Shmups education!

[Maran]

TL;DR Which three games do you feel were pivotal for the overall progression of the shmup genre. Which games must I play to understand the development over the last decade or so and to get the best taste of the broad spectrum of shmups now available to us.

Hi guys,

So a month ago I decided to drop everything I had going on in my life work wise and focus on my dream of becoming an indie game developer with my first project being a shmup. At the ripe age of 32 I felt it was now or never.

"Well good for you but why should I care?"

That's a good question! The thing is that shmups are the genre that I've enjoyed my whole life. I grew up on Silk Worm on the Amiga, Armalyte and friends on the C64 followed by the highlights of my youth Raptor and especially Tyrian on PC. After that I didn't pay much attention until I discovered Jamestown and fell in love with the pixely graphics and fun gameplay.

"Thanks for the history lesson but I still don't see why you are telling me?"

I'm getting there hold on! So I just discovered there is a whole world of shmup's out there I never heard of ranging from casual euroshmups to hardcore danmaku's. To develop I good shmup I feel like I first need to really dive in and understand what the genre has to offer and what really makes it tick.

I've been trying to catch up by playing some more shmups (so far Blazing Star and Crimzon Clover have been really really fun) but I need some more recommendations.

My question for all you guys:

Which three games do you feel were pivotal for the overall progression of the shmup genre. Which games must I play to understand the development over the last decade or so and to get the best taste of the broad spectrum of shmups now available to us.

Extra kudos if you can recommend games I can actually play on systems I own (PS Vita, PS4, Nintendo Switch, PC or an emulator).

I've also been working on a list of 'Core rules' that I think my shmup should adhere too based on the games I've played so far. This is personal but if you feel there is something that should absolutely go on there, or should absolutely be removed let me know. You can view them by opening the spoiler below.

Spoiler

Art
- Large bullets that are distinct from the bullets the player is shooting
- Dynamic backgrounds and various things to look at without drawing too much attention away from bullets.
-Explosions should never be in the way of the bullets; bullets should always been drawn over the explosions and if possible explosions and bullets should not blend colorwise.
- As a general rule small ships should die fast, larger ships should be beefer. This way players will know on the first play through how much time a ship will take.
- Enemy ship designs should have some thought behind it. For instance If a small ship shoots a giant laser then how is it getting the energy? Small ships should have lower output weapons. Unless perhaps they are -grounded on a space station etc. Every design should make sense in some way or other.
- Make it clear where the player’s hitbox is

Animation
- Bullet impacts on enemy’s should be ‘felt’. Particles flying of the ships, ship flashing white, bullet breaking up etc.
- Ship animation should be smooth when steering left and right.
- Ship should interact with the world around it. If it flies through a cloud, perhaps the cloud swirls with it.
- Starting a level, ending a level and engaging bosses should all have a satisfying animation to go with to set the mood for each stage.

Gameplay
- Player should feel all-powerful at all times
- Player should have a very small hit box
- Player should be able to select a weapon (per level / per run?)
- Player should be able to charge a weapon shot
- Player should have a chance of weapon upgrades during play
- Player should have a chance of getting extra lives during play
- Gameplay should never be paused for anything outside of the player’s power
- Player should always be playing if possible; for instance if there is going to be some kind of reward selection at the end of a stage it should preferable happen from right within the level by navigating the player a certain way.
- Levels should be almost fully deterministic so they can be learned to do well.
- Bosses should not just be bullet sponges; they should be designed with tactics in mind.
- There should be a good mix of very high intensive and ‘cooldown’ areas of a level so that players can relax.
- There should be a good mix of popcorn enemies and larger more powerful enemies.
- Enemies should not appear behind the player and definitely shoot from behind the player.
- There should always be a way to hit a enemy regardless of where it is on the screen.
- There should be an interesting scoring system in place.
- The scoring system should not reduce the overall fun of the game.

Thanks!

[Shepardus]

If you haven't seen it already, start with BulletMagnet's excellent writeup: http://www.racketboy.com/retro/shooters ... d-shooters

If you have, read it again anyway, it's good stuff. It's several years old now so it doesn't include all the latest but it's still fully relevant.

[Maran]

If you haven't seen it already, start with BulletMagnet's excellent writeup: http://www.racketboy.com/retro/shooters ... d-shooters

Awesome, just what I'm looking for, will read it. Thanks!

[qmish]

what about Catstronaut's
https://catstronaut.wordpress.com/2013/ ... -shooters/ and https://catstronaut.wordpress.com/2015/ ... -shooters/

[Maran]

what about Catstronaut's
https://catstronaut.wordpress.com/2013/ ... -shooters/ and https://catstronaut.wordpress.com/2015/ ... -shooters/

Great, added to the reading list!

[Deadliar]

Player should feel all-powerful at all times

There's a really important split to point out here. It's probably a bit more complicated, but I'm gonna say that a shmup can make a player feel really good in three ways.

TLDR
based on experience with engaging shmups, you want to make the player feel like one of these:
-Inferior but badass for that exact reason
-Superior but only under the right circumstances/with the right skills
-If making things lopsided is not an option, simply making enemies feel personal and dramatic adds alot (and can work with the above too)

Long version:

Spoiler

If the player is very notably less powerful than the enemies/bosses, as long as said enemies/bosses don't take too long to kill, it makes the player feel great about beating any challenge in the game. The badass feeling when you beat something stronger than you is pretty natural and alot of shmups can nail this (Einhander is probably the most dramatic example as it even has a story to go with this)

-If a player is presented as near-equally powerful as the enemies, or there isn't really a distinction to be made, a shmup starts lacking any sense of empowerment or coolness. To make up for this, many developers basically made alot of the encounters in the game personal. Examples can include Any kind of doppelganger fight,beam duels like in darius and metal black, rematches against enemies and so on. (A good, clean example here would be Judgment Silversword and its Mitsurugi bosses. You're gonna want to win against this guy simply because he keeps fighting you, same can be said abour Rapid hero. Basically you want the game to be flashy and provoke the player.)

-The third and probably least common way to handle this is to make the player potentially incredibly powerful, but only under the right circumstances. While feeling like an underpowered survivor like in the first type is great, just decimating or overpowering enemies is also very satisfying, but again, under the right, mechanically non-overpowered conditions. (There's alot of examples to list here. You basically want the player to be only conditionally overpowered. From Giga Wing's reflecting, ESP Ra. De.'s insane bombs, or even gradius games, provided you power up without dying, these are all examples of a player being partially overpowered. Hellsinker is perhaps the most notable example for this, as it gives you several entire systems to bypass or nullify enemy attacks as well as deal tons of damage, but it requires mechanical mastery)

[Maran]

Player should feel all-powerful at all times

There's a really important split to point out here. It's probably a bit more complicated, but I'm gonna say that a shmup can make a player feel really good in three ways.

-If the player is very notably less powerful than the enemies/bosses, as long as said enemies/bosses don't take too long to kill, it makes the player feel great about beating any challenge in the game. The badass feeling when you beat something stronger than you is pretty natural and alot of shmups can nail this (Einhander is probably the most dramatic example as it even has a story to go with this)

-If a player is presented as near-equally powerful as the enemies, or there isn't really a distinction to be made, a shmup starts lacking any sense of empowerment or coolness. To make up for this, many developers basically made alot of the encounters in the game personal. Examples can include Any kind of doppelganger fight,beam duels like in darius and metal black, rematches against enemies and so on. (A good, clean example here would be Judgment Silversword and its Mitsurugi bosses. You're gonna want to win against this guy simply because he keeps fighting you, same can be said abour Rapid hero)

-The third and probably least commom way to handle this is to make the player potentially incredibly powerful, but only under the right circumstances. While feeling like an underpowered survivor like in the first type is great, just decimating or overpowering enemies is also very satisfying, but again, under the right, mechanically non-overpowered conditions. (There's alot of examples to list here. You basically want the player to be only conditionally overpowered. From Giga Wing's reflecting, ESP Ra. De.'s insane bombs, or even gradius games, provided you power up without dying, these are all examples of a player being partially overpowered. Hellsinker is perhaps the most notable example for this, as it gives you several entire systems to bypass or nullify enemy attacks as well as deal tons of damage, but it requires mechanical mastery)

I agree that this is mostly a balance thing. The way I currently envision it is by having three enemy types:

1. Popcorn that dies within 1 or 2 hits. (You are always stronger then these)
2. Regular enemies that spawn less but that take 2 or 3 seconds to kill and require you to get in their line of fire to kill them. (You are about the same strength)
3. Bosses which require you to learn their attack patterns and have multiple stages; I reckon these should take you between 1 and 2 minutes to kill (You are always weaker then these).

I'm hoping having a mix like this will keep you feeling powerful by challenging you in different ways.

[Deadliar]

1. Popcorn that dies within 1 or 2 hits. (You are always stronger then these)
2. Regular enemies that spawn less but that take 2 or 3 seconds to kill and require you to get in their line of fire to kill them. (You are about the same strength)
3. Bosses which require you to learn their attack patterns and have multiple stages; I reckon these should take you between 1 and 2 minutes to kill (You are always weaker then these).

Remember, while gameplay mechanics and balancing is what ultimately makes a game fun or unfun (and it is usually structured exactly like you described it), it also takes a good presentation to make a shmup appealing to the players.

The gist of it is that there's a big difference between how the player is and how the player feels. Most games are going to have powerful bosses and selections of weak and not-so-weak enemies, but the player can feel like a force of nature or a cornered rat entirely based on how things are presented (and how this ties with the raw mechanics of the game)

[chum]

Which three games do you feel were pivotal for the overall progression of the shmup genre.

Gradius/Hishouzame/Dodonpachi try those. obviously there is no correct answer though

[Maran]

1. Popcorn that dies within 1 or 2 hits. (You are always stronger then these)
2. Regular enemies that spawn less but that take 2 or 3 seconds to kill and require you to get in their line of fire to kill them. (You are about the same strength)
3. Bosses which require you to learn their attack patterns and have multiple stages; I reckon these should take you between 1 and 2 minutes to kill (You are always weaker then these).

Remember, while gameplay mechanics and balancing is what ultimately makes a game fun or unfun (and it is usually structured exactly like you described it), it also takes a good presentation to make a shmup appealing to the players.

The gist of it is that there's a big difference between how the player is and how the player feels. Most games are going to have powerful bosses and selections of weak and not-so-weak enemies, but the player can feel like a force of nature or a cornered rat entirely based on how things are presented (and how this ties with the raw mechanics of the game)

Agreed, that's why I will prototype until I get the 'feel' down

Which three games do you feel were pivotal for the overall progression of the shmup genre.

Gradius/Hishouzame/Dodonpachi try those. obviously there is no correct answer though

Is this ok for Dodonpachi

[qmish]

In perfect way, i guess DoDonPachi should be played starting from earliest games, chronologically, to compare evolution and changes.

[OmegaFlareX]

TL;DR Which three games do you feel were pivotal for the overall progression of the shmup genre.

Just as far as verts go, it's a lot more than 3:

- Space Invaders
- Xevious
- Hishouzame
- Raiden
- V-V/Batsugun
- Battle Garegga/DonPachi
- DoDonpachi
- Giga Wing
- Cave PGM (DDP DOJ/ESPGaluda/Ketsui)
- Mushihimesama/Futari

Maybe someone more insightful than me can narrow it down. Really, just get a MAME setup going, grab a complete list from here and explore on your own. There are a ton of good games worth playing.

[MintyTheCat]

TL;DR Which three games do you feel were pivotal for the overall progression of the shmup genre.

Just as far as verts go, it's a lot more than 3:

- Space Invaders
- Xevious
- Hishouzame
- Raiden
- V-V/Batsugun
- Battle Garegga/DonPachi
- DoDonpachi
- Giga Wing
- Cave PGM (DDP DOJ/ESPGaluda/Ketsui)
- Mushihimesama/Futari

Maybe someone more insightful than me can narrow it down. Really, just get a MAME setup going, grab a complete list from here and explore on your own. There are a ton of good games worth playing.

I would add ikaruga to the list for its 'light' and 'dark' mechanic.

[Immryr]

Is this ok for Dodonpachi

nah that is a different game. set yourself up with MAME and get the original dodonpachi on that.

[qmish]

Don't forget score attack / caravan style stgs

[_rm_]

If i had to pick only 3, i guess i would go with these:

- Xevious (defined the "global" look of what became the standard for the genre)
- Batsugun or Donpachi (the beggining of the bullet hell sub-genre)
- Dodonpachi DOJ (a masterpiece in terms of sprites, boss fighting, superb OST; scoring, everything )

[qmish]

Better be pick 3 from each "different school" / "subgenre".

[wizkid]

CCWI had more impact on literature than Hamlet.

[MintyTheCat]

Don't forget score attack / caravan style stgs

RECCA needs to be there then along with Star Soldier but then there are ties to Xevious there too. I think three is too small a sample.

[qmish]

Speaking of stages sequence, always was amazed by RayForce's approach where on many stages you see hints of next stages, making your adventure more seamless.

[ZacharyB]

Rayforce is my number-one pick for how to do a story right in a shmup.

[Maran]

Thank you so much for all the recommendations; I'm trying to see which ones I can actually play and which ones I need to watch being played on Youtube but so far it's been really helpful

[davyK]

Galaga, Gradius, DoDonPachi.

All run great on MAME.

Galaga could be replaced with Xevious I suppose.

[Shepardus]

TL;DR Which three games do you feel were pivotal for the overall progression of the shmup genre. Which games must I play to understand the development over the last decade or so and to get the best taste of the broad spectrum of shmups now available to us.

What three games would be most educational to you depends on what exactly you want to learn. There's three questions I see here:

• "pivotal for the overall progression of the shmup genre"
• "understand the development over the last decade or so"
• "best taste of the broad spectrum of shmups now available to us"

and I think the answer is different for each. Some shmups that were highly influential when they were released are no longer in vogue, and "the broad spectrum of shmups now available to us" includes plenty of games that, for better or worse, fly in the face of the general trends of the past decade.

Some critique for your "core rules" list:

- Player should feel all-powerful at all times

This helps in many shmups, but I don't think it should be a hard rule. Games like R-Type and X-Multiply benefit from making players feel a little vulnerable, given the atmosphere they go for. I'd argue that clawing your way back up after dying in Gradius is similar. After all, do you really feel all-powerful if you're that way all the time?

- Player should have a very small hit box

This is the norm nowadays especially with bullet hell/danmaku shooters, but I don't think this should be taken for granted. Your hitbox and movement speed should be informed by the types of movement you want the player to be making. Just don't make your hitbox larger than the visible sprite, that's just evil.

- Player should be able to select a weapon (per level / per run?)
- Player should be able to charge a weapon shot
- Player should have a chance of weapon upgrades during play
- Player should have a chance of getting extra lives during play

I think these are too prescriptive. They're common, tried-and-true mechanics, yes, but they have little bearing on what makes a shmup "shmup-like" or good. Plenty of great shmups have gone one way or the other, and there's no reason why a shmup "should" have weapon upgrades or extends or charged weapons.

- Levels should be almost fully deterministic so they can be learned to do well.

Some people like RNG. I'm not one of them, but different people have different levels of tolerance for RNG. It also depends on where you're applying your RNG, i.e. on what boss you get, or what attacks an enemy makes, or how the bullets are aimed in a certain attack, etc. I think it's safe to say, though, that you should avoid RNG that screws over the player without any warning or countermeasure the player can take.

- Enemies should not appear behind the player and definitely shoot from behind the player.

Lots of people don't like this, but I think it's too limiting to say that you shouldn't ever spawn enemies from behind or allow them to shoot from behind. Enemies coming from behind are a lot more tolerable, for example, if you have some way to shoot behind yourself (see the Gradius series' tailgun, R-Type's Force Pod, the homing shots in some games, or the turning-around mechanic of Hyper Dyne Side Arms, Deathsmiles, and Dariusburst Chronicle Saviours).

- There should always be a way to hit a enemy regardless of where it is on the screen.

Again, being unable to shoot an enemy because it's at the wrong angle is a common frustration, but I don't think it necessitates giving the player such a versatile arsenal.

- There should be an interesting scoring system in place.
- The scoring system should not reduce the overall fun of the game.

I don't disagree with these, but I feel that "interesting" and "overall fun" are too vague to be useful. I personally like scoring systems to be simple and believe even the barebones "give points for killing enemies" can be enough with clever level design, but others really enjoy discovering and optimizing the little intricacies of multipliers and combos and resource management and whatnot. IMO you don't even have to have a scoring system at all if you don't feel like having one would benefit the game.

[Maran]

Thank you for your insights.

- Player should be able to select a weapon (per level / per run?)
- Player should be able to charge a weapon shot
- Player should have a chance of weapon upgrades during play
- Player should have a chance of getting extra lives during play

I removed these from a later draft as they were more about what I was planning to make and not as much general rules.

I don't disagree with these, but I feel that "interesting" and "overall fun" are too vague to be useful. I personally like scoring systems to be simple and believe even the barebones "give points for killing enemies" can be enough with clever level design, but others really enjoy discovering and optimizing the little intricacies of multipliers and combos and resource management and whatnot. IMO you don't even have to have a scoring system at all if you don't feel like having one would benefit the game.

For me a lot of the replay-ability comes from trying to improve my own skills and optimising how a level is played. I think that without score that's much harder to judge. But I agree that overall, in general, a score system might indeed not be needed.

- Enemies should not appear behind the player and definitely shoot from behind the player.

Lots of people don't like this, but I think it's too limiting to say that you shouldn't ever spawn enemies from behind or allow them to shoot from behind. Enemies coming from behind are a lot more tolerable, for example, if you have some way to shoot behind yourself (see the Gradius series' tailgun, R-Type's Force Pod, the homing shots in some games, or the turning-around mechanic of Hyper Dyne Side Arms, Deathsmiles, and Dariusburst Chronicle Saviours).

Yeah I've come back from this. As long as you give ample warning that is happening, it makes for more interesting gameplay.