Gradius 3 Arc vs PS2 vs SNES

[tizerist]

Hey!
I was wondering what the general consensus is on the various versions of G3? What's the main differences, and what is your favourite, with no nostalgia involved? I heard the Arc/PS2 version have more stages (but I'd rather not have the dire 3D stage), but the SNES version has more weapons. (but they're unlockable in PS2 version??)
Also, how much easier is the PS2 version from the arcade with its extra settings? I don't need another Super R-Type in my life in terms of difficulty. (Although I will be using save states).
Does the PS2 version completely eradicate the notorious slowdown? What other differences are there, and ultimately, what is the best version of this game in your eyes?

[Shepardus]

The PS2 version is a direct port of the arcade version with some extra options. Among other things, there's an option to turn off the slowdown (which is otherwise made to emulate the arcade version's slowdown). The SNES version is a different game adapted from the arcade version. It cuts out some stages from the arcade version, including that 3D stage (though that stage shouldn't be troublesome to begin with), but also adds a high-speed stage not present in the other versions.

[tizerist]

Ok, when you say high speed, do you mean 3D?
And how many stages does it cut out?

[Shepardus]

By "high-speed" I mean fast-scrolling, like stage 6 in Gradius II. The SNES version removes the 3D stage and the crystal stage (with the dreaded cube rush) and reorders some of the other stages. The 3D stage really isn't bad at all - it's like half a minute long and all you have to do is press left or right when you see a wall. As long as you don't get greedy and try to pick up all the powerups it's by far the easiest stage in the arcade version. The removal of the crystal stage, on the other hand, is a godsend for people who actually want to clear the game without going insane.

I believe the SNES version also has some different weapons and the PS2 version has some extra weapon choices but I'll defer to someone more familiar with the games to elaborate on that.

[Squire Grooktook]

SNES version might as well be regarded as an entirely different game with a copied aesthetic.

It's more like they re-arranged the stage "themes", because even though many of them are visually based on the arcade version and share some of the same gimmicks, they are structured completely differently and are different stages for all practical purposes.

Some also say it brings together elements from Gradius II, which was import only for the west at that time. The boss rush for instance feels more like the one in Gradius II.

A lot of people here are slightly put off by SNES Gradius III due to being long, easy (by shmup standards), and its egregious slowdown. It's not a bad game though. I have a soft spot for it, although the slowdown wears on my nerves as well.

Even fewer people have the patience for the utterly brutal arcade version, though.

[rjosal]

I love both versions. I recently got the PCB (and posted a hi score!).

ARC is a stellar game up until the cube rush which is the end of the second to last stage, so if you don't clear it, you still got most of the game done. That's literally the only bad thing about the game. The voice is awesome.

Snes is awesome too. I don't like the wing options. I don't like the konami code. I really like the high speed stage. Plant stage improved, fire stage worse, Moai worse (IMO), bubble improved.

[pegboy]

The SNES version is a much better game in terms of balance and accessibility, but it bares only superficial similarities (visuals and music) to the arcade version. The arcade version is a brutal, miserable game, and after clearing it, I will probably never play it again in my life.

That said, the SNES version doesn't have the same "epic" feeling of the arcade version. Despite it's brutality with unrecoverable and idiotic checkpoints, and the asinine crystal stage, it does have some very memorable stages (bubble, fire, fortress level) if you are willing to invest the time needed to get anywhere in the game.

[Jeneki]

Part of me feels left out for having never made it to the cube rush.

The SNES version does have one part that really annoys me though: when the flower boss' bullets go _behind_ the boss sprite.

[Despatche]

All of the benefits of the SNES version become irrelevant when you realize that 90% of the game is played with crippling slowdown.

[Shepardus]

That said, the SNES version doesn't have the same "epic" feeling of the arcade version. Despite it's brutality with unrecoverable and idiotic checkpoints, and the asinine crystal stage, it does have some very memorable stages (bubble, fire, fortress level) if you are willing to invest the time needed to get anywhere in the game.

I agree, few shmups have ever met the grandiosity of the arcade Gradius III. It's a real shame that experiencing it is such a pain with how brutal the game is. I've had some fun playing the PSP port (which I think is based on the PS2 port) on lower-than-default difficulty settings, though what I would really like is the original difficulty but with sensible checkpoints/recovery.

Also, I like the arcade version's soundtrack more than the SNES soundtrack. The game boasts many of the series' best tunes.

[copy-paster]

PS2 port has "weapon edit" option ala Gradius V.

I think that the slowdown from SNES game are intentional, the enemy bullet speed are too fast without it.



edit : the PS2 port allows you to display the player and enemy hitboxes.

[tizerist]

Thanks, some good insight there. So the SNES version is longer then, according to Squire? Noticeably, or only slightly?

[Sumez]

I never played SNES G3 until last year. I feel almost cheated, it's an amazing game. Don't deny yourself the joy of playing it, slowdown or not. If you find it's far too easy to be enjoyable, at least pat yourself on the shoulder for being great at shmups. The arcade game is ridiculous.

[pegboy]

PS2 port has "weapon edit" option ala Gradius V.

I think that the slowdown from SNES game are intentional, the enemy bullet speed are too fast without it.



edit : the PS2 port allows you to display the player and enemy hitboxes.

It's not intentional, it runs at full speed if you have no options. It seems pretty clear to me that they did intentionally increase the bullet speed to try and compensate for the shitty performance of the game instead.

[WarpZone]

SNES version's slowdown is bad enough that I intentionally only use 1 or 2 options. You can still feel it get slow when you shoot.

The Reduce power-up (replacing shield) is kind of interesting, making the hitbox smaller until you get hit; don't think that's in the arcade version but I'm not very familiar with it.

[Shepardus]

Arcade version also has Reduce if you choose Edit mode, but everyone always chooses the force field.

[OmKol]

Arcade version also has Reduce if you choose Edit mode, but everyone always chooses the force field.

Because Reduce in SNES version gives you 2 hit shield and Reduce in Arcade gives you nothing except very high rank.

And don't forget - slowdown in Arcade is horrible too. Maybe not so horrible but it can ruin your run with sudden speedups (stage 3 boss, fire stage).

[Perikles]

Thanks, some good insight there. So the SNES version is longer then, according to Squire? Noticeably, or only slightly?

There's no real answer to that because you never know how many times you're going to die on the crystal stage in the arcade game. One loop in the SFC port will take about 40 minutes, the arcade game ideally lasts about 45 minutes (which is to say it's always longer than the port) but it can also take an hour or a bit longer.

And don't forget - slowdown in Arcade is horrible too. Maybe not so horrible but it can ruin your run with sudden speedups (stage 3 boss, fire stage).

This cannot be stressed enough. Sneer at the SFC's slowdown all you want, you're never going to crash into a ceiling because for some reason, the game resumes normal speed all of a sudden. Having to deal with all the specific threats in the arcade game while also having to worry about the inconsistencies that come with the framerate adds a whole new layer of difficulty.

[DJ Incompetent]

SNES has better production values (sound and art) along with a superior "trim-the-fat" stage design. It is greatly hindered (and made easy) by significant slowdown. You can introduce challenge back into the game by unlocking a hidden "arcade" difficulty using a turbo controller in the options menu. This version has different Weapon Edit selections from the Arcade version.

PS2 has the official Arcade game's stages, but many game segments are poorly designed. It runs almost like a copy-paste memorizor expansion pack of Arcade Gradius 2. There is a slowdown elimination feature. This version is worth revisiting only because of the hidden unlockable Weapon Edit mode introducing a new player select weapon edit screen, combining the unique weapons of both SNES and Arcade version into a grand diverse customizable set.

[OmKol]

SPS2 has the official Arcade game's stages, but many game segments are poorly designed. It runs almost like a copy-paste memorizor expansion pack of Arcade Gradius 2. There is a slowdown elimination feature. This version is worth revisiting only because of the hidden unlockable Weapon Edit mode introducing a new player select weapon edit screen, combining the unique weapons of both SNES and Arcade version into a grand diverse customizable set.

It also has exclusive difficulties Very Easy and Easiest (Arcade have only Easy difficulty). And changes is really big now - you can destroy projectiles in fire stage like in SNES version and cube rush is super slow and short.

[Mortificator]

"Epic" and "grandiose" are good descriptions for the arcade Gradius III. The roadblocks to enjoying it were its difficulty and slowdown, and the PS2 port lets the player adjust both, adds checkpoint select so any part of the game can be practiced, and adds extra edit for the biggest arsenal of power-ups in any Gradius game.

I would disagree that the SNES port does better design-wise, rather than just cutting content, reducing difficulty, or imitating Gradius II.

The SNES Stage 1: Desert has some cosmetic differences like the added background layer, but the only gameplay change it makes is... removing the sand lion enemy type. Was anyone playing that stage in the arcade and saying, "If only the sand lions weren't there! The game would be fun then!"

Stage 4: Moai loses the Moai spawners and miniboss, and replaces the boss with one like Gradius II's, except with two faces instead of three.

Stage 5: Fire has fireballs that split into destructible smaller balls instead of indestructible suicide bullets. No need to dodge, just shoot everything. The huge Ghidorah-looking miniboss is taken out.

Stage 7: High Speed is reiterated from Gradius II, with a new boss. The arcade Gradius III had a different take on high speed, first with the chase-view stage, then with an escape sequence at the end of the game.

Stage 8: Boss Rush is short one boss (Tetran).

Stage 9: Base omits various traps and scenarios. No blasting your way in. No mini-walkers. No rotating lasers. No flickering lights. No invincible bouncing balls. The shadow gear is replaced with a pair of crab-like machines similar to Gradius II's, and they can be blown up.

The cell stage is now moved to the end of the game so it can stand in for the deleted biological section of the arcade version's finale. Stage 10: Cell accordingly loses its original boss in place of the arcade game's final boss (such as he is). There's no final escape sequence anymore, so the game just ends.

I can't think of any differences in the other three stages that aren't negligible.

Arcade version also has Reduce if you choose Edit mode, but everyone always chooses the force field.

Because Reduce in SNES version gives you 2 hit shield and Reduce in Arcade gives you nothing except very high rank.

The SNES type of Reduce is one of the power-ups the PS2 extra edit adds, under the name Reduce II.

[Sumez]

I would disagree that the SNES port does better design-wise, rather than just cutting content, reducing difficulty, or imitating Gradius II.

All three obvious ways to improve on G3's deisgn

I don't mean SNES G3 makes Arcade G3 obsolete, they are clearly entirely different games, and I respect anyone who can make it through a single loop of the arcade game. At the end of the day, I just like the SNES one a lot better.

[Despatche]

Cutting actual content isn't a good thing in a game that isn't really concerned with balance or pacing anyway, and III already apes II enough.

[Perikles]

I would imagine that most of the omitted content was due to the hardware concerns - I've problems envisioning how the game would run with the large moai spawners or the colossal boss in the cell stage.

Some of the other changes were for the better gameplay-wise in my opinion. I'm pretty sure that everyone who sheds a tear for the missing cube rush never lost a dozen lives in a row to it. The cell walls at the end of the arcade game are egregiously finicky (thanks to the support of the organic blobs with criminally large hitboxes), so are some of the traps (like the laser beams that are unaffected by the slowdowns which means that you can immure yourself if you're not careful). The final escape sequence in the arcade game is incredibly superfluous.

[Despatche]

I think not having a Mode 7 heavy 3D stage was a super obvious missed opportunity. People definitely liked those stages, because Konami made an entire game out of it.

Cubes, cells, and traps can be fixed though. Should be fixed, even; I'd pay good money for Gradius III Black Label. The SFC version tries to be this, but it ends up a very different game.

Honestly, I'm more worried about Gradius IV's cell stage on higher loops, and the weird weapons. Now there's a game that could use a revised version, because it's mostly very good.

[Kobayashi]

My favorite version is the Playstation 2, because it's very close to the arcade version, but with the possibility of turning off the slowdowns of the original, something that particularly pleased me greatly. I also like the SNES version, despite the graphic downgrades and the exaggerated slowdowns (that make the game much easier). Even with these problems I consider Gradius III one of the best shmups available for Nintendo's 16-bit console.

[DMoney]

The arcade version is better and definitely more brutal, you have to pretty much be a GOD to not die. The SNES version is very nostalgic to me because I grew up playing it, so I'm biased. Have not yet played the PS2 version...maybe I should pick that up?

[Goompaolo9500]

I don't like the konami code.

That moment you want to restart a stage in Gradius III for the SNES. Konami Code inputted, life lost. Opposite with Star Fox 64 with just pausing and restarting the course.