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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:37 am 


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Got the no death on Mystic Warriors again and was recording this time!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9uu9fCcrFs
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:18 am 


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Fantastic!
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:22 am 


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Will enjoy watching that when I've got the chance to crank the volume! The speech samples demand it. ^_~ (as does that OST!)
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:06 am 


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Nice! I can watch that leotard azzzz all day! Know what I'll be doing at work tomorrow 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:18 pm 


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This and the MD/Gen thread revitalized my dormant adoration for all things scrolling action, so I went on back down the road to good ol' Ninja Gaiden. Probably the first time I've taken it serious, and hey, with the right mindset and some knowledge under my belt it all went pretty well for a short practice session. I know it's chump change, but I'm a lazy sumbitch in need of inspiration that said I was going to do this eons ago!

Blew through all the bosses (sans Jaq) and generally didn't have too rough of a time with most of the stages. My only enemy has always been myself, and a lot of the discussion and vids paired with a sound mind certainly helped. Preaching to the choir here, but gawd, it controls so tight that every hit I take still feels right and I learn from the mistake. Like most, 6-2 used to be the stopping point for my casual runs and I think I got it about down last night. Need to spend some more time with those dive-bombing shuriken chuckers; that part probably gave me the most trouble in death/losing health, but I think due in part that I kept trying to avoid item use to get a better understanding of what I need to do. Getting ahead of myself probably, but having fun with it! GRANNY TOLL ROAD in 6-2 used to be the game over for me, but again, lack of serious understanding of enemies/respawn. Ain't no thang, now. And ha, so this is what 6-3 looks like! :mrgreen:

Papa Ryu I took down in one try, but Jaq's got me stuck. I save stated him and farted around for a good chunk of time, only beating him once. And again, the whole time I knew it was just my impatience getting the best of me. Having a rough time knowing when to attack, as I'm usually getting hit in the process. Dodging fireballs I'd say gets a pass, but dunno what my problem is with getting good shots on him without taking a hit myself. I think I've got a good idea, especially after watching this thread's tactics, so I'm thinking my bad 'tude got the best of me in the end and I lost my patience and did too many running jumps towards him instead of stationary. The one time I did beat him I took down THE DEMON on my first try as well, so it's pretty much just Jaq I've got to worry about now before I take a proper swing. What's his actual hitbox? I see lots of occasional misses on him in videos, so I'm not sure I'm always aiming for the right spot maybe.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:48 pm 


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drauch wrote:
Having a rough time knowing when to attack, as I'm usually getting hit in the process.

Hitting him when he's moving away from you (instead of towards you) is best. I suggest to mainly wait for that opportunity to arise.
Image

You can also hit him safely when he's moving towards you but only when you catch him near the corners (meaning that during the early part of your forward jump motion, Jacquio is moving away from you before changing direction. This ensures you won't bump into him). For this to work you need to time it as such : launch forward, then go neutral right before the max height of your jump and slash him after the max height of your jump(while falling down). You can see it in 38:12 to 38:16 of my vid
Image

Don't do a pure neutral jump attack (waiting for him on a pillar and neutral jump and attack). He will clip you every time.

The key is patience. You gotta wait for the opportunities to arise. Sometimes, up to 10 seconds will pass between hits. Or even a bit more. But that's okay. There's plenty of time to dispatch him with nothing but safe hits.

NINJA GRANDMASTER RULE #2 : IN THE HEART OF THE STORM, EXHIBIT LEGENDARY CALM :P
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Last edited by FinalBaton on Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:17 pm 


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Ah I see, I see. A great help, thanks! My impatience and method of attack is definitely at fault here. Excited to give him another go this weekend. In the meantime I'll be meditating the legendary calm!


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:20 pm 


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:mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:51 pm 


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Welcome to the army, drauch. You'll be in the task force any minute now!

Btw can anyone confirm if Arkista's Ring is an NMK game? Everywhere seem to credit "American Sammy" as the developers, but almost all of their NES releases were developed by NMK, and this definitely feels like one for better and worse.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:18 pm 


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Thanks, I hope you're right!

Regarding Arkista's Ring, it looks like it is an NMK game. I'm not super knowledgeable, but I think it's a bit of an odd one that lacks some good concrete information. On NMK's JP Wikipedia there is no mention, and according to everything else the game was released in the states in '90, but no games whatsoever in the year in Japan. I did a bit of searching and came across a twitter for Sizlla Okamura, a sound designer for NMK. He posts to some evidence on his Facebook page that it was indeed developed from them. Then I saw that our very own trap15 was in on the conversation as well, back in 2015! Maybe if he sees this he can shed some light too 8) .


Last edited by drauch on Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:21 pm 


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added a gif to my post re : safely slashing him as he moves towards you

also regarding his hitbox : I haven't checked the actual data, but you've gotta aim the symbol on his chest. Hitting him at the symbol's height but too far left or right from it will not connect, even if you hit the edge of his sprite
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:28 pm 


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Thanks! Quick reference is much appreciated ! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:29 pm 


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Jaquio is all about learning his pattern and how the fireballs move. His pattern is completely static and repeats itself every... 3 or so cycles back and forth? And the fireballs of course are completely predictable. We've had enough talks about it that I think drauch should be able to dig them up :D
But yeah, for your first kill just be patient and don't try to get in hits where you don't feel completely comfortable about it. If he hits you and knocks you back, one of the fireballs will probably fail to despawn in the bottom and continue to follow you around. Bad times.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:23 am 


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Was a bit bushed Friday evening, so I was especially glad to see the thread remains a finely-tuned Jaquio-killing machine. :smile:

A classic encounter with a timeless Catch-22 ethos (can't hit him without exposing yourself to a slap), and a unique rhythmic element. Looks simple, but disrespect the groove and you'll get tied in knots and laughed offstage. They're all gonna laugh at you! The one thing I'd perhaps add to it are a couple slow-moving "walker" zako, respawning from both sides of the screen... just to complicate the "stop drop n' roll" process of hitting the floor to extinguish the flames slightly.

RE technique discussion, something I'd add (having only learned it very recently myself): direct contact with Jaquio himself does 3HP damage, while his fireballs only do 1HP. I've long advocated that getting hit by the latter is no big deal (especially with the full HP restore you receive for reaching him), and that defense must be prioritised over expedience (or worse, avenging the odd meaningless hit). Knowing this, even moreso. Don't get chased into a body ramming from Jaki Ou himself.

drauch wrote:
Like most, 6-2 used to be the stopping point for my casual runs and I think I got it about down last night. Need to spend some more time with those dive-bombing shuriken chuckers; that part probably gave me the most trouble in death/losing health, but I think due in part that I kept trying to avoid item use to get a better understanding of what I need to do.


That's one of the game's more enduringly scary bits, imo. Lack of floor and random, drifting flak are an evil combination. Fortunately it gives you a Jumpslash immediately before the worst of it (it's on the long, high platform preceding the big jump down); definitely worth expending a little ammo here. Don't try to dodge the flak - the terrain is emphatically unsuitable, and disaster will quickly ensue if you fail. Instead, aggressively mow through it with JS while gaining ground. As always, note that nothing can spawn when you're not scrolling the screen - so a calculatedly proactive observe -> jumpslash -> repeat strategy is ideal. Only takes a couple reps before you're back on solid ground.

Quote:
And ha, so this is what 6-3 looks like! :mrgreen:


Takes me back, that - I actually remember getting the "NES road atlas" as a kid (packed with glorious, painstakingly-compiled stage maps!) and being amazed there was something after the merciless azure hell of 6-2! Actually motivated me to go back and finish the game, albeit in typically dumb little kid "forehead through brick wall" fashion. Don't try it, chaps! Use your fuckin loaf instead!

Then again, without a certain pony-pantied noob's attempts to RAGECLEAR LIKE IT'S 1989 (doomed from the start! no grown man can hope to match the innocent raging TISM of frustrated children!), we wouldn't have this thread. So perhaps it's not an entirely fruitless endeavour. Except for you! Image Try as you might, you are no longer possessed by a fury that burns from inside. That's just indigestion. Image

LITTLE KID RAGECLEARER
Spoiler: show
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BROKEDOWN-ASS GROWN MAYNE TRIES SAME
Spoiler: show
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:50 am 


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BIL wrote:
RE technique discussion, something I'd add (having only learned it very recently myself): direct contact with Jaquio himself does 3HP damage, while his fireballs only do 1HP. I've long advocated that getting hit by the latter is no big deal (especially with the full HP restore you receive for reaching him), and that defense must be prioritised over expedience (or worse, avenging the odd meaningless hit). Knowing this, even moreso. Don't get chased into a body ramming from Jaki Ou himself.


This. Took me awhile before I realized this was why I was dying so fast, when I was supposed to only be taking 1HP per hit.
Also very much agree with not trying to rush him when he seems to have little HP -- I've fallen for this before as well, and a few hits from Jacquio and his fireballs can dwindle your life pretty fast.

drauch wrote:
Like most, 6-2 used to be the stopping point for my casual runs and I think I got it about down last night. Need to spend some more time with those dive-bombing shuriken chuckers; that part probably gave me the most trouble in death/losing health, but I think due in part that I kept trying to avoid item use to get a better understanding of what I need to do.


Not experienced with how to do it with sub-weapons, but I like to avoid the first 2 ninjas, and drop down to the far-left ledge, letting myself get hit by the 2 shurikens they will throw. Works pretty nicely, and you'll be able to walk away with just 2HP lost (assuming you don't get hit by the previous ones -- I do pretty often :lol: ).

Spoiler: show
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(Please excuse the crappy quality, first time making GIF from Youtube video)


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:41 am 


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__SKYe wrote:
Not experienced with how to do it with sub-weapons, but I like to avoid the first 2 ninjas, and drop down to the far-right ledge, letting myself get hit by the 2 shurikens they will throw. Works pretty nicely, and you'll be able to walk away with just 2HP lost (assuming you don't get hit by the previous ones -- I do pretty often :lol: ).

Spoiler: show
Image
(Please excuse the crappy quality, first time making GIF from Youtube video)


Oh wow, wasn't even contemplating doing this without JS. Sounded terrifying until seeing that GIF! The various solutions packed into each of this game's chokepoints (for each subweapon, or indeed none at all) never cease to surprise me. :mrgreen:

RE: jetpack ninjas, I think I'm wrong - they're not random at all, are they? Their spawn height seem determined by player position, and tbh their projectiles (at that particular spot) are something I just learned to shut down on sight, since they linger enough to be a threat even if they "miss" Ryu. From a quick comparison of your gif and Squire's 1LC, I'd guess they behave just like the roaming knife-throwers, shooting in Ryu's general direction a set period after spawning. Haven't confirmed any of this, just theorising. As always, I like how NG1 caters to both dedicated strategists and slopper "just enough to get by" types (like me!).

For subweapon-equipped runs, my crusty ol' "WTF do you mean bad controls, noob?" 1LC tiptoes and fumbles through, cos (just like now!) I don't know precisely what's goin on rofl. Besides that pit + bullets = BAD THING (and conversely, as always, getting hit when there's plenty of fallback space = No big thing).

Spoiler: show
Image


Squire's far smoother 1LC, jetpack ninja buttocks shredded without pause:

Spoiler: show
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:37 am 


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BIL wrote:
__SKYe wrote:
Not experienced with how to do it with sub-weapons, but I like to avoid the first 2 ninjas, and drop down to the far-right ledge, letting myself get hit by the 2 shurikens they will throw. Works pretty nicely, and you'll be able to walk away with just 2HP lost (assuming you don't get hit by the previous ones -- I do pretty often :lol: ).

Spoiler: show
Image
(Please excuse the crappy quality, first time making GIF from Youtube video)


Oh wow, wasn't even contemplating doing this without JS. Sounded terrifying until seeing that GIF! The various solutions packed into each of this game's chokepoints (for each subweapon, or indeed none at all) never cease to surprise me. :mrgreen:


Yeah, it's a pretty damn fine game in that regard, and the fact that you can go through it with just the bare essentials (simple sword in this case) speaks of the quality of its design. There isn't a single place in the game where you require any particular item to go through (as helpful as they are), and even spots like these (where, in my case, I chose to take damage), can be cleared cleanly by just spending some time to formulate a strategy for them.

BIL wrote:
RE: jetpack ninjas, I think I'm wrong - they're not random at all, are they? Their spawn height seem determined by player position, and tbh their projectiles (at that particular spot) are something I just learned to shut down on sight, since they linger enough to be a threat even if they "miss" Ryu. From a quick comparison of your gif and Squire's 1LC, I'd guess they behave just like the roaming knife-throwers, shooting in Ryu's general direction a set period after spawning. Haven't confirmed any of this, just theorising. As always, I like how NG1 caters to both dedicated strategists and slopper "just enough to get by" types (like me!).


I'm also pretty sure they're not random at all, and even their projectiles come aimed at you, and with a constant delay from each other.
I guess their apparent randomness comes from approaching their spawn point mid-jump (which is pretty common. even for experienced players, if you mistime your scrolling a bit onto their spawn point), and the urge to rush ahead usually just exacerbates this, since they usually come in packs and there will be a shuriken-fest on the screen. :lol:

BIL wrote:
For subweapon-equipped runs, my crusty ol' "WTF do you mean bad controls, noob?" 1LC tiptoes and fumbles through, cos (just like now!) I don't know precisely what's goin on rofl. Besides that pit + bullets = BAD THING (and conversely, as always, getting hit when there's plenty of fallback space = No big thing).

Spoiler: show
Image


Squire's far smoother 1LC, jetpack ninja buttocks shredded without pause:

Spoiler: show
Image


This happens plenty to me too, mostly because with the sword only, you have to slash both them and their projectile at once, and the usual is to hit them, but get hit by the projectile, which more often then not will throw you back just enough to spawn another ninja, which complicates matters.
That "cling to the wall" tactic arose precisely from this -- I got tired of getting thrown into the pit by those 2 ninjas (if you notice on my GIF, they spawn quite close to each other, and I often messed up my approach and made them both scroll).

Squire's approach on those last two ninjas is very good, and probably the one I should have used; he proceeds smoothly, and they spawn pretty high on the screen (giving you just enough space to pass by their shurikens without getting hit), and nearly on top of each other, making them behave almost as if they were only one.

I am not sure if you can spawn just one of them, and then the other though, and I honestly can't recall if I've tried it (or tried it enough, at least).


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:38 pm 


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wahhh, too much to keep up with, been spending the last week playing all sorts of games and cooking all sorts of fun foods with my friend who is visiting. sorry for any dropped threads of discussion that i didn't end up resonding to. got to play a lot of his fds stuff! boy, that's not a very good library, and most of the good stuff got ported to the proper famicom. although arumana no kiseki wasn't particularly good, my infinite weakness for grappling hooks had me really wanting to play through the full thing! but i resisted on account of there being so little else acting as motivation to an FDS for myself - gotta have at least one treasure i want.

real disappointed with this given that the famicom is easily my fav console of all time (recent broke 1/3rd of a thousand games for the fc/nes with my 334th!), but it feels like konami and nintendo were the only powers really supporting it, and most of their better stuff got carts. guess there's the superior and cheaper version of bio miracle, at least?

i like that the thing is noisy & unwieldy & i have to flip the damn discs constantly, i guesssss? Image

also played a bunch of the stuff i picked up! which i should be posting in the pick-ups thread, soon, it's a pretty great haul. we've been rapid-firing stuff so i don't have a lot to say about most of these games (the firemen is great!), but we have played each of the rushing beat series and sonic blast man 2 enough to either beat them or get near the end before burning out of credits. boy, each of these were disappointing T_T rushing beat is often made out to be better as it goes along, but from a cursory experience, ran (2) and shura (3) didn't seem very different in terms of quality (i might have even preferred ran), and really not particularly good. the first game is very rough and has an already poor pacing made horrendous by slowdown, goons with way too much health, and the tendency of enemies to linger offscreen for obscene amounts of time. the hit detection also seems really spotty both for punches and grabs, and it turns the experience quite frustrating. if just one of the multiple problems were shaped up, this would be a lot better. i'm still slightly fond of it despite the poor quality, but can't recommend it.

sonic blast man 2 felt like a huge disappointment after watching videos and seeing how it looked in action - it feels incredibly clunky and there are a ton of enemies that will interrupt what you're doing at weird times. getting broken out of a combo or having an enemy suddenly take priority with their grab feels so common that i couldn't even reliably tell when it would happen! despite a pretty diverse moveset, much of it feels too stiff to do a lot with or too much in favor of enemy priority. the big, heavy, green guy has some incredibly flashy moves, including this running jump heavy attack that looks cool and useful, but your hitbox is almost as if you didn't even jump when you perform it and it feels every goddamn enemy move gets priority over it. you can't run or roll into different lanes, either, while enemies shuffle between them constantly. i found it more effective to do my neutral heavy attack as the green guy just because it had vertical range than most of my other moveset, which made the game very tedious, very quickly. i guess it's a little too much to expect them to evolve so much after the poor first game in the series, though. my visiting friend was playing as the girl, and he and i both agreed that it seemed she was the best of the bunch.

i also got sailor moon r (sfc) in this bundle, and it looks okay, i reckon? i didn't actually play this one, and will be getting around to it sometime later. i did, however, watch my visiting friend and my roommate play it! they're both sailor moon fans (and fans of mahou shojo stuff, in general - i pretty much only really like utena), and they seemed to genuinely like it well enough. my roommate also played a bit of the chibiusa mode, and she seemed to think that it was a bit silly and overtly easy/exploitable. i'll give my own impressions whenever i finally get around to it, but man, what the hell is up with that music? it's awful.

edit: just replayed a little of sonic blast man 2 with sonia and holy shit it's like a totally different game. still nothing special, but considerably better
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:57 pm 


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Not a lot of reasons for the FDS, no, but I feel there's something to come for.
Here's my own small collection:

Super Mario Bros. 2: Probably my primary reason for getting this. As a big fan of the classic Mario games, I cherish the fact that one of them is actually genuinely challenging. Don't believe people likening it to Kaizo-style hacks. It's genuine good design.

Bio Miracle Bokutte Upa: As you said, much cheaper than the cartridge version, might as well get it

Nazo No Murasamejou: Zelda's lost cousin. Haven't spent too much time with it yet, but it looks interesting enough, if a little rough. One of the few original Nintendo IPs that's gotten completely abandoned by them.

Meikyuu Jiin Dababa: Still haven't tried this yet - BrianC mentioned it earlier in this thread, and it seemed to hit the right notes for me, so I bought it. Could be a miss, but it looks genuinely cool.

Ai Senshi Nicol: Another Zelda-like. And yeah, it's Konami of course. Very charming graphics.

Zanac: Could have gotten the NES cartridge I guess. But I didn't.

Fire Bam: Absolute utter kusoge. But how could I resist this imagery? BIRRU-SAMA would be proud.

Moero Twinbee, Metroid, Famicom Grand Prix II 3D Hot Rally: Meh, these three came with the system. At least one is a Konami shooter, and it's cool to save you progress in Metroid instead of relying on password. I guess. If I wanted to ever play it again.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:24 pm 


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kitten wrote:
i also got sailor moon r (sfc) in this bundle, and it looks okay, i reckon? i didn't actually play this one, and will be getting around to it sometime later. i did, however, watch my visiting friend and my roommate play it! they're both sailor moon fans (and fans of mahou shojo stuff, in general - i pretty much only really like utena), and they seemed to genuinely like it well enough. my roommate also played a bit of the chibiusa mode, and she seemed to think that it was a bit silly and overtly easy/exploitable. i'll give my own impressions whenever i finally get around to it, but man, what the hell is up with that music? it's awful.


Chibiusa mode is hilarious. Most of the time you're too short for the enemies' attacks to hit you! Her normal range is also pretty ridiculous. Probably why she's in her own mode rather than just a different character. Anyways I credit fed through most of this game a week or two ago and it's not terribly interesting imo, but I'm also not a big fan of belt scrollers in general so I'm probably not the one to ask. I will agree certainly with your assessment of the music though, it's so oddly low-key for an action game. Very ill-fitting.

As for me I've been steadily improving on Kaiketsu Yanchamaru (Kid Niki); I can almost make it to the last stage on one credit. The game can be a real bastard with its enemy spawns but that'll all come down to practice. I have absolutely no idea how to handle the final boss though, so I'm about to go find some replays to watch.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:25 am 


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mycophobia wrote:
Chibiusa mode is hilarious. Most of the time you're too short for the enemies' attacks to hit you! Her normal range is also pretty ridiculous. Probably why she's in her own mode rather than just a different character. Anyways I credit fed through most of this game a week or two ago and it's not terribly interesting imo, but I'm also not a big fan of belt scrollers in general so I'm probably not the one to ask. I will agree certainly with your assessment of the music though, it's so oddly low-key for an action game. Very ill-fitting.


still haven't played it myself, yet, but yeah, watching her play chibiusa was pretty silly! i think she's unlocked after beating the game? it's a shame that that really killer looking arcade beat 'em up never got a home port, i'd love to be able to play that w/ my roomie.

Sumez wrote:
Not a lot of reasons for the FDS, no, but I feel there's something to come for.
Here's my own small collection:


i actually got to play snippets of most of these, and others, last night! sharc's got a pretty impressive fds collection and he brought most of it. he was laughing his ass off at my deaths in super mario bros. 2!!! there's a lot of mean ones in that game, it seriously feels like the origin of a lot of cruel game humor & design, and the whole "kaizo" scene.

the only kaizo i want is of the chojin shubibinman variety, imho. Image

i didn't get to play firebam, though, but boy that one looks weird! i kinda liked nazo no murasamejo, felt like bio miracle had some growing to do on me (i hear the fds version has some exclusive music and is the superior port on top of being cheaper) but could see myself liking it, and really didn't like meikyu jiin dababa. as for the other stuff... there was a whole lot. ah, well, i'll probably do a write-up if i ever get my own fds. that version of wardner is amazingly bad, tho O_O

- - - - - - - - - -

also! me and sharc (my visiting friend, he's posted here a couple of times) just one credit cleared pirates of dark water on hard!! i guess it's technically a two credit clear since both players have to use a credit to play, though? ah, well, you get what i mean. i recorded a play for this - i highly believe this game is really underrated, and there might be some fun stuff for y'all to glean by watching it.

i'm waiting for skye to play this one! Image

play ioz! the big heavy dude! i mean, he ain't no TNWA ninja, but he's a pretty badass dude. definitely my favored character, and he can walk while grabbing >:D
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:21 am 


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The option to use Chibiusa ("ちびうさ" on the title screen) is available to you from the very beginning, although I'm told there are alternate modes that allow co-op with two Chibiusas or with Chibiusa and one of the main five. These include a "Nakayoshi" mode that I assume resembles Pop'n TwinBee's "Couple" mode.

I'd love to get farther in the arcade game by Gazelle (which, as I just learned, shares a MAME driver with Dodonpachi and other CAVE games) , but it's... surprisingly tough. :oops:

While we're on the topic of belt-scrollers (with or without the belt), I might as well add that I've finally jumped on the Ninja Warriors Again bandwagon. The game is as easy as Skykid said (at least, the first four stages on 'Normal'), but a blast to play nonetheless. I initially thought that large portions of the game revolved around Kunoichi's grab -> shove attack until I learned that you could implement the Blaster as a combo finish.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:55 am 


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That's it, I give up! FUCK THIS GAME.

Nah, just kiddin'! I went and done it! :D Thanks for all the tips and videos, definitely a huge help. Played for a couple of hours tonight with nerves of rubber, just totally scrubbin' everything up left and right, miscalculating jumps and falling in pits, swinging too late or too early, and when I finally got to JAPJAQ I completely biffed it. I felt the rage of Edmond swelling in me, and I lost complete control! Yelled and scared the cat and had to apologize. Lifted my fist at the monitor multiple times in rage and finally snapped and punched the monitor! One pixel dead in Jaquio's army of LCDs, but still intact. Maybe wee time for a break, eh? :shock:

Went and meditated (ate food) and calmed myself, remembering the rules of the ninja. This is no way to defeat the enemy. Practiced some more on Jaquio until he was nothing more than a chump. Make a mistake? No big deal, collect yo'self and regain composure until calmness is second nature. 'Tis the way of the ninja! Piece o' cake after that

And wow, what a relief. Feels good, dood. Couldn't have done it without y'all <3


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:09 am 


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Congrats! Welcome to the Task Force!


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:18 am 


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WelshMegalodon wrote:
The option to use Chibiusa ("ちびうさ" on the title screen) is available to you from the very beginning, although I'm told there are alternate modes that allow co-op with two Chibiusas or with Chibiusa and one of the main five. These include a "Nakayoshi" mode that I assume resembles Pop'n TwinBee's "Couple" mode.


huh Image

any idea how to unlock that? it might be fun!

Quote:
I'd love to get farther in the arcade game by Gazelle (which, as I just learned, shares a MAME driver with Dodonpachi and other CAVE games) , but it's... surprisingly tough. :oops:


i assumed it would be mean just on account of it being an arcade beat 'em up, but gosh dang i wanna play it with somebody. and then get totally whomped and whine about it ;___;

Quote:
While we're on the topic of belt-scrollers (with or without the belt), I might as well add that I've finally jumped on the Ninja Warriors Again bandwagon. The game is as easy as Skykid said (at least, the first four stages on 'Normal'), but a blast to play nonetheless. I initially thought that large portions of the game revolved around Kunoichi's grab -> shove attack until I learned that you could implement the Blaster as a combo finish.


frankly, hard mode isn't all that super tough, either (particularly if you're not going for a 1cc), but i think it maintains a really satisfying level of tension and excitement. there's a pretty high skill ceiling for working speed & flourishes into the play, too, which i think gives it a really interesting and highly replayable curve. i still need to go back to it, but i've said in the thread a few times already, i'm willing to let this game be a very long burn, it deserves to be a favorite to come back to for years to come. i'm kind of glad that this makes TNWA a bit easy to recommend to more casual players, too!

- - - - - - - - - -

also!!! me and sharc just ran through streets of rage 2! because i lost on the copies of bare knuckle 2 i was bidding on! we did a 2-player normal mode 1cc, and frankly could have probably switched to hard. ended with 7 & 4 lives and pretty much tore the game up. i was axel, the grand-uppah'ing scrub that i am, and he was blaze. we did a recording, and i'll be posting that along with the pirates of dark water play pretty soon. i rly love this game.

we're thinking about practicing as max & skate and doing a hard mode 1cc during the next visit, which might be in a few months. that could be really rad!
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:25 am 


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I have been playing mostly Wild Guns and Wild Guns Reloaded lately, but I also plan to play the JP Ninjawarriors Again now that I have SD2SNES. I'm getting to the point where I have cleared 4 stages on one credit on both Wild Guns and Reloaded, and get game over at the train stage. I made it to the final stage with continues, but haven't beaten either Wild Guns yet. I'm playing Normal on the original, but starting with Easy on Reloaded. I have been using mostly Annie in both Wild Guns and Reloaded.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:42 am 


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kitten wrote:
(the firemen is great!)


It certainly is - the premise is brilliantly novel (with direction on par with Assault Suits Valken for seamless arcade cinema), but the play is 100% hardcore topdown seek/destroy. Do note! The small "grass" fire (the stuff that'll block your path, but is harmless in itself) doesn't count towards your end-stage "Fire Rate." Nor do most of the projectile-type flames. The trick is to listen for that telltale low, insistent rumble - if you hear it, something in the vicinity needs dousing.

More info here. This'll become critically useful info if you decide to go for the deceptively, wickedly intense FIREMAN OF LEGEND ranking. :cool:

Sumez wrote:
Nazo No Murasamejou: Zelda's lost cousin. Haven't spent too much time with it yet, but it looks interesting enough, if a little rough.


I love this one - basically Zelda I's search/destroy transposed into a relentless arcade course. The automelee is smoove. I got the GBA Mini version, as with SMB2, Zelda II, Metroid and Kid Icarus - pardon the slightly smooshed resolution, which I don't really notice tbh, they're lovely little carts to have around. And no loading / disk flipping, which is nice!

Quote:
Zanac: Could have gotten the NES cartridge I guess. But I didn't.


The NES cart is supposedly subtly different, so it's probably worth having both for fans. I've been happy enough with the PS1 ports via Zanac X Zanac (which includes both the NES and FDS versions, plus an entirely new Arrangement with some neat ideas - not to be confused with the headlining game Zanac Neo, that's an original sequel).

Quote:
Fire Bam: Absolute utter kusoge. But how could I resist this imagery? BIRRU-SAMA would be proud.


Yeah boyeee! :cool: Check out the main dude's monstrous wanking arm! No doubt the product of many long, lonely nights in the jungle! The fuck you want, for the poor sonofabitch to fuck a squirrel or somethin? :shock:

Quote:
Moero Twinbee, Metroid, Famicom Grand Prix II 3D Hot Rally: Meh, these three came with the system. At least one is a Konami shooter, and it's cool to save you progress in Metroid instead of relying on password. I guess. If I wanted to ever play it again.


FDS Metroid is subtly better than the NES cart - certain enemies have random behaviours missing from the latter, for example Norfair's dragons will fire in unpredictable arcs, and Sidehoppers likewise move erratically. Makes things feel a bit more chaotic. Also less slowdown, and some particularly nice use of the FDS sound channel.

drauch wrote:
That's it, I give up! FUCK THIS GAME.

Nah, just kiddin'! I went and done it! :D


Welcome aboard! Intense writeup, hope your hand is okay! Bruises fade but your place on the title post is forever. :mrgreen:

WelshMegalodon wrote:
While we're on the topic of belt-scrollers (with or without the belt), I might as well add that I've finally jumped on the Ninja Warriors Again bandwagon. The game is as easy as Skykid said (at least, the first four stages on 'Normal'), but a blast to play nonetheless. I initially thought that large portions of the game revolved around Kunoichi's grab -> shove attack until I learned that you could implement the Blaster as a combo finish.


It's the towering performance ceiling that gives TNWA its infinite replay value (at least as Ninja and Kunoichi - Kamaitachi doesn't compare imo, more of a beginner character... but the former two are so radically divergent, and unique in their own rights, it doesn't begin to matter). I'm not a speedrunner but I do like fuckin demolition - this one's a bottomless beer glass of murderous technique. Image

Note Kunoichi's grapple flurry, a masterful bit of technology. It's simultaneously the game's weakest attack (broken off at one hit, it's the only thing the standard knife grunt can survive - actually very useful when you want to knock one down without freeing his slot for someone tougher), and its strongest (the whole sequence surpasses even Ninja's almighty atomic drop - with the obvious caveat that it's slow and interruptible, where Ninja can bust out three invincible, almost as deadly drops in the same span). Try hitting bosses or big enemies with a jump-in kick, the full four standing slashes, then grabbing them for the full flurry - the sense of a mighty foe fought perilously toe-to-toe and brought devastatingly low is immortally gratifying. Image

I really like how Kunoichi/Ninja aren't the cliche fast+weak/slow+strong pair... as said, the former is a demolition machine in the right hands. It's reach that she lacks, and that you need to work around. Similarly, Ninja is actually the game's fastest character, on both acceleration and top speed - but his monstrous bulk attaches a heavy caveat, with recovery frames that'll scupper an inelegant player.

It's a killer game. Still haven't nailed a run I felt even began doing justice to either character. There's always that one prick who manages to knock me flat, or stab me in the back! One of these days.

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Last edited by BIL on Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:16 am 


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Congrats drauch, great job. 8)

kitten wrote:
i also got sailor moon r (sfc) in this bundle, and it looks okay, i reckon? i didn't actually play this one, and will be getting around to it sometime later. i did, however, watch my visiting friend and my roommate play it! they're both sailor moon fans (and fans of mahou shojo stuff, in general - i pretty much only really like utena), and they seemed to genuinely like it well enough. my roommate also played a bit of the chibiusa mode, and she seemed to think that it was a bit silly and overtly easy/exploitable. i'll give my own impressions whenever i finally get around to it, but man, what the hell is up with that music? it's awful.


It is a good game, both design and mechanics-wise. As for the presentation, it is more of a personal matter -- I'm not really into the magical girl thing at all, but I don't really mind it if the gameplay is good (and it is), and the graphics are actually quite nice.
The soundtrack is so-so, and perhaps comes off as worse than it is because while I think it fits the theme (the Sailor Moon stuff) it doesn't fit the genre. I'm not too bothered by it though.

Chibiusa is definitely easier-than-easy mode, and not terribly interesting after you've played (and get decent) at the main game. It is a nice touch though, as you won't get hit by most attack and in return are unable to throw enemies.

As for the 2P Chibiusa and same character in 2P mode, from Gamefaqs:

Spoiler: show
SAME SENSHI SELECTION--

CODE: L + R + Select + Start (on "player-2" in action menu)
(also can be done on "competition")

You really want to fight as the same senchi in a two player game? ok, I'll
tell you how. After you've selected "Action" put the cursor on "Player-2"
then push and hold L, R, and Select. While you're holding these, push
Start. You should now be able to play as the same senshi in 2 player mode.
This can also be done on "competition". Just put the cursor there and do the
code. Now you can fight it out and see who is the best senshi on equal
terms!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

TWO PLAYER CHIBI-USA!--

CODE: L + R + Select + Start (on "chibiusa")

You want two Chibi-usa's? You got it. Put the cursor on "Chibiusa" then
push and hold L, R, and Select. While you're holding these, push start and
a new menu should appear. This menu will be explained below in the
'Chibi-usa mode' area.

(EMULATION NOTE: The same note above applies to this code as well)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHIBI-USA MODE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

CHIBI-USA MENU--

Sutaato (Start) Nakayoshi (Intimate Friend)
2P-serekuto (2P-Select)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

CHIBI-USA MODES EXPLAINED--

Start -- 2 player mode where both players are Chibi-usa

Intimate
Friend -- Same as above. There seems to be no differance
really. I thought I had it figured out, but I was
wrong... If you figure out the differance, let me
know, please.

2P-select -- Player 2 will play as Chibi-usa while player 1 can
be one of the 5 senshi. great combo!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


kitten wrote:
also! me and sharc (my visiting friend, he's posted here a couple of times) just one credit cleared pirates of dark water on hard!! i guess it's technically a two credit clear since both players have to use a credit to play, though? ah, well, you get what i mean. i recorded a play for this - i highly believe this game is really underrated, and there might be some fun stuff for y'all to glean by watching it.

i'm waiting for skye to play this one! Image

play ioz! the big heavy dude! i mean, he ain't no TNWA ninja, but he's a pretty badass dude. definitely my favored character, and he can walk while grabbing >:D


Finally did play through it once, and while it does many things right, it has one big problem for me: standard enemy waves last for way too long, in a game with a lot of stages.

The mechanics are quite good, though it took me awhile to come to grips with the throw being on a separate button.
The heavy attack is a nice addition, and is actually very useful to hit enemies that are outside your normal attack's range (like the D. Rider and the Big Pirate enemies). This also means that you can't just get close to a downed enemy and spam attack until they die, since some enemies have more range than you.
On the other hand, this leads to one of the game's problems -- since it is very frequent that multiple enemy types will be present at any one time, you can't just spam attack on them, which makes them take too long to die. Ioz is the exception here, since not only does he inflicts pretty heavy damage, but his ability to grab and move at the same time is very useful here.

Level design is also pretty good, with plenty of scenery on the way (like boxes, pillars in the middle of the stage, etc), along with pits, traps, etc, and provides some solid variety.

Also loves seeing enemies be hurt again and again by the traps in the middle of the stages, and although they take little damage from this, it is always fun to watch. :lol:

Liked the decent variety of enemies, though the jump kicking Tattoo Pirates are bloody annoying, especially when they do it from outside the screen. Keeping close prevents them from doing it, but this is not always possible since there are usually enemies behind you as well. Same thing for the sprinting/charging Big Pirates.

The bosses are pretty good as well.

Like I said before, my big issue with it are the amount of enemies in each wave (and by extension, in each stage) -- on Stage 2~3, you'll be fighting anywhere from 10~15 enemies per wave, and with either Ren or Tula (and even Ioz, but not to the same extent) they take too long to kill. And this goes on for 8 stages.

Overall it is a pretty nice game though, but it is most definitely a 1 credit per play session, because a playthrough is pretty long.
I think it's influence from FF is pretty obvious (and perhaps a bit from Capcom's Middle Ages brawlers (can't recall which one(s) does this), with the pose your character makes after each wave), but also perhaps from Sega's Arabian Fight, with the enemies appearing in the foregroung and jumping into the screen, instead of just spawning from the sides.

kitten wrote:
also!!! me and sharc just ran through streets of rage 2! because i lost on the copies of bare knuckle 2 i was bidding on! we did a 2-player normal mode 1cc, and frankly could have probably switched to hard. ended with 7 & 4 lives and pretty much tore the game up. i was axel, the grand-uppah'ing scrub that i am, and he was blaze. we did a recording, and i'll be posting that along with the pirates of dark water play pretty soon. i rly love this game.


The differences between SOR2 and BK2 are minimal and cosmetic only (though BK2 is still cooler), so you're golden. :wink:
Good job on the 2P clear, will watch it when posted.

-----

Also, because Kaizou Choujin Shubibinman was mentioned: BS Kaizou Choujin Shubibinman Zero was made into a cartridge and sold in limited quantities in July this year (to celebrate it's 20th anniversary). Pretty hefty price, though, going anywhere from 55€ to 85€ on Ebay.
You can read more about it here, if you are interested.


Last edited by __SKYe on Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:04 am 


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drauch wrote:
That's it, I give up! FUCK THIS GAME.

Nah, just kiddin'! I went and done it! :D Thanks for all the tips and videos, definitely a huge help. Played for a couple of hours tonight with nerves of rubber, just totally scrubbin' everything up left and right, miscalculating jumps and falling in pits, swinging too late or too early, and when I finally got to JAPJAQ I completely biffed it. I felt the rage of Edmond swelling in me, and I lost complete control! Yelled and scared the cat and had to apologize. Lifted my fist at the monitor multiple times in rage and finally snapped and punched the monitor! One pixel dead in Jaquio's army of LCDs, but still intact. Maybe wee time for a break, eh? :shock:

Went and meditated (ate food) and calmed myself, remembering the rules of the ninja. This is no way to defeat the enemy. Practiced some more on Jaquio until he was nothing more than a chump. Make a mistake? No big deal, collect yo'self and regain composure until calmness is second nature. 'Tis the way of the ninja! Piece o' cake after that

And wow, what a relief. Feels good, dood. Couldn't have done it without y'all <3

Great job drauch :)

I am happy that you found THE LEGENDARY CALM in you :mrgreen: keeping composure despite frustrating moments was definitely the key
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:27 am 


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BIL wrote:
It certainly is - the premise is brilliantly novel (with direction on par with Assault Suits Valken for seamless arcade cinema), but the play is 100% hardcore topdown seek/destroy. Do note! The small "grass" fire (the stuff that'll block your path, but is harmless in itself) doesn't count towards your end-stage "Fire Rate." Nor do most of the projectile-type flames. The trick is to listen for that telltale low, insistent rumble - if you hear it, something in the vicinity needs dousing.

More info here. This'll become critically useful info if you decide to go for the deceptively, wickedly intense FIREMAN OF LEGEND ranking. :cool:


i actually saw this post before playing, it had some useful information! this game is superb with regards to its audio queues. i'll definitely be sure to apply some of this when i make a more serious crack at the game - i was doing a casual playthrough while chatting with my friend about, and burned all my continues on normal on the final stage (oops lol). a few of the enemies in the last stage seem like they can launch flame projectiles that kinda look like you could douse them, but will totally hit you if you don't get out the way. i stubbornly ate too many!! how many differences are there on expert?

what originally led me to posting here was that this is one of the only forums on the goddamn planet where people will actually talk about this stuff O_O;!! and by that i mean classic games from a perspective of actual understanding of their play and historical context. so many threads on here turn up in google searches when looking for info on something that i eventually felt i wanted to contribute. i used to only talk with a few friends about this stuff - i have a thread on a functionally private forum where i talk with one person about this stuff for tens of thousands of words, just me & him.

it's nice to be able to chat with other enthusiasts who have actual enthusiasm when i'm feeling up to it!! people who talk about games and actually play them to any competent level are really bizarrely rare, especially those who appreciate this era. thanks for your posts, BIL (both about this game and in general), if i remember correctly, they were the difference between me getting this now and "maybe, eventually, i guess people on youtube occasionally talked it up but what the hell does that mean?"

__SKYe wrote:
It is a good game, both design and mechanics-wise. As for the presentation, it is more of a personal matter -- I'm not really into the magical girl thing at all, but I don't really mind it if the gameplay is good (and it is), and the graphics are actually quite nice.
The soundtrack is so-so, and perhaps comes off as worse than it is because while I think it fits the theme (the Sailor Moon stuff) it doesn't fit the genre. I'm not too bothered by it though.


my friends didn't even seem to think it fit the show :S it's just... whoof. what on earth were they thinking with this stuff? it's very sad that what appears to be both a visually & mechanically competent game is cursed with MIDI lullaby music.

Quote:
As for the 2P Chibiusa and same character in 2P mode, from Gamefaqs:


gomen, gomen! ah, they do sometimes have some useful info on imports...

and i frequently forget to look! Image

Quote:
Finally did play through it once, and while it does many things right, it has one big problem for me: standard enemy waves last for way too long, in a game with a lot of stages.


this is definitely much less of a problem in co-op. i feel like the game's biggest detriment is its length and general setpiece-to-setpiece stream of enemies making it take too long, but this isn't so bad in a session with two competent players who are keeping track of their zones. definitely something i'd alter if i were the one designing the game, but the only time i really end up feeling it in a particularly bad way is during this particular segment toward the end of the final stage where only two enemies are coming on-stream at a time and it just becomes boring to manage. the enemy variety also tends to help make up for the many, many situations where you're just going after a ton of mooks. i've not played this in single player, but i can definitely see it being a bigger issue.

plus, you can get totally fun shit like this happening in co-op! captured from my play, which i've yet to get uploaded (still got encoding/uploading/etc. to do)

Spoiler: show
Image


Quote:
Also loves seeing enemies be hurt again and again by the traps in the middle of the stages, and although they take little damage from this, it is always fun to watch. :lol:


yes! and boy, there are so many pits where you can play slightly riskier and toss enemies into them, too. this is one of my favorite things about technos beat 'em ups, particularly double dragon 2 - traps that can totally fuck you over, or be used to your advantage. i love to play dirty in these kinda games. ah, man, i should totally gif a few fun moments where i'm just tossing dudes down holes, it's so satisfying. so few games in the genre feel like they properly utilize this stuff.

Quote:
Liked the decent variety of enemies, though the jump kicking Tattoo Pirates are bloody annoying, especially when they do it from outside the screen. Keeping close prevents them from doing it, but this is not always possible since there are usually enemies behind you as well. Same thing for the sprinting/charging Big Pirates.


if you're strafing lanes, you're really unlikely to get pelted with this, and you can always stop a sprinting pirate in his tracks with a well-timed jab. there is definitely a problem with them launching from offscreen, but i feel like as far as games i've played in the genre go, this one is frankly pretty generous with both the damage values from those attacks and how you don't have to deal with them too often to turn it into a big issue. on a side note, batman returns is really good about no off-screen attackers, and in some pretty subtle ways, at times. really don't see that often. even superb games like SoR/BN2 can suffer from some of that shit!

Quote:
The bosses are pretty good as well.


i was really surprised at some of the boss variety! both a shmup boss AND a big gimmick boss you can slam around - good stuff, and really helps break up the flow. no bosses have total bullshit attacks, either, and feel pretty danged fair, to me. sometimes i don't remember/catch onto their pattern until i've eaten it several times or the fight is already over, but i never feel like what to do is incomprehensible or too obtuse.

Quote:
The differences between SOR2 and BK2 are minimal and cosmetic only (though BK2 is still cooler), so you're golden. :wink:
Good job on the 2P clear, will watch it when posted.


the biggest difference is in that awesome boxxxxx

Quote:
Also, because Kaizou Choujin Shubibinman was mentioned: BS Kaizou Choujin Shubibinman Zero was made into a cartridge and sold in limited quantities in July this year (to celebrate it's 20th anniversary). Pretty hefty price, though, going anywhere from 55€ to 85€ on Ebay.
You can read more about it here, if you are interested.


i nabbed one for like $30 that had been opened and had a slight bend in the box a couple months ago. talked about the physical release back in this post a little bit, actually. been meaning to do a recording of this one, but i don't know if i want to do a plain old nomiss/1cc or a score run one. i did a pretty high scoring run before shelving it for a little while, but that shit is kind of boring to watch. the game has super smooth controls and snappy pacing, but getting high score is a lot of making sure you get every single enemy drop, which can be boring to both perform and to watch. maybe i'll do both? neither? only time will tell!

either way, i like the game quite a bit. the first is the only one in the series i've not played, now, but having recently got a copy, it won't be that way for long.
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