XRGB-mini Framemeister

[FBX]

Has anyone been able to get scanlines to line up correctly while displaying 720p on a 768p display? I'm having issues with this and can't seem to get it right.

The mismatch in native resolution is always going to make them look poor quality. If they don't look right using my 720 profiles, they never will.

[Fudoh]

If they don't look right using my 720 profiles, they never will.

Unless one creates a 768p output profile using an underscanned 3x integer zoom (similar to what the 4x profiles do on a 1080p output).

[FBX]

If they don't look right using my 720 profiles, they never will.

Unless one creates a 768p output profile using an underscanned 3x integer zoom (similar to what the 4x profiles do on a 1080p output).

But isn't the signal still stretched from 720 to 768? It likely cannot be counteracted because of the uneven stretch.

[Fudoh]

No, you create an output profile using the WXGA output from the Mini (768p). This way you disable the rescaling on the TV's side. You then create a 3x integer scaled 720p image - just as you would with your 1080p profiles (e.g. 4x -> 960p inside a 1080p frame). Different numbers, same concept.

[FBX]

No, you create an output profile using the WXGA output from the Mini (768p).

Ah this is what I was missing. I kept thinking we were stuck with 720p.

At any rate, creating the 3x scale profile isn't exactly easy. One of these years I'll make a video showing the process I go through to dial it in.

[Grimakis]

Hi,

So I've got the Framemeister frustrations with the resolution switching, of course. Trying to play Resident Evil 2 on N64 is nigh impossible. I've toyed with Sync_Time but to no avail.

What are my options? I thought about getting some kind of LineDoubler to convert to 480p, and then have that sent to the Framemeister, but the Framemeister doesn't handle 480p as well as 240p.

Best,
Grimakis

[Kagigod]

Hi,

So I've got the Framemeister frustrations with the resolution switching, of course. Trying to play Resident Evil 2 on N64 is nigh impossible. I've toyed with Sync_Time but to no avail.

What are my options? I thought about getting some kind of LineDoubler to convert to 480p, and then have that sent to the Framemeister, but the Framemeister doesn't handle 480p as well as 240p.

Best,
Grimakis

Try with SYNC_SET -> SYNC_MODE set to OFF, you'll get some frame stutter but, at least on my snes, res switching seems to be way faster

[EnragedWhale]

Hi,

So I've got the Framemeister frustrations with the resolution switching, of course. Trying to play Resident Evil 2 on N64 is nigh impossible. I've toyed with Sync_Time but to no avail.

What are my options? I thought about getting some kind of LineDoubler to convert to 480p, and then have that sent to the Framemeister, but the Framemeister doesn't handle 480p as well as 240p.

Best,
Grimakis

Take out your N64 expansion pak and it'll stop switching resolutions. Not an ideal solution I know but it'll at least be playable.

[FBX]

Hi,

So I've got the Framemeister frustrations with the resolution switching, of course. Trying to play Resident Evil 2 on N64 is nigh impossible. I've toyed with Sync_Time but to no avail.

What are my options? I thought about getting some kind of LineDoubler to convert to 480p, and then have that sent to the Framemeister, but the Framemeister doesn't handle 480p as well as 240p.

Best,
Grimakis

Take out your N64 expansion pak and it'll stop switching resolutions. Not an ideal solution I know but it'll at least be playable.

^
This. RE2 on the N64 with the expansion pak is unplayable on the Framemeister. Ideally you'd want the UltraHDMI mod so you don't have to worry about it. My own opinion is RE2 is better on the PS1 anyway. Too much gets compressed down in the N64 cart version.

[Grimakis]

Is there an Extron unit that will take my N64 RGB 15KHz signal that switches between 480i and 240p, and then downscale it to 240p so the Framemeister doesnt have issues with the switching?

[Jdandersson]

Hi,
Yesterday I got my framemeister, I have a problem with it tough. It doesn't output sound. I have tried both dvi and hdmi with a few hdmi cables, but nothing. I bought the euscart version directly from Solaris.

My setup:
Bandridge automatic 5 outputs
NES rgb modded
Snes mini rgb modded
Ps1 rgb
GameCube region free pal with rgb
Genesis rgb
N64 rgb modded

Hdmi pass through
Nintendo switch

All of my rgb cables are from retrogamingcables

I don't even get sound from Nintendo switch through the framemeister.

Any ideas?

[BuckoA51]

Is there an Extron unit that will take my N64 RGB 15KHz signal that switches between 480i and 240p, and then downscale it to 240p so the Framemeister doesnt have issues with the switching?

No. Even if such a device existed, you'd still have the issue of the refresh rate changing...

[Fudoh]

Is there an Extron unit that will take my N64 RGB 15KHz signal that switches between 480i and 240p, and then downscale it to 240p so the Framemeister doesnt have issues with the switching?

you're probably thinking of the interfaces which allow you to display 480i as 240p on a CRT. Unfortunately these don't work on digital processors.

[ZellSF]

Hi,
Yesterday I got my framemeister, I have a problem with it tough. It doesn't output sound. I have tried both dvi and hdmi with a few hdmi cables, but nothing. I bought the euscart version directly from Solaris.

My setup:
Bandridge automatic 5 outputs
NES rgb modded
Snes mini rgb modded
Ps1 rgb
GameCube region free pal with rgb
Genesis rgb
N64 rgb modded

Hdmi pass through
Nintendo switch

All of my rgb cables are from retrogamingcables

I don't even get sound from Nintendo switch through the framemeister.

Any ideas?

Obvious questions (that you should've supplied information about before me having to ask...):

1: Is the Switch set to stereo output? For testing set it to stereo output.
2: Will the Switch output sound when connected directly to the TV at the same HDMI input?
3: Is the volume turned up on the XRGB-mini?
4: Are the AUDIO_SET options correct on the XRGB-mini? You can choose where to get audio from, HDMI and RGB both may use separate analog inputs.

[Jdandersson]

Hi,
Yesterday I got my framemeister, I have a problem with it tough. It doesn't output sound. I have tried both dvi and hdmi with a few hdmi cables, but nothing. I bought the euscart version directly from Solaris.

My setup:
Bandridge automatic 5 outputs
NES rgb modded
Snes mini rgb modded
Ps1 rgb
GameCube region free pal with rgb
Genesis rgb
N64 rgb modded

Hdmi pass through
Nintendo switch

All of my rgb cables are from retrogamingcables

I don't even get sound from Nintendo switch through the framemeister.

Any ideas?

Obvious questions (that you should've supplied information about before me having to ask...):

1: Is the Switch set to stereo output? For testing set it to stereo output.
2: Will the Switch output sound when connected directly to the TV at the same HDMI input?
3: Is the volume turned up on the XRGB-mini?
4: Are the AUDIO_SET options correct on the XRGB-mini? You can choose where to get audio from, HDMI and RGB both may use separate analog inputs.

1 . Yes, the switch is set to stereo.
2. Yes, switch get sound from my tv.
3. Yes, the volume is cranked to max.
4 hdmi audio is set to hdmi, nothing happens when I'm changing it to "D"
Rgb audio is set to rgb, nothing happens when I'm changing it to video.

By the way, no audio from component neither. Should it really be this hard? I've got a Samsung ks7000 4K tv with an soundbar from Samsung as well. I don't get audio from either tv or my soundbar.

UPDATE:
Somehow I got audio using HDMI ARC through my Soundbar. Still wondering why I can't get audio from my tv directly. I have some audiobuzzing now, but I guess that's ok for now.

[FBX]

So I've been working on a new Genesis/Mega Drive 1080 profile for 320 mode games that sets the pixels to a perfect square, while leaving a tiny bit of visible overscan area. The reason for the slight overscan cushion is because the Framemeister has a weird quirk where its top pixel border is overly short and the bottom pixel border is overly tall. My previously masked Genesis profile butts right up to the graphic image area, causing the top and bottom row of graphics to display this quirk. I realized my OCD doesn't like it, and so I'd rather leave a thin overscan area to keep all graphic pixels perfectly uniform. I also started getting annoyed by the very slight pinch of the edge pixels on the sides of the visible image, so I re-masked on the horizontal axis to allow for a hair-thin overscan border here as well.

When I finished the new masking parameters, I then used my capture device to compare ZOOM_WIDTH settings until the output image was as close as possible to a perfect 4x integer on the horizontal. Now keep in mind that I normally prefer to set ZOOM_WIDTH to CRT aspect ratio, but in the case of the Genesis's 320 res mode, the vast majority of game designers used square pixel geometry when rendering their artwork. A prime example is Thunder Force III, where planets ONLY look correctly spherical if the pixels are set to a perfect square aspect ratio. The same is true for Castlevania: Bloodlines and Whip Rush, just a cite a couple more examples of intended square pixel artwork. The Super NES's 256 mode on the other hand, meant most artists accounted for CRT aspect correction, but there are even a couple exceptions here as well. Yoshi's Island being the most obvious, where circles in the game are oddly warped at CRT AR. However, due to the rarity of artists forgetting to account for AR on the SNES, I tend to leave that one at CRT AR.

I'll post back soon with the updated package, but here's a clipped shot of Thunder Force III stage select under the new square pixel settings:



You can see the benefit of square pixel AR giving the planets their proper spherical shape.

.

[zelkian]

I recently got a Framemeister and I'm trying to understand how I might fix some of the noise issues I'm having so I thought I'd ask here.

First my setup:
Monitor: ASUS ASUS VN279QL
SCART Switch: 2x Bandbridge 5-port SCART switchers chained.
Upscaler: Framemeister with Retro Gaming Cables EUROSCART adapter with Sync Stripper (Using Firebrandx's profiles)
Consoles: NES (NESRGB board Mod), SNES 1-Chip (RGB), Genesis 1/SegaCD (RGB), Playstation 1 (RGB), Saturn (RGB), Turbografx 16 CD (RGB Mod), Dreamcast (RGB),
PS2 (Component), Xbox1 (Component), Wii (Component), Gamecube (Component) - All SCART cables for them from either Retro Gaming Cables or Retro Console Accessories, but aren't CYSNC cables

My big question right now is if I have the sync stripper SCART adapter is it really necessary to buy individual CSYNC cables for each console? Hopefully I can adjust some settings instead, but if new, upgraded CSYNC cables would clean up the picture I'll go that way.

From the testing I've done so far I've gotten some noise with most of the consoles. The NES is the only one that is overall really clean with only a little noise visible depending on the color shown. The Turbografx is actually pretty clean too, but has what looks like a slight halo to the right of anything that is pure white, but I have this separate issue if I use the RCA audio output from the CD drive it creates this light blur effect on the picture. The SNES, Genesis and Dreamcast all have more visible noise overall depending, with the SNES having what looks like a sleight stairstep pattern through everything. The Saturn though it the worst offender with noise all over the screen like vertical audio wave patterns, especially visible in black areas.

I did happen to see a post were someone was able to clear up noise changing the output_color setting so I'll try that later at home. Any tips would be appreciated though.

[FBX]

... with the SNES having what looks like a sleight stairstep pattern through everything. The Saturn though it the worst offender with noise all over the screen like vertical audio wave patterns, especially visible in black areas.

That stairstep pattern on the SNES has two causes:

1. Using composite video for the sync signal, and your cables are not shielded properly to protect against signal coupling (this is why people prefer csync).

2. Certain revisions of the SNES motherboard also produce this noise, like the APU revision.

Hopefully yours is caused by the former instead of the latter, which can be fixed by getting better cables with csync.

Now the Saturn is going to look like shit on the Framemeister on the current firmware when it comes to 352 and 704 res mode games. Unfortunately, that's most of the library. 320 mode games will look crystal clear though, which indicates the Framemeister is to blame for the foul-up on the other res modes.

Still though, I always recommend getting either Csync or "sync on luma" cables that are well made and properly shielded. It will make a world of difference if you stick to high standards on your cables.

[zelkian]

Still though, I always recommend getting either Csync or "sync on luma" cables that are well made and properly shielded. It will make a world of difference if you stick to high standards on your cables.

Yeah that's what I thought, I'll look for some cables. Thanks.

[Rasdock]

What are the proper settings to play a 4:3 PS2 game? I'm using FBX's (sharp) profiles, and I've tried both the wide and non-wide. What should I set in my PS2's system config to? I've tried 4:3 and 16:9 and I'm still getting the game in a window. My Samsung TV is on 16:9 and Fit To Screen. Also, a wiki page says to hold the triangle and X buttons after the PS2 logo to go into progressive screen. I'm not sure when I'm supposed to do that and how long I'm supposed to hold it with all of the handshaking going on with the Framemeister. Any guidance on that would be appreciated (the game in question--Gradius III and IV--is listed as progressive-capable).

[TheShadowRunner]

(the game in question--Gradius III and IV--is listed as progressive-capable).

Hmm i'm quite certain it's not progressive capable..

[Ripthorn]

Hey @FBX, do you plan to create profiles for Wii?

[FBX]

Hey @FBX, do you plan to create profiles for Wii?

Low priority, though I'm sure I can get a loaner down the road. I've just got bigger fish to fry this summer.

Anyway, small package update:

Code: Select all

Added "30GEN320". This profile scales Sega Genesis 320 mode 4x on both vertical and horizontal, and retreats the border masking to allow a thin overscan border around the graphic area. This is done to retain pixel uniformity on the extreme edges of the 320x224 image (Framemeister messes edge pixels up if masking is butted up against them). This profile is great for 320 mode games that use a black overscan color, but you might prefer using "28GEN4X3" for colored overscan games like Golden Axe for example.

Also adjusted the Super NES 4x vertical scale "06SNS4X" profile to more accurately reflect original aspect ratio of the signal as it was sent to CRT displays (my old settings were just a hair too wide). This time around, I used screen captures to adjust width down to the single pixel level. The target width for both NES and Super NES at 4x scale is 1170 pixels, which this new profile adjustment exactly matches.

Lastly, renamed a few of the profiles to rearrange them (Turbo Duo profiles got pushed to 41 and 42). 

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/fra ... -07-02.zip


.

[axlblazeadam]

Anyway, small package update:

Thanks so much for still updating the profiles, much appreciated!

[dillsta]

Hey FBX,
Just got my framemeister yesterday and have been using your profiles and everything looks good
Two things i have noticed:
Your widescreen profiles for the xbox have scanlines turned on.
PS1 seems to zoomed in way to far.

Could me my ps1 though as i have some issues with it and my SNES.
The SNES has the SuperCIC mod and is a PAL model.
The PS1 is a Pal model running NTSC games with a PSIO.
The colour on them both is black and white with a wired purple tinge.
Currently using S-video Cables for both.
I am hoping scart cables will fix up the issue, but just wondering if any one has had any experience fixing this up on svideo/composite.

Also another thing with your ps2/xbox profiles FBX, is there an easy way to zoom a lit bit on the xbox and ps2 profiles to fill the screen.
I am guessing the borders are the to keep pixes sizes consistant, but i dont seem to notice this as big of an issue on 3d games.

Thanks, Dillsta.

[Everblue]

I have a "weird" question(s), hopefully this is ok to ask here.

I have a Wii (PAL) console on the way which I would like to use to play both Wii and Gamecube games (original - PAL). The Wii will be connected to the TV via a component cable.

1. From what I understand most Gamecube PAL games are not able to output to 480p, so if I try to play GC games with the above setup, what will happen? No picture? Game will be displayed at 240p? System forces games to run at 480p anyway? (I doubt).

2. Are there any advantages of passing the above setup through a Framemeister before going into the TV via HDMI?

Thank you

[BuckoA51]

1) Eh? Component supports 480i you do realise? They'll just display in 480i like normal.

2) Yes, the FM has a deinterlacer that's ideally optimised for videogame content.

[schnuth]

Anyway, small package update:

Thanks so much for still updating the profiles, much appreciated!

Thanks too FBX, your work is very appreciated. These were a life saver when I got my Framemeister, and they just keep getting better!

[theclaw]

I have a "weird" question(s), hopefully this is ok to ask here.

I have a Wii (PAL) console on the way which I would like to use to play both Wii and Gamecube games (original - PAL). The Wii will be connected to the TV via a component cable.

1. From what I understand most Gamecube PAL games are not able to output to 480p, so if I try to play GC games with the above setup, what will happen? No picture? Game will be displayed at 240p? System forces games to run at 480p anyway? (I doubt).

2. Are there any advantages of passing the above setup through a Framemeister before going into the TV via HDMI?

Thank you

Gamecube PAL games missing 480p individually disabled it. Monotonous as that sounds.
You'll almost always get 480i and/or 576i. Wii doesn't change that. (240p is very rare for GC. The Legend of Zelda Collector's Edition released in every major region, but the USA and JPN versions have 480p to make up for it). Mega Man X Collection was NTSC-U only.)

Options like Action Replay codes and homebrew, some modchips, etc can also force video modes to various results.

I believe the expensive component cable itself works fine on a PAL GC.

[Guspaz]

The GameCube 240p mode is wierd, it's the same horizontal resolution as 480i/480p. At one point, I was doing splash screens for gbiloader, and that was making everything look silly.

The component cables work on PAL consoles (they do have the digital port), but you've also got a cheaper option if you're outputting to a TV that supports component and not RGB (like an NTSC TV), the HD Retrovision component cables work with the PAL gamecube, albeit at 240p and 480i.

You should be able to use Swiss to force different resolutions on GameCube discs, although I haven't tried using it to force 480p (since I don't have the expensive component cables) and I haven't tried using it to force resolutions on the Wii.