area, Texas
ballyalley wrote:
Hi, I'm hoping this is an okay place to post a Framemeister question (I followed a link from the Framemeister Wikipedia page).

I just recently got a Framemeister XRGB-Mini. I'm happy with it so far. On various game systems the colors are off and I'll like to adjust them, but I can't seem to do it. My current setup is an Atari 130XE home computer hooked up via composite to the Framemeister. I am using a simple color bar generator program to judge how to make the adjustments. This program works great on a CRT TV when I want to adjust a TVs settings. The colors from the Atari are WAY off (greens are blues, purples are browns, other colors are just plain wrong) and the picture is too dark. How do I make color adjustments?

First off, my firmware version is 2.03a. My PCB version is 1.3. Here's how I'm trying to adjust the colors:

1) Press Menu
2) Select Color_Set
3) Choices here are Brightness, Gamma, Hue, Saturation, Red, Green, Blue and Sharpness. I can adjust everything here but Red, Green and Blue. I can select those three choices, but the adjustments are gray-out.

How can I make it so that Red, Green and Blue are adjustable in the menu?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Adam


Since you're using composite, you won't have access to RGB adjustments. You'll need to try the "HUE" option to see if you can swing the colors into proper alignment. It should be noted that Hue had been pretty well centered on the FM at the factory default setting, so it's strange for your colors to be so far off hue like that.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:16 am 



Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 11
[/quotoe]
This method is highly inaccurate. Your eyes constantly adapt to ambient lightning and color so your perception of TV image would change dramatically every time.
You should use calibrator or colorimeter in that case. You'll be amazed by the difference.[/quote]

Color wise id have to agree with you, as for brightness and contrast i think they are spot on. A 2.2 gamma proved to be impossible which i fault the tv for. But while looking at gamma patterns the tv and frameister were in sync and yielded the same result 1.95 approx . If the tv itself could output 2.2 i would expect the frameister to pass that right through. My goal like i said is to make the frameister yield nearly the same as what the tv displays. Ill have to look into a colorimeter. Thats a good idea, and there is an av/home stereo mom and pop shop by my house.

My idea in these fullscreen profiles is that 1080p tvs are on the way out. Until an upscaler that can handle 4k is released we are going to have to deal with interpolation and non native outputs. Might as well get the full screen. How 480p vs 1080p is handled by new 4ks is still up in the air as im still setting money aside for a tv still. But im guessing these might not look all that different from the 1080p profiles


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:13 am 



Joined: 25 May 2017
Posts: 33
Is anybody aware of any available 3D printed wall brackets for the framemeister?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:34 pm 


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Posts: 9
FirebrandX, do you plan to work on a Wii profile for Framemeister? I've got mine hooked up to the D-Terminal w/ component cables, but man softness/blur is real.....It's hard for me to judge picture quality settings as I'm no artifacts expert still. Need some expertise help here.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:45 pm 


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If you output 480p from your Wii, then you're better off not using the FM, but going into your TV directly or using a straight YUV to HDMI converter. 480i is great through the Wii though.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:29 pm 


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From what I've seen of component wii, it's considerably more blurry than Gamecube component.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:28 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2017
Posts: 40
I know my Coleco question didn't get an answer on the last page so I assume no one has made a profile for it. Doing some preliminary research it looks like the output resolution is the same as the master system's, and it seems like they share a fair amount of similar hardware pieces. If I'm going to make one on my own, do you guys think it would make sense to use FirebrandX's master system one as maybe a starting point to begin with?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:48 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
If you output 480p from your Wii, then you're better off not using the FM, but going into your TV directly or using a straight YUV to HDMI converter. 480i is great through the Wii though.


FBX wrote:
From what I've seen of component wii, it's considerably more blurry than Gamecube component.


Thanks for the feedback. I'm moving the Wii to my living room as my tv has component connections there.

Another question:

Does the GameCube itself have have better picture quality than the Wii's built-in GC hardware?

My Wii can play GC games and that's what I've been using. I want to make sure I'm not missing out on better picture.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:52 pm 


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pezmed wrote:

My Wii can play GC games and that's what I've been using. I want to make sure I'm not missing out on better picture.


There's a good comparison video here to give an idea of the crap picture quality of the Wii:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhr1o1S1HVA
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:21 pm 



Joined: 08 Apr 2016
Posts: 79
Location: Yorktown, VA
The GameCube definitely has better component video output than the Wii, but the price of the component cables is beyond ridiculous. I know that most recommend connecting the Wii directly to a TV, but I really like what the Framemeister does for 240p virtual console and 480i GameCube games. It's the same deal for me with the PS2 as I use it for PS1 games (and the majority of PS2 games are only 480i).


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:00 pm 



Joined: 05 Mar 2017
Posts: 316
Location: Woodinville, WA
Thanks for sharing that video. The differences he documented between component and GCVideoX roughly match what I observed with the Eon GCHD.

Given the production quality of the video, I'm annoyed he didn't track down a PAL GameCube to do a definitive comparison including RGB. I know he made reference to its cost, but come on, inquiring minds want to know. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:04 am 


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Location: Italy
strygo wrote:
Given the production quality of the video, I'm annoyed he didn't track down a PAL GameCube to do a definitive comparison including RGB. I know he made reference to its cost, but come on, inquiring minds want to know. :lol:

I did test RGB vs. Component on a GC with GBA games (via GBI) a few months ago. If I remember correctly Component is a tiny tiny bit sharper. I could look for my old captures or take new ones if you'd like, but I'm sure the difference would be unnoticeable while gaming, especially on a CRT with scanlines.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:40 pm 



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Posts: 316
Location: Woodinville, WA
Nah, it is fine. I just found his video so comprehensive and otherwise very well done that it felt like it deserved the full treatment.

I’ve reviewed the comparison screenshots on RetroRGB, and to be honest, I can’t make heads or tails of them.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 am 



Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 11
Took your guys advice and used a colorimeter for each output. Used the xb360 through hdmi as a baseline. Used thx optimizer for color capture on red, green, and blue. For rgb i used wheels on thps3. each sample was taken 3 times, averaged, and then rounded to the nearest 5. Here were the results:

Xb360 hdmi baseline:
Red 240,55,20
Green 0,175,10
Blue 75,0,255


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:45 am 



Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 11
Xb360 componet:
Red 240,50 (-5),20
Green 0,175,10
Blue 80 (+5),0,250 (-5)

Xb360 composite:
Red 240,55,15 (-5)
Green 0,170 (-5),0 (-10)
Blue 80 (+5),5 (+5),250 (-5)


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:48 am 



Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 11
Ps2 svideo:
Red 245 (+5),60 (+5),20
Green 0,175,5 (-5)
Blue 80 (+5),0,255

Ps2 Rgbv
Red 245 (+5),55,15
Green 0,165 (-10),30
Blue 80 (+5),0,245 (-10)

These were as close as i could get them. My previous settings to make the frameister as transparent to the tv as possible are


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:49 am 



Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 11
below. Corrections are in parenthesis. All other color settings are default

Componet
Brightness:27 "26"
Gamma:0
Saturation:25 "23"
A/d level:131

Rgb
Brightness:26
Gamma:0
A/d level: 128


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:50 am 



Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 11
Svideo
Brightness:26
Gamma:0
Saturation: "30"
A/d level:128

Composite
Brightness:26
Gamma:0
Saturation: "30"
A/d level:128

Very sorry about posting so many times staight.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:51 am 



Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 11
But the submit button keeps disappearing after so many characters. Very annoying, and i typed and worked on this way to long and hard to rewrite on paper and retype on a laptop.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:56 pm 


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forgive me if i've already asked, but: i'm using the dreamcast profile (i believe it's an older one from firebrandx) and on my panny plasma, there's flickering, especially seen on white screens. tested the cables on another set without the XRGB & it's absent, which setting is most likely to cause this?

gonna try other profiles & see if i can eliminate it.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:03 pm 


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@ ewilly, just a heads up for S-video sources, you can improve clarity and detail by going into the Video_Set menu and using manual filtering set to 18 or 19. These settings don't look good for composite video, but they really help for S-video.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:22 am 


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Posts: 53
Firebrand, I seem to be having some confusion with the OG XBox profiles. I'm running my XBox straight into the Framemeister via component and when I load your widescreen XBox profile, I get a black window around the entire picture, top/bottom and left/right, like it doesn't fully fill my 16:9 TV screen. I've got my XBox set to widescreen and all of the high def resolutions checked off. I also use the load all option when loading the profile. I'm assuming my TV's picture mode should be left at 1:1 but that leaves me with the image windowed. Also, using any other picture mode in my TV obviously doesn't give me the correct display either. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong or maybe what I'm misunderstanding about this profile.

EDIT: Seems my Gamecube profiles got messed up too. I load the F-Zero widescreen profile from the load all and it loads zoomed in like, 200% and with scanlines... wtf. I'm assuming I just need to format my SD card and put all of the profiles back on it? I don't get why this would all of a sudden go all goofy like this.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:00 pm 



Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 11
I will definately try that with svideo. I actually bought an ossc. I instanly feel in love with it. My sharp aquos takes every signal the ossc throws at it including snes, line triple, 960p, line quintouple, 480i over hdmi. The only use i have now for the frameister is n64 svideo and nes composite. Ive thought about a dvdo edge to future proof the ossc compatability if i was to purchase a new tv. But honestly i really would like to find a way to inject svid and composite into the ossc. I just havent found a transcoder with great reviews. Nor do i know what would be best to transcode to. Vga rgb or componet. Im wondering also if i can be done passively through vga without external power. Im still looking into my options.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:42 pm 


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ewilly wrote:
i really would like to find a way to inject svid and composite into the ossc.


Both the NES and N64 have excellent RGB mods available - that would provide far superior results.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:05 pm 



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 6
No more news about XRGB Products
Any news about a new Framemeister?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:38 pm 


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Posts: 658
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kdesktop wrote:
No more news about XRGB Products
Any news about a new Framemeister?


The MLG guys said they talked with somebody close to the Framemeister team, take away was that a new Framemeister probably wouldn't come out anytime soon (if at all) as the parent company doesn't really want to be in the video scaler business anymore because of low margins. for right now, projects like the OSSC + New console HDMI modifications are the future of videogame digitization (along with the 4K television revolution pushing some advancements in video scaler technology).


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:09 pm 


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Well the Mini took a really hard blow with the OSSC, so that's kind of understandable. I can't imagine Micomsoft improve significantly on the concept and challenge that competition without spending tons of time and money on the project.

Blair wrote:
(along with the 4K television revolution pushing some advancements in video scaler technology).

Uh? that though...it doesn't look like a revolution to me and rather holding back advancements for scaling. I mean ok maybe there's some great stuff happening for the high-end AV niche, but for the rest TV/monitors and external scalers (at least those we can afford) it's totally lame and hasn't been good news for us retrogamers.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:05 pm 


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Location: America
you're right, revolution probably wasn't the right word to use. more like "forced adoption" but either way, more people are going have to think about video scaling than ever before (especially if this year's CES was an indication). we probably won't be seeing dedicated scaling boxes in the normal consumer/Pro-sumer spaces anymore. it's all going to boil down to television/monitor, receivers (although these might lose scaling functionality eventually) and graphics cards (plus some game consoles).

perhaps at some point we could see somebody designing a video input PCI-express card or a dongle that has a similar function to the OSSC or frameMeister but makes use of the processing/scaling capabilities of modern-day GPU's and APU's to do most of the heavy lifting. (maybe that's how we could get around the power/cost limit of modern day FPGAs) as I recall there was a software project a little while ago attempting to use video capture cards and software scaling to do something very similar for video games, but I haven't heard anything about it in over a year.


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