Which SEGA shmups would you like to see on SEGA Forever?

[caffeinedreamer]

Hi folks, I'm the community manager for SEGA Forever. I've lurked here for many years, but now it's time to finally speak up!

I'd like to pick your brains on which SEGA shmups you'd most like to see on mobile as part of SEGA Forever. I'm also keen to hear which input methods you think work best for shmups on mobile, so I can relay that to our producers and dev team. We're currently improving our emulation core, so please try not to worry about that too much for the moment.

Here's a quick list I've put together (will add more as you reply):
Action Fighter (1986) [Master System]
Aerial Assault (1990) [Master System]
Astro Warrior (1986) [Master System]
Bio-Hazard Battle (1992) [Mega Drive/Genesis]
Blade Eagle (1988) [Master System]
Elemental Master (1990) [Mega Drive/Genesis]
Fantasy Zone (1986) [Master System]
Fantasy Zone II: The Tears of Opa-Opa (1987) [Master System]
Fantasy Zone Gear (1991) [Game Gear]
Galactic Protector (1988) [Mark III]
Satellite 7 (1985) [Mark III]
Scramble Spirits (1989) [Master System]
SDI: Strategic Defense Initiative AKA Global Defense (1987) [Master System]
Submarine Attack (1990) [Master System]
Super Thunder Blade (1988) [Mega Drive/Genesis]
Star Jacker (1983) [SG-1000]
Thunder Blade (1988) [Master System]
Thunder Force II (1989) [Mega Drive/Genesis]
Thunder Force III (1990) [Mega Drive/Genesis]
Thunder Force IV AKA Lightening Force: Quest for the Darkstar (1992) [Mega Drive/Genesis]
TransBot (1985) [Master System]
Zaxxon (1985) [SG-1000]

Have I missed any SEGA shmups? I haven't listed Saturn or Dreamcast titles as we will be porting them rather than emulating them (which takes a lot more time and bandwidth), and realistically the first few probably won't be shmups!

#SEGAForever

[crazyrexz]

if i can request from sega library, i want Ikaruga, the ikaruga i find long time ago in android is not playable.

[Mortificator]

Of the choices in your poll, Elemental Master, the Thunder Force series, and the Fantasy Zone series are definitely the games of the highest quality. I have to say that I'm not particularly interested in using Sega Forever, though.

One thing you may want to clarify is what you mean by a "Sega shmup." I doubt your purview is so wide as to include every one that was playable on Sega's consoles, but you don't seem to be limited only to games developed by Sega teams either; I see titles from Technosoft and Sunsoft in your list.

[Gespenst]

Thunder Force and Fantasy Zone series or riot

if i can request from sega library, i want Ikaruga, the ikaruga i find long time ago in android is not playable.

Sega had nothing to do with Ikaruga. You'd better ask Treasure for that.

[OmKol]

Obviously Thunder Force and Fantasy Zone but Fantasy Zone must be with autofire cause tap button on touchscreen can be annoying.

[drunkninja24]

One thing I would definitely suggest is to please, PLEASE include support for bluetooth and/or wired controllers

I mean, touch controls are okay for instant pick up and go, but I'd like to have the option to have actual controls when I have the opportunity to do so

[Sumez]

Thunder Force and Fantasy Zone series or riot
(...)
Sega had nothing to do with Ikaruga. You'd better ask Treasure for that.

Did Sega have anything to do with Thunder Force?

[tomwhite2004]

Did Sega have anything to do with Thunder Force?

Sega aquired the IP for all Technosofts games a little under a year ago.

[Shepardus]

Thunder Force and Fantasy Zone series or riot
(...)
Sega had nothing to do with Ikaruga. You'd better ask Treasure for that.

Did Sega have anything to do with Thunder Force?

They made Thunder Force VI (licensed by Technosoft) and they currently own the rights to the Thunder Force IP. Sega published the original arcade versions of Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga, as well as the Dreamcast port of Ikaruga, but I doubt they were involved in the more recent ports of those games or that they currently own the rights to those games. Besides, the opening post says:

I haven't listed Saturn or Dreamcast titles as we will be porting them rather than emulating them (which takes a lot more time and bandwidth), and realistically the first few probably won't be shmups!

[GSK]

We're currently improving our emulation core, so please try not to worry about that too much for the moment.

I don't mean to be a jerk about this but you can't launch with emulation as obviously and immediately poor as you did and then just expect people to take it on faith that it's going to improve--the people on this forum aren't going to want to play these games on a phone to begin with, let alone at 30FPS with circa-2001 audio emulation, so until you demonstrate an acceptable level of emulation they probably aren't going to humour you.

In answer to your question: the Fantasy Zone series (where's the original FZ on your list?), the Thunder Force series, Elemental Master and maybe Biohazard Battle are the only games from that list that anyone, Sega diehards included, are really going to care about.

Virtual buttons/d-pad are never a good substitute but you're not going to come up with anything better, so don't bother tooling with it too much. Add autofire if it's not already implemented, I guess.

[dan76]

Sega.. Oh Sega. You guys need to get porting you lightgun / rail shooters. Want a license to print money? How about a saturn / dreamcast mini. Where's Outrun 3, HOTD 5. I know this isn't relevant but someone's gotta say something!

[Sumez]

No one would buy a "Saturn Mini". What games would it even have?

[Van_Artic]

Sega.. Oh Sega. You guys need to get porting you lightgun / rail shooters. Want a license to print money? How about a saturn / dreamcast mini. Where's Outrun 3, HOTD 5. I know this isn't relevant but someone's gotta say something!

with how shitty the saturn emulation still is i wouldnt wanna see an attempt at that from a mile away, no thanks

No one would buy a "Saturn Mini". What games would it even have?

this a million times; an average gamer (the kind of market you'd sell a "mini" console for) remembers it for VF2, panzer dragoon and nights, thats it

[Kiken]

Whip Rush and Arrow Flash are missing from the list.

As others have stated, Techno Soft IPs should definitely be included. Even though Herzog Zwei isn't a shmup per se, it should also be considered (I'm going to assume that digital manuals will be included).

[caffeinedreamer]

Thanks for the feedback so far everyone!

One thing you may want to clarify is what you mean by a "Sega shmup." I doubt your purview is so wide as to include every one that was playable on Sega's consoles, but you don't seem to be limited only to games developed by Sega teams either; I see titles from Technosoft and Sunsoft in your list.

I've removed Super Fantasy Zone for now, until I'm sure we have the license to use it - that was the Sunsoft game you were referring to, right? As tomwhite2004 mentioned, we recently bought the rights to Technosoft's back catalogue. Should have explained that - apologies!

One thing I would definitely suggest is to please, PLEASE include support for bluetooth and/or wired controllers
I mean, touch controls are okay for instant pick up and go, but I'd like to have the option to have actual controls when I have the opportunity to do so

Bluetooth support is included with all SEGA Forever titles.

I don't mean to be a jerk about this but you can't launch with emulation as obviously and immediately poor as you did and then just expect people to take it on faith that it's going to improve--the people on this forum aren't going to want to play these games on a phone to begin with, let alone at 30FPS with circa-2001 audio emulation, so until you demonstrate an acceptable level of emulation they probably aren't going to humour you.

Virtual buttons/d-pad are never a good substitute but you're not going to come up with anything better, so don't bother tooling with it too much. Add autofire if it's not already implemented, I guess.

Hey GSK, the mobile environment doesn't work quite the same as others. Mobile games have to be constantly updated to support new OS versions, and we're going to keep updating all SEGA Forever titles indefinitely. If you look at the Google Play and App Store reviews you'll find most people have had no trouble with emulation at all, but I'll agree with you personally that it's not up to the standard I'd like. As CM there is very little I can do about this but communicate to you that we've taken feedback very seriously, and most of our work at the moment is going into improving the emulation considerably. We're adding fully remappable controls and buttons in the next few months, as well as graphical filter options too.

Sega.. Oh Sega. You guys need to get porting you lightgun / rail shooters. Want a license to print money? How about a saturn / dreamcast mini. Where's Outrun 3, HOTD 5. I know this isn't relevant but someone's gotta say something!

I'm pushing for Virtua Cop and The House of The Dead games for SEGA Forever. As I'm in the mobile department there's not much I can do about SEGA mini systems (or non-mobile sequels), but Licensing are fully aware of the demand.

Whip Rush and Arrow Flash are missing from the list.

As others have stated, Techno Soft IPs should definitely be included. Even though Herzog Zwei isn't a shmup per se, it should also be considered (I'm going to assume that digital manuals will be included).

All Mega Drive/Genesis Technosoft games should make their way across eventually.

Thanks for the recommendations, just double-checking we have the license as those games were developed by VIC Tokai and I.T.L respectively.

[MathU]

None at all, regretfully. Stop taking a dump on good games with cell phone ports please. Dedicated handheld video game systems still exist.

[caffeinedreamer]

None at all, regretfully. Stop taking a dump on good games with cell phone ports please. Dedicated handheld video game systems still exist.

Hey MathU. Unfortunately not everyone can afford dedicated systems for gaming worldwide, but most people do have smartphones these days. Some people also live in situations where they are not able to have dedicated gaming systems at home due to time and/or living arrangement constraints.

Many people already emulate the games they want to play on their phones. However, most people don't want to go through the bother of setting it up, which often involves going to sites loaded with spyware and adware; not to mention the fact that you're really not legally meant to emulate games unless you've dumped the ROMs yourself.

The structure of SEGA Forever titles means that they are free to play, with ads when you first load the game and use save states. This means anyone, anywhere with a smartphone can play these titles. For those who can afford to pay for the games, a $1.99 in-app purchase removes the ads.

While we are core gamers, the vast majority of consumers are not. However, as the most vocal players, we want to make sure core gamers are as heard, which is why I'm here. I'm trying to ensure these games can be brought to as many people as possible, as well as possible.

[Squire Grooktook]

Elemental Master is better than every Thunderforce game combined.

[Necronom]

@caffeinedreamer

First things first:

We're adding fully remappable controls and buttons in the next few months, as well as graphical filter options too.

Woohoo! Thanks in advance

Regarding the controls/input methods:
Imho horizontal shmups like Thunder Force or Steel Empire work well enough on touch devices with drag controls and autofire. A very good example for this is the mobile port of Darius Burst - works great, plays great, you can take it as a reference.

What I would also love to see is more options, even if they weren't available in the original game. I absolutely love how M2 handled the Megadrive ports on the 3DS, adding easy modes (Streets of Rage), hacks (Altered Beast) and even additional modes (Fantasy Zone II) for the quick on the go run. Mobile gaming done right...reference number 2

Last but not least, thanks for pushing for mobile ports of lightgun / rail shooters...I would definitely buy a smoothly running mobile port of House of the Dead 3 and Panzer Dragoon!

Thanks for listening and the comments. I'm looking forward to the updates.

[Doctor Butler]

One thing that I'm a bit unclear on about Sega Forever - is it limited to just Sega owned IPs, or can we expect to see non-Sega games that are generally viewed as being "Sega games", like Power Stone?

Also are there any plans for non-console games down the line?

[caffeinedreamer]

if i can request from sega library, i want Ikaruga, the ikaruga i find long time ago in android is not playable.

I will at least put this idea forward as I believe we have good relations with Treasure.

Regarding the controls/input methods:
Imho horizontal shmups like Thunder Force or Steel Empire work well enough on touch devices with drag controls and autofire. A very good example for this is the mobile port of Darius Burst - works great, plays great, you can take it as a reference.

What I would also love to see is more options, even if they weren't available in the original game. I absolutely love how M2 handled the Megadrive ports on the 3DS, adding easy modes (Streets of Rage), hacks (Altered Beast) and even additional modes (Fantasy Zone II) for the quick on the go run. Mobile gaming done right...reference number 2

Last but not least, thanks for pushing for mobile ports of lightgun / rail shooters...I would definitely buy a smoothly running mobile port of House of the Dead 3 and Panzer Dragoon!

M2 are hands-down the kings of ports and emulation; you have no argument from me. I love their work going back to their Game Gear ports in the early days. They also made wireless play work in a Game Gear Virtual Console game years before Nintendo were able to do the same with a few Game Boy titles.

I've passed on your autofire recommendation, and will do the same for drag controls!

For the moment we're going the emulation route with all consoles but Saturn and Dreamcast. This means we can't really implement new features unless we hack the ROMs. Not impossible though - we would like to work with fan-translators in the future. As ports, we'll have more ability to add features to Saturn and Dreamcast titles.

Panzer Dragoon (and Zwei) are easily the most requested Saturn games at the moment. I'm interested in us bringing gun games to SEGA Forever too - I think they'd work really well on mobile.

One thing that I'm a bit unclear on about Sega Forever - is it limited to just Sega owned IPs, or can we expect to see non-Sega games that are generally viewed as being "Sega games", like Power Stone?

Also are there any plans for non-console games down the line?

For the moment we are only looking at SEGA titles for SEGA Forever, as we own most of the licenses and IPs involves with them. Working with other developers and publishers certainly isn't off the cards; we just have to prove the model works first.

By non-console games do you mean post-hardware SEGA games like Super Monkey Ball? If so, it's a possibility, but we're focusing on SG-1000 to Dreamcast for now.

[Mortificator]

I believe he means arcade games. System 16, Model 2, and the like.

[caffeinedreamer]

I believe he means arcade games. System 16, Model 2, and the like.

Ah, gotcha. We're looking into arcade support, but we've only confirmed SG-1000, Master System, Mega Drive, Game Gear, Saturn, and Dreamcast for the moment.

Are there are any SEGA shmups that come to mind that were arcade-exclusive?

[OmegaFlareX]

Any chance of the Toaplan MD ports? No one is sure who owns the rights to their library, though.

Truxton, Fire Shark, Slap Fight, and Zero Wing would be awesome.

e: Thunder Force Gold Pack 2 for the Saturn would be ideal because the slowdown is gone in TF4. Also Hyper Duel and Blast Wind!

e2: Arcade-exclusive if you don't count EU computer ports:
Invinco
Space Trek
Astro Blaster
Space Odyssey
Tactician
Commando (yes, SEGA Commando is an earlier, different game)
Razzmatazz
Future Spy
4-D Warriors (dev by Coreland)
Repulse (dev by Crux, cool game!)
Brain (dev by Coreland)
Gardia (dev by Coreland, saw a streamer play this, cool game!)
Rafflesia (dev by Coreland)
Sonic Boom
Aurial (dev by Westone[!], run-n-gun)

I might have missed some, as a) I'm kinda picky about what I consider a shmup and b) I just eyeballed the "Manufacturer" value in MAMEUI as I scrolled down my shmup list, and included anything that said SEGA.

[o.pwuaioc]

If adding Elemental Master will drop its price on ebay, I'm all for it.

[Xyga]

Emmental Munster

[wizkid]

can i play on a windows phone?

[gray117]

It wasn't the best start for this initiative, but you got to love the sentiment. Plus as long as this isn't allowed to just die-off, and things keep getting worked on, updated and maintained I think it's a lovely idea ...(I'd love to see additional background interviews/art and documentation stuff eventually added, perhaps even some new retrospectives made with key staff before they disappear... if there was a way to surface some kind of editorial/produced content it could incorporate lists / articles that served to highlight releases contained within the forever initiative... + community polls like this

Back more on topic:

I'm going to echo Thunderforce series (iv in particular) and fantasy zone from this list. Elemental master is a good game, I would want it, but can't help feeling it's appeal is definitely niche, and not of great historical importance.

I don't think much else on the list really resonates - and the mind starts shifting towards other companies on your platform or slight genre shifts (like thunderblade / galaxy fight which made greater impacts, especially around launch)... which is probably off topic for now... So yes, aside from as much as possible please, perhaps a phase 2 (or whatever) whereby you setup a means to engage and canvas fan interest in combination with editorial content to not only determine what 3rd party games maybe worth pursuing, but also to encourage engagement with existing/new communities.

As a fan I always enjoyed your megadrive collections, and given the times, a straight forward good collection, box on a shelf product, for the right price, was understandably - at least in europe - the best option. Now with the games being free or at least super cheap I do wonder if perhaps something kind of app/channel that released a game, say, twice a month, for a super low price, along with a little editorial feature/video, would engage more people in longer term, been more effective for the sega brand, and help to show why these old games are so significant. You'd have to think that as these surfaced it would help engagement and rely less upon just the in-the-know-nostalgic-oldies.

Who knows perhaps in time it will help the (American) viability of a megadrive mini... sorry ... genesis mini...

[dan76]

Sega.. Oh Sega. You guys need to get porting you lightgun / rail shooters. Want a license to print money? How about a saturn / dreamcast mini. Where's Outrun 3, HOTD 5. I know this isn't relevant but someone's gotta say something!

I'm pushing for Virtua Cop and The House of The Dead games for SEGA Forever. As I'm in the mobile department there's not much I can do about SEGA mini systems (or non-mobile sequels), but Licensing are fully aware of the demand.

That's good to know!
With regards to controls. Guess you've played the Cave mobile ports? I don't really play many games on my ipad as I don't like the control method but the Cave ones were done fairly well. The important thing is that your finger shouldn't have to be placed on what you're controlling. This can be applied to any rail shooters if they were ever to be ported. Namco's Starblade sufferers from this. Wherever you finger is is where the crosshairs are, but it obscures what you want to shoot.

With a shmup you need to see the ship to dodge. Maybe it's obvious but outside of Espgaluda 2 I've not played much.

[evil_ash_xero]

Star Jacker? What a title!