Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

[Shepardus]

It's kinda funny, I tend to compare those two games myself a lot. There are many similarities between them, but I think they are even more apparent if you pick the 2P ship in TD2.
I wouldn't recommend you do that though if moving all over the place in DF to collect items was too overwhelming, because the P2 side ship in TD2 is also going to make you do that with its narrow shot and high moving speed.

It's not so much the moving that was overwhelming (that's the fun part), but more that there's a lot of moving stuff on the screen in Dangun while in TD2 it's a bit "cleaner." Those flashing bullets don't do any favors for readability, though. At least it's not bad compared to some other NMK games.

I don't really want to play on the P1 side because I don't want to tap, and using autofire on it just feels wrong when there's already built-in autofire on the P2 side. I like the playstyle encouraged by P2's fast movement and narrow shot, even if I'm not actually better at it.

It's a bit annoying trying to discover and route for all the blue medals, especially since missing one can mess up when you get bombs, but I think it'll get better after I at least figure out where they are. I consistently get all the blue medals I'm aware of in stage 1, but beyond that I sometimes come across them and sometimes don't.

[trap15]

Important to note that some are based on the air formation and some are based on the screen scroll. They also travel at twice the speed of the BG scroll, so they can be pretty easy to miss if you don't know about them. If you're trying hard for a 1CC, you want to use P1 with autofire for sure, the damage output on P2 makes the latter half of the game dramatically harder than P1. Learning the secret medal locations is much easier with P2 though, just because of homing missiles.

[Shepardus]

By "based on the air formation" you mean they appear with certain enemies? I didn't know that, I just assumed they were all just based on the screen scroll (and scrolled faster than the BG itself, that I knew). Thanks for the tip!

While I'm at it, I know about a couple bonus medals that have conditions tied to them, such as the waves of enemies in stage 2 that leave a medal if you kill all of them before they get too low, and the 50k medal that drops if you kill the entire wave of missile planes in stage 1. Anything else like that, especially if the condition is something other than "kill everything quickly"?

[Vludi]

Also playing TD2, aiming for 5,4m but that will take quite a bit of time. Stage 2 must be one of the hardest stages for scoring, I have trouble spawning the first big green plane fast enough (before the plane coming from behind) even when I've practiced it a lot, any tip for that trap?

[trap15]

By "based on the air formation" you mean they appear with certain enemies?

Yup, I believe most of the Stage 1 ones are like that. I couldn't say for sure though. For the most part I think you can cue stuff based on the BG scroll, there's very very few based on the air pattern.

While I'm at it, I know about a couple bonus medals that have conditions tied to them, such as the waves of enemies in stage 2 that leave a medal if you kill all of them before they get too low, and the 50k medal that drops if you kill the entire wave of missile planes in stage 1. Anything else like that, especially if the condition is something other than "kill everything quickly"?

Only those formations, but you'll see the missile planes a couple times later in the game (I think stage 6 has 2 of those back-to-back, and I think stage 7 has one?)

Also playing TD2, aiming for 5,4m but that will take quite a bit of time. Stage 2 must be one of the hardest stages for scoring, I have trouble spawning the first big green plane fast enough (before the plane coming from behind) even when I've practiced it a lot, any tip for that trap?

Considering both of the superplays barely reach that green plane, it's going to be a tight squeeze no matter what. All I can suggest is memorizing harder Are you still using P2 or have you come to the P1 dark side? P2 looks like it sort of has to just rely on the missiles doing the right thing, P1 should be able to do it consistent with solid routing. If in doubt, watch the superplays, I guess. I don't think I usually get it, anyways.

[M.Knight]

It's not so much the moving that was overwhelming (that's the fun part), but more that there's a lot of moving stuff on the screen in Dangun while in TD2 it's a bit "cleaner." Those flashing bullets don't do any favors for readability, though. At least it's not bad compared to some other NMK games.

I can't remember if I felt overwhelmed by the amount of stuff on screen in DF at first, but I guess I got used to it. I admit I still die from time to time due to a bullet I didn't pay attention to while rushing towards discomen OCD-style but I think that's part of DF's fun.

The bullet visibility in TD2 is still far from perfect, but it's better than something like P-47 Aces's green bullets.

While I'm at it, I know about a couple bonus medals that have conditions tied to them, such as the waves of enemies in stage 2 that leave a medal if you kill all of them before they get too low, and the 50k medal that drops if you kill the entire wave of missile planes in stage 1. Anything else like that, especially if the condition is something other than "kill everything quickly"?

Every stage (aside from the last, I think) has a brown plane that spawns near the end if your quick-kill skills are good enough. Killing it before it leaves spawns a 50k medal. I don't think there are any tricky or obtuse requirements for those 50k; they are very straightforward.

If you're trying hard for a 1CC, you want to use P1 with autofire for sure, the damage output on P2 makes the latter half of the game dramatically harder than P1.

I managed to reach stages 6 and 7 with the P2 ship and I agree. Its lack of range makes some waves difficult to handle, especially if you don't have the missiles. However, I find it very difficult to get back to P1's slow speed.

[Shepardus]

I can't remember if I felt overwhelmed by the amount of stuff on screen in DF at first, but I guess I got used to it. I admit I still die from time to time due to a bullet I didn't pay attention to while rushing towards discomen OCD-style but I think that's part of DF's fun.

Another thing I forgot to say about Dangun is that, at least on a keyboard, it's quite tiring to wiggle around picking up all the discomen. Fun, but not something I can play for more than a few credits before my fingers start to hurt.

Every stage (aside from the last, I think) has a brown plane that spawns near the end if your quick-kill skills are good enough. Killing it before it leaves spawns a 50k medal. I don't think there are any tricky or obtuse requirements for those 50k; they are very straightforward.

Yeah, I've managed to get those on the first three stages so far. It's a neat way of setting a sort of "par" rating for the stage.

[WelshMegalodon]

Nemesis GB is pretty easy.

EDIT: And I've cleared the first loop.

[davyK]

DoDonPachi ...... lunchbreaks in work this week.

shmupMAME + projector + PC arcade stick.

ready to go:

[copy-paster]

Nemesis GB is pretty easy.

play the sequel plz

[Squire Grooktook]

@Shepardus

Even though Dangun is one of my top 5 stg's, I actually do agree.

I don't find it so much overwhelming as very exhausting and "heated". I've joked several times before that the game leaves me feeling dehydrated, 'cause it's so hotblooded without any "cool" moments to balance it out. You're pretty much always racing against the clock and feeling like your behind, without many moments where you can kinda sit back and enjoy some fun dodging or pulling off a few tricks.

I don't consider it a "flaw" though, so much as part of the games character and what makes it a unique experience, and I find it an achievement in itself that a game can be so consistently evocative. I would like a STG with a similar focus but more melody to the thrash though (which was one of my main goals with Aeon Zenith).


Anyway, more Stella Vanity:

So this game turns out to be really up my alley. There's very much an emphasis on destruction, what with the dual subweapons and overkill system, paired with two hyper modes focused on massive bullet cancels and increasing the speed enemies appear at while overcharging your weapons. It's a pretty fun, and in the vein of scorching death stg's like Kamui.

Too bad I as of yet only understand like 50% of the system lol


Also still plugging away at Phantasmagoria of Dimensional Dreams. Making it to the rival battle pretty consistently with a 50/50 pass rate. Sailor of Time is still kicking my ass, but now I usually get her halfway down before dying.

PODD is life.

(ironic considering the teeny zako toy helicopters feel completely wrong)

I just assumed that the zakos are unmanned drones, then the size makes sense

That's what I figured too, but being shaped like helicopters and tanks (down to having cockpit windows and such), it does make them look like toys. Some more obviously robotic designs would have helped.

Then again, at times I'm not quite sure what's supposed to be deep in the foreground...

[M.Knight]

Dangun Feveron being so feverish with no slower moments to the point of potentially exhausting you is actually what I like the most about this game. Because it is so demanding, because everything in the game makes you try to be the fastest you've ever been and because there's so many things to do at the same time, I feel more focused and less distracted than when I play other games. I am the kind of person whose mind easily wanders in random places and reaching stage 3/4/5 inevitably forces me to focus on what is actually happening on the screen, and for that I will always have a soft spot for that game.

[Bananamatic]

it's kinda funny how much shit battle traverse gets for aesthetics that really aren't that bad considering it's a doujin game by a one time dev
not many doujin devs actually try and draw actual diverse backgrounds and design actual enemies instead of having repetitive scrolling backgrounds and putting together abstract pieces into something that resembles enemies

I agree that the characters are kind of weird (and I would've probably preferred ships myself), but at least they had an actual concept of a story and general design and even managed to execute it in a very good game in terms of balance and gameplay

and then the game gets immediately forgotten despite all that, what a shame

[Squire Grooktook]

it's kinda funny how much shit battle traverse gets for aesthetics that really aren't that bad considering it's a doujin game by a one time dev
not many doujin devs actually try and draw actual diverse backgrounds and design actual enemies instead of having repetitive scrolling backgrounds and putting together abstract pieces into something that resembles enemies

I agree that the characters are kind of weird (and I would've probably preferred ships myself), but at least they had an actual concept of a story and general design and even managed to execute it in a very good game in terms of balance and gameplay

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the effort that went into it, and I'd much rather be playing something with this aesthetic then most other doujin stg.

That's actually why I find there's so much to talk about with what it doesn't do: There's so much work put into it, and I feel all that work could have created something really legendary with maybe slightly better art direction.

It's a really good looking game. And I actually still prefer the characters to ships, but like I said just a few tweaks (which they, unlike many other doujins, had the time/budget for) could have pushed it even farther from "good" to "great".

[Bananamatic]

it's just that you're probably the third person mentioning the aesthetics now

my only real issue with the game is how slow extreme mode is, the slowdown is way too excessive

[Squire Grooktook]

People bring up the aesthetics because, like I said, they're really good and obviously had huge amounts of effort put into them. But that also makes the weakpoints more noticeable. Like nobody is going to make a big deal about the aesthetic shortcomings in a doujin game with 3 art assets, but when something comes along that actually has great drawing and a budget, but somewhat skewed priorities, it's easier to think of what could have been.

It's like when a really incredible h-artist comes along but they only do ntr doujins. It's that kind of feeling.

So close yet so far.

---

Anyway I don't really have a problem with the aesthetics like I said. Gameplay seems aaaallllright, it's definitely a solid and well put together affair. Not sure if I'm sold on the ketsui/progear hybrid yet, but we'll see.

[schleichfahrt]

my only real issue with the game is how slow extreme mode is, the slowdown is way too excessive

Is the slowdown purely artificial, or is it just the PC grinding down towards a halt?

[Bananamatic]

my only real issue with the game is how slow extreme mode is, the slowdown is way too excessive

Is the slowdown purely artificial, or is it just the PC grinding down towards a halt?

how much shit would you need to throw at a modern PC in a 2D game to actually make it go below 60 fps
of course it's artificial (and it makes sense, no sudden speedups) but it's way too much

[Squire Grooktook]

how much shit would you need to throw at a modern PC in a 2D game to actually make it go below 60 fps

Mine once slowed down when I accidentally drew 129600 separate sprites at once.

(I was trying to do a drawing trick with a 360x360 sprite and ended up rendering every pixel as a separate sprite/game object)

[Shepardus]

my only real issue with the game is how slow extreme mode is, the slowdown is way too excessive

Is the slowdown purely artificial, or is it just the PC grinding down towards a halt?

how much shit would you need to throw at a modern PC in a 2D game to actually make it go below 60 fps
of course it's artificial (and it makes sense, no sudden speedups) but it's way too much

About 20,000 bullets should do the trick, give or take a couple orders of magnitude depending on how well it's coded. ring^-27 sometimes slows down a bit on my computer and I'm pretty sure it's not intended.

[schleichfahrt]

how much shit would you need to throw at a modern PC in a 2D game to actually make it go below 60 fps
of course it's artificial (and it makes sense, no sudden speedups) but it's way too much

Well.. depending on what engine they used (if any) and how it's done the "modern PC" doesn't hold up so great. The fill rate isn't typically the problem, but the fact that bullets are often implemented by devs as "game objects" (or whatever the individual engine calls its basic instances) rather than lists + manual blitting. This carries so much overhead that you can make a really beefy PC drop even at well below 10,000 instances on screen, purely by the logic of the objects, not the actual drawing.

And speaking of fill rate.. if you are dealing with low ass GPUs (old intels on laptops and SoC-stuff found in mobiles) a 2D-engine might actually put more strain on it. 2D is typically done with a back to front renderer (stuff stacked on top of each other, starting at the back), whereas 3D is drawn front to back. If you have full HD game on a weak android (which still has a HD screen), rather than a blown up 240p for example, it's fill rate might be exhausted with just filling the screen like 1.5 times. Easy to go beyond that with stacked sprites, whereas a 3D rendering without multiple passes for transparency etc might just fit in.

[Barba]

Currently replaying all the old inventory, to finally make a decent 1CC list.

So today: Area 88.

[miso]

So today: Area 88.

I remember a couple of years back when I tried it out, I found its difficulty curve unusual. Some stages in the middle are super easy to clear in the first try, also some bosses are very easy.

[Squire Grooktook]

Played some Cyber Core (PC Engine) today.

Pretty nice game. I love the aesthetic (particularly the morphing bio-mechanical player ship, my favorite form being the red weapons ultimate chitinous glider). Some very nice fast dodging late game with those utterly wicked homing enemies. A shame it takes so long to get serious. I can imagine the first two stages in particular growing tiresome on replay. Still a very nice game.

I feel like there's also some nice subtle visual story telling going on with the stage background progression. Initially fending off seemingly mindless "hyper insects" in a ruined post-apocalyptic world, before ultimately stumbling into their own civilization complete with organic cathedrals and high-tech machinery. It does feel like a journey, especially with the soundtracks fitting escalation.


Also been putting a few random credits into the Vasara series these past months.

I feel I can very easily summarize the main problem of the games as being the lack of balancing between shot and melee. It's all well and good to make a game focusing on close range melee combat, but when your other primary weapon (shot) is worthless (and score actively penalizes you for its use), then the game loses some sense of variety and strategy.

Not a bad pair of games though. And those audiovisuals! The pre-rendered sprites and mecha japan aesthetic is okay, but the utterly superb slashes, hitsparks, blood splatters, flashes, and other assorted animations combined with massively fitting sound design on all of them really makes the games feel more visceral and engaging then it's very average mechanics would have otherwise made it.

[Squire Grooktook]

Made it to Yumemei in Phantasmagoria of Dim Dream. Actually not as much of a difficulty spike as Sailor of Time was, but still very dangerous. Actually managed to get her down to 2 hearts on first run of her.

I am told this is in fact the hardest Touhou survival clear when playing with a non broken character (which I am). I don't really get bored of it the way I do with some of the other, allegedly easier ones (or long term survival challenges like Psikyo 2-alls or Cave clears), because I just like it so much.

Pretty much got everything I like in a shmup. Fast movement based dodging that doesn't feel imprecise or irritatingly inefficient. Thrilling bullet speed. RNG Chaos Reflex action everywhere. A fun gimmick (partially copied from TSS, but with enough game changing new elements and adapted in such a way that it feels completely unique). Lots to love.

Easily in my top 5 stg's now. Maybe in my top 10 games.

[BIL]

Solar Striker [GB] (Nintendo, 1989) Basic vert, but in terms of enemy formations and getting the player to move around, this is superb economical design. Stage 1 has a touch of Verytex Syndrome (a handful of good patterns repeated a few too many times), but it steeply improves from there. Loop 2 is great from start to finish.

A shotdown ratio and associated bonus would've been good incentives, I think - with the narrow shot, relying on the ship's speed to nail every last zako is hectic work, emphasising the excellent formation design. Loop 2's higher bullet count does well in this role; aggressive, efficient movement becomes much less optional, with complacency inviting a boxing-in.

Runs superbly too, particularly for a 1989 GB title - you need to let a ton of enemies and their bullets onscreen before it starts to chug, and the ship control is tack-sharp. I knew to expect something at least decent, but I'm still a bit surprised at how good this is given its low profile. Worth a go for anyone who likes simpler shooting, doubly so if you've affection for the stalwart old GB. Warmed my heart to see Gunpei Yokoi's name in the staff roll.

[Despatche]

Currently playing Sonic Wings 3.

I wish the pattern designs were as offbeat as the mechanical clusterfuck surrounding them, but eh I guess we're still waiting on a proper Hellsinker 2. Fun times.

As fucked as it is, I feel that ∀kashicverse does a suitable job of this.

[Stevens]

Dogyuun
Cyvern
Shock Troopers

[Chaos Phoenixma]

Loaded up Steam Deathsmiles earlier and did a crap clear with Follett. Will probably do crap clears with the others this weekend for the achievements then start trying to learn Arcade for score, MBL 999 for survival, or relearn 1.1.

[Stevens]

Added Metal Slug 1 and X to the above's rotation.