OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[Xyga]

I can't quite follow you, but indeed, it's a good monitor

One more awesome thing about the Viewsonic VX3211-mh and the OSSC.

I don't know if you have noticed but; can you fucking believe the overscan switch in the menus works with all modes ?
Yup, it will zoom 2x, 3x and 4x too afaik just fine, stretching the picture and pushing out the top & bottom borders almost exactly the right amount (at least for the MD but it's gotta work nicely with other systems too)

I was just trying some MD toaplan ports in 3x without scanlines and this is just great because unlike 5x of course we can take advantage of all the smoothing possibilities;
- video LPF settings on the OSSC
- upscaling interpolation of the monitor (depending on the x* mode)
- sharpness settings of the monitor

Basically with just selecting 3x and LPF auto I get a perfect, slightly smoothed, without big borders picture.
For an even smoother result decreasing the monitor's sharpness to 25 also works well but it's too much for scrolling games imho.
Anyway it's fantastic, the overscan doesn't even break the scaling as far as I'v tried so even the fake scanlines still look good with it on.

I'm just baffled because this is the first time I've seen the overscan switch not permanently greyed-out and actually doing its job on a flat panel monitor, even with external sources (haven't tried VGA w/ the DISPL & XRGBs yet because my jp21>scart adapter is broken, but I will asap)

Still can't believe how many things this monitor does right, awesome value.

[Thomago]

Oh shit, I didn't notice that; in fact I didn't even try the Overscan option. Very handy!!!

[Bobster]

Is there an US version of the Viewsonic VX3211-mh monitor? Sounds like a solid option for the OSSC.

[Xyga]

Oh shit, I didn't notice that; in fact I didn't even try the Overscan option. Very handy!!!

Borderless lineX3 and lineX4 is sick !

With overscan on, depending on the game and if you use scanlines or not, the sharpness settings 0, 25, 50, and 75 all can be used, but it's 25 and 50 that'll look the best in most cases. The various combinations of 2x, 3x, 4x and sharpness 25, 50 cover practically every situation, too bad there's no shortcut for th sharpness slider.

Lol I don't even see any ringing, this beats lineX5 and makes my DVDOs obsolete.

EDIT: there's still thin borders with some games of course it's not perfect, but for instance TF IV has less borders remaining in x4, and it looks good with scanlines at 75%, and sharpness at 50 or 75 (remember 75 also acts as contrast booster).
But with many others it's alpost a perfect fit, TF III for instance.

Is there an US version of the Viewsonic VX3211-mh monitor? Sounds like a solid option for the OSSC.

Afaik Viewsonic aren't present on the NA market...
EDIT: or are they? I've read somewhere they weren't. anyway if they sell that monitor in NA it should have the same product/part number.
Unlike with TVs manufacturers typically don't rename their monitors for different markets, but heh maybe a few do, dunno...
EDIT2: ok they do sell in the US but I've seen only the VX3211-2K-mhd (WQHD version) and I can't tell you if it's as good as the Full-HD version Thomago and I have. It looks exactly the same on specs though, only with a 1440p panel...

[Fudoh]

Would one of you two please take a snapshot of the screen, so we (or I in particular) can see how upscaled scanlines look like on the Viewsonic?

[Thomago]

Here you go:



Settings:

OSSC: Line4x; I increased scanline density a bit.
Viewsonic VX3211-mh: Aspect Ratio "4:3", Overscan "On". I didn't touch the sharpness setting.

[Xyga]

My camera is damn awful but;

OSS: 3x, LPF auto, scanlines 50%
Viewsonic: sharpness 50 (default), overscan on
Picture: Zz Badnusty

I can take more shots of whatever you want.

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[Syntax]

After realising many consoles output uneven RGB values I had the thought to use the OSSC to check vpp of each channel.
Borti has suggested that one could output max digital value for each channel for the past frame.

This way everyone with an OSSC could tune their RGB levels perfectly even and not have to go through the hoops of paint/capture cards ECT


Let's make it happen?

[Fudoh]

Thanks for the snapshots! That looks really solid. Very glad to hear that this seems to a be solid choice for a 32" display. I'm still a bit shocked how bad the Sony 32" 7xxC is in terms of pixel response times. I mean, yes, it's a neat set, good options, nice scaling and excellent input lag, but certain color transitions are really bad (e.g. if you got any sprites moving along a green background). This plus the added OSSC compatibility on the Viewsonic make it sound like a really nice choice (and I'm tempted with the 1440p version, which is actually also quite cheap for what you get).

[Bobster]

Is there an US version of the Viewsonic VX3211-mh monitor? Sounds like a solid option for the OSSC.

Afaik Viewsonic aren't present on the NA market...
EDIT: or are they? I've read somewhere they weren't. anyway if they sell that monitor in NA it should have the same product/part number.
Unlike with TVs manufacturers typically don't rename their monitors for different markets, but heh maybe a few do, dunno...
EDIT2: ok they do sell in the US but I've seen only the VX3211-2K-mhd (WQHD version) and I can't tell you if it's as good as the Full-HD version Thomago and I have. It looks exactly the same on specs though, only with a 1440p panel...

OK thanks for the clarification! I'm considering having a monitor be a Christmas present to myself and I'm not picky so I figured I'd get something that others have found works well .

[rama]

After realising many consoles output uneven RGB values I had the thought to use the OSSC to check vpp of each channel.
Borti has suggested that one could output max digital value for each channel for the past frame.
This way everyone with an OSSC could tune their RGB levels perfectly even and not have to go through the hoops of paint/capture cards ECT

I try to do this just with an Arduino ADC sampling random values and it works okay.
After I'm relatively sure I found a maximum value, I increase / decrease the scaler's ADC gains until it starts matching my target.
With that nice FPGA on an OSSC, this should be much easier and more correct.

A really good use case is for old 3 chip SNES consoles. Their RGB levels are very weak, so they look dark and muddy without compensation.

[Xyga]

OK thanks for the clarification! I'm considering having a monitor be a Christmas present to myself and I'm not picky so I figured I'd get something that others have found works well .

You could give the 1440p version a try but really there's no way for us to guarantee it will perform all like the FHD one.
The few differences I've noted besides the higher resolution panel - wich the silly description rates 10bit but is bound to be 8bit+frc - is that it's got a DisplayPort input and some descriptions also say the coating is matte.

Found only one review in german but it doesn't seem very useful, no lag test it seems http://www.lite-magazin.de/2017/09/view ... d-monitor/

[Galdelico]

Here you go:

Settings:

OSSC: Line4x; I increased scanline density a bit.
Viewsonic VX3211-mh: Aspect Ratio "4:3", Overscan "On". I didn't touch the sharpness setting.

That's very interesting.
On my 1080p monitors - both of them - I get very noticeable horizontal patterns, while using scanlines in Line4x, as they look uneven right off the bat. Is the overscan option of your monitor that rectifies that issue?

[FBX]

I don't think I've posted this here yet, but here's Dreamcast VGA >>> Toro Box >>> OSSC line 2x optimal >>> E1s capture:



I've never seen that much clarity before on the Dreamcast. You can even see the hardware dithering!

-FBX

[TooBeaucoup]

Well, my OSSC arrived today. Sadly, my HDTV, a high-end 60" Sony, Model KDL-60NX810 from 2011 doesn't like anything other than 2x mode (Which still looks incredible). However, My 25" HP 2509b PC monitor will take absolutely everything I throw at it without thinking twice, 3x, 4x, 5x, any of the resolution tweaking options... There was nothing in the OSSC settings that it wouldn't recognize and display, beautifully. I almost wish I hadn't bothered trying my PC monitor, because it just makes me sad that my HDTV can't do the same. LOL! I have a Framemeister too, so it's whatever, but I sure would like to use the OSSC as well. Ahhh, well... Maybe this is a good reason for a TV upgrade. HA HA!!!

[Syntax]

After realising many consoles output uneven RGB values I had the thought to use the OSSC to check vpp of each channel.
Borti has suggested that one could output max digital value for each channel for the past frame.
This way everyone with an OSSC could tune their RGB levels perfectly even and not have to go through the hoops of paint/capture cards ECT

I try to do this just with an Arduino ADC sampling random values and it works okay.
After I'm relatively sure I found a maximum value, I increase / decrease the scaler's ADC gains until it starts matching my target.
With that nice FPGA on an OSSC, this should be much easier and more correct.

A really good use case is for old 3 chip SNES consoles. Their RGB levels are very weak, so they look dark and muddy without compensation.

It's applicable to any console really.
I personally would love to know if any of my consoles output uneven RGB signals, then tune their bias accordingly with just the OSSC.
Just thinking about it makes my OCD tingle

I'm quite surprised that this hasn't been suggested earlier or have I missed something?

[FBX]

So check this out:

You can actually use the Framemeister to 'condition' the output of the OSSC into a signal that picky TVs handle no problem. The trick is to use the HDMI output of the newer OSSCs, pipe that into one of the HDMI ports on the Framemeister, and then use the Framemeister's ZOOM settings to dial in perfect vertical integer scaling. I've got Dreamcast VGA Code Veronica set up like this, and it goes to my Sony TV without any issues. I just had to adjust the ZOOM_SIZE and ZOOM_OVERSCAN settings until the vertical height matches what it should be for a 1080p screen. The awesome thing about all this is there's NO false contouring when you use the Framemeister to scale the HDMI feed like this!

From what I understand, the OSSC doesn't really ad any lag, so this effectively turns the combo of the two into the ultimate compatibility scaling solution!

Gonna keep working on this and report back after I test other consoles with this trick.

-FBX

[TooBeaucoup]

So check this out:

You can actually use the Framemeister to 'condition' the output of the OSSC into a signal that picky TVs handle no problem. The trick is to use the HDMI output of the newer OSSCs, pipe that into one of the HDMI ports on the Framemeister, and then use the Framemeister's ZOOM settings to dial in perfect vertical integer scaling. I've got Dreamcast VGA Code Veronica set up like this, and it goes to my Sony TV without any issues. I just had to adjust the ZOOM_SIZE and ZOOM_OVERSCAN settings until the vertical height matches what it should be for a 1080p screen. The awesome thing about all this is there's NO false contouring when you use the Framemeister to scale the HDMI feed like this!

From what I understand, the OSSC doesn't really ad any lag, so this effectively turns the combo of the two into the ultimate compatibility scaling solution!

Gonna keep working on this and report back after I test other consoles with this trick.

-FBX

I thought this could be a solution, but wouldn't this add the Framemeister's 1-2 frames of lag onto the signal? My interest in the OSSC was that it was essentially lag-free, even though I don't really notice any lag on the Framemeister.

[paulb_nl]

After realising many consoles output uneven RGB values I had the thought to use the OSSC to check vpp of each channel.
Borti has suggested that one could output max digital value for each channel for the past frame.

This way everyone with an OSSC could tune their RGB levels perfectly even and not have to go through the hoops of paint/capture cards ECT

That would be a nice feature. However as FBX has pointed out the top of the frame is brighter on the SCART input at least so it would be needed to only sample the values in the middle of the frame.

[Fudoh]

On the DC > OSSC > FM > TV chain did you feed 960p into the FM or just 480p ?

The combination gives a little edge with 480p titles that would otherwise suffer from the FM's initial processing, but it's kinda useless for 240p content, since you a) add the lag back in, b) you're dealing with the FM's internal reduction to 4:2:2 video. So, for 240p content, I wouldn't expect any quality gain over feeding the FM directly from the sources.

[Syntax]

After realising many consoles output uneven RGB values I had the thought to use the OSSC to check vpp of each channel.
Borti has suggested that one could output max digital value for each channel for the past frame.

This way everyone with an OSSC could tune their RGB levels perfectly even and not have to go through the hoops of paint/capture cards ECT

That would be a nice feature. However as FBX has pointed out the top of the frame is brighter on the SCART input at least so it would be needed to only sample the values in the middle of the frame.

That's irrelevant to leveling out the rgb signals. Using the max values of each color is mearly a reference to how far apart they are from each other.

It causes an issue when trying to find a. 7vpp reference point but I'm sure the brightness difference is minimal and if tuned for all in home consoles wouldn't be an issue.

[FBX]

On the DC > OSSC > FM > TV chain did you feed 960p into the FM or just 480p ?

The combination gives a little edge with 480p titles that would otherwise suffer from the FM's initial processing, but it's kinda useless for 240p content, since you a) add the lag back in, b) you're dealing with the FM's internal reduction to 4:2:2 video. So, for 240p content, I wouldn't expect any quality gain over feeding the FM directly from the sources.

On the contrary, this is with my optimal timing profiles with 960p for the Dreamcast VGA annd I just now tried my optimal line 4x Super NES profile 8:7 square pixels, and the FM handled it no problem! Even more awesome is you can use the Framemeister's Zoom_Width function to aspect-correct the signal and it retains almost perfect sharpness! The OSSC just uses some sort of weird integer multiplier when you set the SNES to 4:3 on that, so this is an awesome advantage to have total scaling control like this.

So I have to say it's just as useful for 240p content as well.

The downsides:
You're of course back to using the Framemeister's lag, but if you want to be able to see superb scaling from the OSSC without having to buy a new TV, this makes it possible.

Audio: The weird timing of the optimal SNES profile I made doesn't seem to function properly when converted by the Framemeister to my A/V receiver. In this case, users would want to use audio breakout cables and hook those up to the rear RCA jacks on the FM, and then set the HDMI audio to "D" input on the FM.

Getting back to the Dreamcast, the VGA output with this method using my 2x optimal 960p profile was a HUGE difference in PQ over the Framemeister's own crappy 480p processing. The picture was amazing on it, not just 'slightly' better.

[Fudoh]

In this case, users would want to use audio breakout cables and hook those up to the rear RCA jacks on the FM, and then set the HDMI audio to "D" input on the FM.

which has the advantage that even the older video-only DVI OSSC are perfectly suited for this setup.

On the contrary, this is with my optimal timing profiles with 960p for the Dreamcast VGA annd I just now tried my optimal line 4x Super NES profile 8:7 square pixels, and the FM handled it no problem! Even more awesome is you can use the Framemeister's Zoom_Width function to aspect-correct the signal and it retains almost perfect sharpness! The OSSC just uses some sort of weird integer multiplier when you set the SNES to 4:3 on that, so this is an awesome advantage to have total scaling control like this.

point taken Would be great to see some E1s snapshots of the combo in action.

EDIT: and can you do a quick test to see if x2, x3, x4 and x5 all work on the FM (or which do) ?

[Elrinth]

audio from hdmi port to tv is perfect
audio from stereo port to pc-line-in is low. is this normal?

[Thomago]

On my 1080p monitors - both of them - I get very noticeable horizontal patterns, while using scanlines in Line4x, as they look uneven right off the bat. Is the overscan option of your monitor that rectifies that issue?

I don't see anything out of the ordinary; the scanlines look even with and without overscan: https://imgur.com/a/AUL8o

[FBX]

Just took a comparison sample of Toro box in the FM directly versus OSSC + FM combo. In the image below, the top sample is with the Framemeister by itself using my DCTORO profile. You can see the typical false contouring in the 480p upscaling that the Framemeister does to ruin the image. In the bottom sample, it's my 2x scale optimal timing OSSC profile, which is then re-scaled by the Framemeister to a 1920x1080p format that any HDTV can handle (or HD capture card for that matter). Look at the clarity and tell me that doesn't kick ass!

[paulb_nl]

That's irrelevant to leveling out the rgb signals. Using the max values of each color is mearly a reference to how far apart they are from each other.

It causes an issue when trying to find a. 7vpp reference point but I'm sure the brightness difference is minimal and if tuned for all in home consoles wouldn't be an issue.

Yea I was thinking about using it with a full white image and the colors at the top part could be clipped but if you just use a lower brightness image then it doesn't matter.

[Galdelico]

I don't see anything out of the ordinary; the scanlines look even with and without overscan: https://imgur.com/a/AUL8o

Ha, that's new to me.
I thought scanlines at Line4x/5x (and at Line3x too, yet very subtly, especially on certain colours) should look uneven on a 1080p display, due to the non-integer scaling from 720p. And that's exactly what happens on both my 1080p monitors, vs. my 4K one.

Do they still look good if you crank them up to 100%?

Just took a comparison sample of Toro box in the FM directly versus OSSC + FM combo. In the image below, the top sample is with the Framemeister by itself using my DCTORO profile. You can see the typical false contouring in the 480p upscaling that the Framemeister does to ruin the image. In the bottom sample, it's my 2x scale optimal timing OSSC profile, which is then re-scaled by the Framemeister to a 1920x1080p format that any HDTV can handle (or HD capture card for that matter). Look at the clarity and tell me that doesn't kick ass!

The difference is quite staggering to be honest.

[Thomago]

I thought scanlines at Line4x/5x (and at Line3x too, yet very subtly, especially on certain colours) should look uneven on a 1080p display, due to the non-integer scaling from 720p. And that's exactly what happens on both my 1080p monitors, vs. my 4K one.
Do they still look good if you crank them up to 100%?

Huh, were did you get that impression? I mean - due to the non-integer scaling there will always be slight uniformity issues, but, provided you are sitting reasonably far away from your display, a good scaling engine should make them pretty much invisible.

Anyway, this is what 100% scanlines look like in Line4x with Overscan on:

Spoiler

Line3x looks equally fine.

[Xyga]

@G: When not in a 1:1 situation and scaling is applied to the source signal, how the fake scanlines will look (uniform or uneven) depends heavily on the scaling engine, be it the display's own or that of an external one like a DVDO would there be one in the chain.
People always bring up the resolution and scaling factors like it's the only thing that matters, but they're wrong.

This monitor happens to use a scaling engine that bothers with retaining most of the source's integer proportions while interpolating/smoothing the whole gently-enough to not ruin the job. The unevenness is still there, but well-hidden and not easily seen to the naked eye. Which is not the case for instance with the S32F351 I've reviewed before, the scaling would produce faint unevenness artifacts visible even from a reasonable distance, only a DVDO would help to shoo the artifacts away.
So the Viewsonic's scaling is not retaining lots of details like a high-end AV scaler, but at least it does that right by itself. IIRC the iScan HD+ does something similar.

Reminds me I should see if the 32MP58 can do it too (the overscan thing) because while it cannot do real 5x, elimination of the borders for 2x, 3x and 4x would more than reasonably make up for it.

Honestly I almost cannot believe how convenient the VX3211-hm is, it's not the perfect lcd display but sorta feels like the conclusion of a long quest.