Mushihimesama PS2 audio issues?

[ASDR]

After a decade plus of using my PS2 with nothing but optical out I learned today the there are apparently games that don't support digital out. That's so weird, why would they do that...

But even the stereo analog out sounds bad. There's just something missing, audio is real terrible. Between the slowdown and the blurry interlaced video I'm beginning think this port might just be a lost cause, but is there anything I can do about the audio quality?

Thanks!

[gray117]

It was not the best port in terms of choices. But it was a pretty good playing one.

Unfortunately the blur filter option seemed to be the graphical technique of choice for mushihimesama and ibara. 240p hack on a crt was the best way to minimise this. Cave was publicly leary of console ports at the time - seeing them as lesser than arcade - so you wonder if it received the scrutiny it may have that might have dictated a different choice on whether to apply filter/not/how. (After all Arika did it right with doj and espagaluda by comparison - so might have just simply been opinion of individual somewhere along the chain that no one cared to differ with....)

These days pc/360 will be the easiest way to play.

No digital audio is a bit of a mystery, there's only a handful of games I think that do it. Supposition usually jumps to audio copy protection, but personally would either assume some avoiding questions around questions about legal messages/screens/logos/credits either in game or on packaging or in manuals, so rather than worry about it they just avoided it ... Either that or just a straight up mistake that was never tested, and wasn't a requirement from sony.

Personally find the analogue perfectly good from breakout on scart cable? ... though never bothered to compare to other ports ...

Personally still very fond of the ps2 port overall. May not be perfect but still an excellent game imho - though these days if you're not 240p on a crt (which I prefer over 360 hd) there may be easier ways to play... + personal taste whether you'd go for hd or not

[ASDR]

I had the impression it moved really slow, is the arcade original like that as well?

Thanks for confirming that the audio works fine on your end, I'll debug my setup or try a different system. I haven't used the stereo out on my PS2 in ages, maybe something about the console, switchers, amp, wiring, TV/AV-receiver settings is to blame.

It's interesting that there is no 'force optical' switch in something like OPL. The situation reminds me a bit of the DC where many games don't support VGA but it's really just a flag that is automatically hotpatched by things like GDemu/menu anyway.

[Bananamatic]

I had the impression it moved really slow, is the arcade original like that as well?

there's more slowdown compared to arcade and 360/steam ports but it's still miles better than mame emulation

[ASDR]

I had the impression it moved really slow, is the arcade original like that as well?

there's more slowdown compared to arcade and 360/steam ports but it's still miles better than mame emulation

I have to admit that even though I used tons of emulators I never tried MAME. I'm becoming increasingly interested in it because of all the Saturn/PS1/PS2 arcade ports I'm playing, though. Is what you're saying generally true? Do many/most 90s arcade shmup game have performance issues on MAME, even on a decent PC?

[Shepardus]

Many games run fine in MAME, but CAVE's games from Mushihimesama onwards aren't emulated very well (their earlier games are on different hardware and are much better off). Playable, yes, but there are various emulation inaccuracies including the slowdown not being simulated correctly, and in my experience it's more taxing on the CPU than most games are in MAME so unless you've got a high clock speed on your CPU (well, higher than mine at least) you'll likely run into performance issues in addition to the emulation issues. Bananamatic's probably referring to the emulation inaccuracy moreso than the performance issues. Mushihimesama

[OmegaFlareX]

The CV1K games in MAME are too fast. There's almost no slowdown at all. They were not designed to be played that way, it's too hard. But it's pretty amazing to look at.

[Bananamatic]

not to mention the extra input delay
the controls are shit and the speed is completely off

[stacks183]

MAME emulation for Mushi and Ibara is miles better than abysmal PS2 ports. Slowdown is completely incorrect in either version, and both graphics and sound are way superior in MAME. You can also get slowdown pretty close to arcades in MAME by tweaking some settings, way closer than both PS2 ports. Two other problems that MAME has are input lag, and slight microstutter for a second at the start of each level in Ibara. For the input lag, it's really not that bad, and you can alleviate it by using different MAME builds, fast monitor and no VSync. Depending on your TV, PS2 can also have it's share of input lag, so it's really a matter of setup more than anything. As for the microstutter in Ibara, it doesn't affect gameplay, as it happens when level is loading and there are still no enemies on screen. It also probably can be fixed by just using an SSD.

Personally, as a proud owner of both Mushi and Ibara on PS2 in past, I switched to MAME and never looked back. If you can't get a 360, or Steam version of Mushi, MAME is the best way to play these games on PC.

[spmbx]

Doesn't mame load the entire rom into memory before starting? If so how would an SSD help? You could even test it out by making a ramdrive and putting mame + ibara rom on that.

[Bananamatic]

Slowdown is completely incorrect in either version

mushi just has more slowdown overall on ps2, it's very far from "completely incorrect"
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm17906239
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm17906272
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13344067
here are some side by side comparison videos for ps2 and arcade

ps2: less input lag (in a game that already has a lot of native delay), more consistent slowdown, practice modes, ingame autofire settings, arrange mode (arrange has no slowdown to compare to so it's 100% correct)
mame: better audio and graphics
it's pretty obvious which one is better
what's funny is that futari bl had just as bad slowdown inaccuracies yet no one complained that it's wrong

[stacks183]

Doesn't mame load the entire rom into memory before starting? If so how would an SSD help? You could even test it out by making a ramdrive and putting mame + ibara rom on that.

You may be right. I remember reading about this problem some time ago and assuming it was related to the speed of an HDD, but it was probably an incorrect assumption. I don't have the time to test it right now, but the problem is extremely minor anyway. It is basically noticeable only on couple of late stages and it goes away before any enemies come on screen.

As for the Mushihimesama, you can configure the slowdown in MAME to be very close to the arcade version. You can also make the game have less slowdown than in arcades, which is way better than having more of it. MAME also features easily configurable autofire, and you can use savestates for practice, which is arguable better than the Practice mode, since you can practice specific parts of the level or the boss alone.

PS2 version does have Arrange mode. And it does have less input lag. Personally, I don't care about input lag, but for people who care about it PS2 is probably the better choice. Regardless, both MAME and PS2 version of Mushi are inferior to 360 and Steam one. However, I still think that MAME version is very playable.