What is never brought up in the PS1/Saturn Dodonpachi debate

[MrOldSchoolCool]

Yes, we know both versions are really inaccurate compared to the arcade version. And yes we know how the Saturn version has pixely explosions and the PS1 version is missing a level the Saturn version has. But you know what is never brought up and the reason I prefer the Saturn version?

Because the PS1 is a pain in the ### to play on a US PS1 or PS2 and getting a separate Jap PS1 console is inconvenient as well. Why does nobody ever mention this? Saturn is so much more import friendly. If you just to want to play a casual home console port, convenience counts. Also, Saturn controller for the win if you're just a casual who uses the stock pads on consoles.

[Vludi]

Doesn't a modchip let you play most imports in the ps1?

[egg_sanwich]

JP Ps2 slim has you covered for a pretty massive library if you ask me.

[MrOldSchoolCool]

I think I'm preaching to the wrong choir. Both suggestions are obstacles in my mind. Popping in a $30 action replay cart isn't.

I'm casual guys. Hence why I'm playing a console version of the game.

[Jeneki]

I had a launch PS1, so I used a 25 cent spring to play imports.

[Mero]

Because the PS1 is a pain in the ### to play on a US PS1 or PS2 and getting a separate Jap PS1 console is inconvenient as well. Why does nobody ever mention this? .

Because nobody gives a shit about that.

[Shepardus]

Why does nobody ever mention this?

Because emulating the game on PC is both more convenient and more accurate than any of the ports.

[davyK]

I'm a fan of the Saturn port (but you have to play it in TATE as it's just too ugly otherwise). I'm not that concerned as to its accuracy as it is highly unlikely I will ever get good enough to worry about having my chain timing screwed up! I'll be happy with a 1CC survival run of the first loop!. My best so far is a run to level 5 scoring 15.3m , so differences that an elite player will notice simply won't affect me.

I have to admit I was surpised at reading the vitriol expressed here about the port. I suppose if I had invested the time that someone like Prometheus has in a game and find that a port doesn't respond the way I expected it too I'd be critical. But I'd just be happy to be good enough to notice the differences and be interested in discussing them. I don't think I'd find myself being overly critical. Creating an accurate port of an arcade game is an extremely challenging task (as modern attempts appear to demonstrate), and porting something as exacting as a modern shmup is even more of a challenge.

Saturn DDP is, as far as I can discern, a very enjoyable game. To be fair I think Prometheus gave it a good test and did just say you can't compare the original to the ports with respect to scores and that's fair enough. He also said the ports are garbage which I found a bit extreme but that's probably more about P's writing style? If I was as good at DDP as Prometheus is I certainly wouldn't play the Saturn port as it might screw up my carefully cultivated muscle memory. And that's a pity.

It's only really a concern if you get good enough that you will be comparing scores in a community like this......but if there are enough here who play the Saturn port what is wrong with having a Saturn version table? One way of looking at it is that it's an arrangement of the original. Didn't Cave run a competitiion with this port using the score attack mode and there was a PCB as a prize? If so maybe Cave themselves were happy enough with it as a game if not an accurate recreation of the arcade game?

You know - there's nothing wrong with not being an elite player with a string of 1CCs. We plodders can have our high score tables too! I'm not ashamed to admit I haven't achieved a 1CC since the 16bit days, and even then only with easier shmups like Super Aleste and Super SWIV.

Saturn pad is great too.

I've played the original on shmupMAME too but haven't really got that heavily into playing it that way. My PC is old and since Windows 10 my shmupMAME setup has stopped working and can't be bothered to mess around getting it working again.

[MintyTheCat]

Doesn't a modchip let you play most imports in the ps1?

It does - this is how I play it on my PS1.

I also play in tate mode. Still, I like the joystick that I use on the Saturn and do not have a decent joystick for the PS.

[davyK]

Doesn't a modchip let you play most imports in the ps1?

It does - this is how I play it on my PS1.

I also play in tate mode. Still, I like the joystick that I use on the Saturn and do not have a decent joystick for the PS.

I picked up a stick for the Saturn recently but haven't played much with it. Adjusting takes a bit of time. It's the official Virtua stick but I avoided the Western version as it isn't very good. I got the JPN version (HSS-0136) and it's nice. The stick isn't quite as sensitive as I'd like (it probably needs a bit of work as it is preowned) but I think it's a matter of getting used to it.

[Kollision]

Why does nobody ever mention this?

What I find particularly amusing is seeing people condemn the ports without even being able to get a full 2nd stage chain.

WTF cares if there are milimetric differences in sprites/speed/pixels?
The ports are fine for 95% of people playing DDP.
But yeah the Saturn disc is the better choice imo.

[gray117]

Unfortunately, there's nothing casual about playing a 20 year old console... differences in import games... dodonpachi... or just about anything on this forum

[Mero]

Why does nobody ever mention this?

What I find particularly amusing is seeing people condemn the ports without even being able to get a full 2nd stage chain.

WTF cares if there are milimetric differences in sprites/speed/pixels?
The ports are fine for 95% of people playing DDP.
But yeah the Saturn disc is the better choice imo.

The PS1 version has bigger problems than that, uncovering bees with the laser doesn't keep the chain going and neither does destroying large enemies, the chain breaks as soon as you destroy them (with laser).

[Kollision]

Why does nobody ever mention this?

What I find particularly amusing is seeing people condemn the ports without even being able to get a full 2nd stage chain.

WTF cares if there are milimetric differences in sprites/speed/pixels?
The ports are fine for 95% of people playing DDP.
But yeah the Saturn disc is the better choice imo.

The PS1 version has bigger problems than that, uncovering bees with the laser doesn't keep the chain going and neither does destroying large enemies, the chain breaks as soon as you destroy them (with laser).

yes, that is really awful in so many levels
and the Saturn version doesnt suffer from that

[Bananamatic]

Saturn DDP :
- Of course, as it was known already I believe, the speed is off. Game seems to run a little faster by default (probably 60fps which makes it overall 4% faster). Slowdown occurs more rarely as more bullets need to be on screen to trigger it, so most of the game is even faster that it should on top of those additional 4%. However when slowdown occurs on massive bullet counts, it slows down too much, in particular Hibachi is much easier than it should.
- Horizontal width of play area seems a little bit off (too small), resulting in slightly different enemy placement.
- Damage seems dealt differently by your ship and some enemies have more hit points than they should.
- Bullet cancel lasts a much shorter time than it should.
- Enemies have different aiming.
- Your chaining meter might be a little slower to deplete (not sure).

PSX DDP :
- Slowdown is off similarly to Saturn even with Wait option ON.
- Damage dealing is messed up and many popcorn enemies have too many hitpoints or survive a little longer for some reason.
- Enemies have different aiming similar to Saturn DDP.
- Loop requirements seem wrong.
- When you uncover a bee with your laser, you don't get one hit worth of chain meter gauge filled (this completely messes up chaining).

why on earth would you pay for any of these, you're not even supporting the devs by buying second hand stuff
do yourself a favour, emulate it and buy something else from cave

[gray117]

well you can get the j psn version and support hamster? ... afaik I'm not sure you can support the actual devs by buying anything that cave currently produces

[davyK]

I'm not sure I'd pay for Saturn DDP now as it wouldn't be a cheap game to get, especially when emulation is so accurate. But there's a collector side to me that likes having physical media although I don't believe in games sitting on shelves for too long so they have to be playable. My copy of DDP actually came as part of the deal when I bought my JPN Saturn.

Maybe if I had played the original a lot I would think differently but I'm more than happy with owning and playing it.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Saturn mode (TLB without the second loop requirements) and a whole load of options, decent reasons to play it. Especially as a newcomer and/or more casual player. It's still fun and fundamentally the same game, but you'll be competing with yourself for scores.

It's probably stupid expensive now though, I got a copy when it was about £30 a few years ago.

[davyK]

Aye. Saturn game prices have gone up quite a bit over the last few years. If I was starting to collect now I probably couldn't justify the price of games I currently own.

The Saturn mode is nice. You can select to play the 2nd loop and you can also adjust the combo timer. The extra level is just OK and nothing to get excited about but altogether it's a rather nice game to own.

[Xer Xian]

There is no significant price difference between the two ports, both average around $70-80 CIB on ebay.
I have the PS1 version and can live with most of its imperfections as I don't play it for scoring - what really bugs me though is the altered sound effect when collecting the medals, it's some kind of dumb squeak

[Sumez]

I never heard of anyone having any issues playing ps1 imports?? They always worked perfectly for me.

[davyK]

The Saturn version also has no firing sounds from the level 4 boss's large guns which is a bit strange. How did the testers miss that?

[trap15]

What testers? It's a CAVE game, they don't have testers.

[MintyTheCat]

Doesn't a modchip let you play most imports in the ps1?

It does - this is how I play it on my PS1.

I also play in tate mode. Still, I like the joystick that I use on the Saturn and do not have a decent joystick for the PS.

I picked up a stick for the Saturn recently but haven't played much with it. Adjusting takes a bit of time. It's the official Virtua stick but I avoided the Western version as it isn't very good. I got the JPN version (HSS-0136) and it's nice. The stick isn't quite as sensitive as I'd like (it probably needs a bit of work as it is preowned) but I think it's a matter of getting used to it.

I have the HSS-0104 that I play Shmups on the Saturn with. Might be an idea to tune it up and give yours a good clean.
I have used the NeoGeo AES original sticks for so many years that I find that the easiest to use but I have no converter for any other machines - have to get something sorted out.

[Gamer707b]

I'm a fan of the Saturn port (but you have to play it in TATE as it's just too ugly otherwise). I'm not that concerned as to its accuracy as it is highly unlikely I will ever get good enough to worry about having my chain timing screwed up! I'll be happy with a 1CC survival run of the first loop!. My best so far is a run to level 5 scoring 15.3m , so differences that an elite player will notice simply won't affect me.

I have to admit I was surpised at reading the vitriol expressed here about the port. I suppose if I had invested the time that someone like Prometheus has in a game and find that a port doesn't respond the way I expected it too I'd be critical. But I'd just be happy to be good enough to notice the differences and be interested in discussing them. I don't think I'd find myself being overly critical. Creating an accurate port of an arcade game is an extremely challenging task (as modern attempts appear to demonstrate), and porting something as exacting as a modern shmup is even more of a challenge.

Saturn DDP is, as far as I can discern, a very enjoyable game. To be fair I think Prometheus gave it a good test and did just say you can't compare the original to the ports with respect to scores and that's fair enough. He also said the ports are garbage which I found a bit extreme but that's probably more about P's writing style? If I was as good at DDP as Prometheus is I certainly wouldn't play the Saturn port as it might screw up my carefully cultivated muscle memory. And that's a pity.

It's only really a concern if you get good enough that you will be comparing scores in a community like this......but if there are enough here who play the Saturn port what is wrong with having a Saturn version table? One way of looking at it is that it's an arrangement of the original. Didn't Cave run a competitiion with this port using the score attack mode and there was a PCB as a prize? If so maybe Cave themselves were happy enough with it as a game if not an accurate recreation of the arcade game?

You know - there's nothing wrong with not being an elite player with a string of 1CCs. We plodders can have our high score tables too! I'm not ashamed to admit I haven't achieved a 1CC since the 16bit days, and even then only with easier shmups like Super Aleste and Super SWIV.

Saturn pad is great too.

I've played the original on shmupMAME too but haven't really got that heavily into playing it that way. My PC is old and since Windows 10 my shmupMAME setup has stopped working and can't be bothered to mess around getting it working again.

I am in agreeance with you. I'm the same way. I love my console ports and love collecting and playing console games. There is most definitely an elitist vibe that I get from some people here. 'If you don't play arcade , your game is shit". Fuck that!! Sometimes the console game is actually superior to the pcb. I love my shmups and work hard to procure some of my games but stuff like this is disheartening. I digress, just had to get that off my chest.

[Bananamatic]

I am in agreeance with you. I'm the same way. I love my console ports and love collecting and playing console games. There is most definitely an elitist vibe that I get from some people here. 'If you don't play arcade , your game is shit". Fuck that!! Sometimes the console game is actually superior to the pcb. I love my shmups and work hard to procure some of my games but stuff like this is disheartening. I digress, just had to get that off my chest.

sounds like buyer's remorse to me

wrong mechanics all over the place, impossible chains in the psx port, looks like shit, ear rape sound effects that are sometimes missing entirely, all yours for $80
it's not bad because it's "not arcade", it's just a garbage port by today's standards

there are ports better than the pcb version (like DFKBL), dodonpachi is on the opposite end of the spectrum

[BIL]

I love firing up a console port. Fuck the police! WTB Saturn Gun Frontier! ¦3

However, the PS1 port has a slowdown button. 3:

The PS1 port, has a slowdown button. ¦3

A MOTHERFUCKING FALSIFICARE ON TAP SLOWDOWN BUTTON. EAT SHIT 凸(｀ω´メ)

edit: <3 PS1 Donpachi though ¦3

[davyK]

I am in agreeance with you. I'm the same way. I love my console ports and love collecting and playing console games. There is most definitely an elitist vibe that I get from some people here. 'If you don't play arcade , your game is shit". Fuck that!! Sometimes the console game is actually superior to the pcb. I love my shmups and work hard to procure some of my games but stuff like this is disheartening. I digress, just had to get that off my chest.

sounds like buyer's remorse to me

wrong mechanics all over the place, impossible chains in the psx port, looks like shit, ear rape sound effects that are sometimes missing entirely, all yours for $80
it's not bad because it's "not arcade", it's just a garbage port by today's standards

there are ports better than the pcb version (like DFKBL), dodonpachi is on the opposite end of the spectrum

Long, long ago, I gave up even entertaining the notion of explaining or justifying money spent on a game collection to people who only want to play the game and are happy with ROMs and/or trade in and move on. But I will break my own rule and just say that it's hardly buyer's remorse - especially given the spiralling value of a good collection of Saturn STGs nowadays.

I would love to get a cabinet and some PCBs though. And it is something I am seriously considering now that I have the space. And offloading a sizeable portion of my collection may be part and parcel of funding a move to a small collection of PCBs. But if that doesn't happen I will remain more than happy with my apparently shit looking Saturn DDP port played on a rotated RGB SCART 24" CRT. (not shouting there btw - just using abbreviations)

[Gamer707b]

I am in agreeance with you. I'm the same way. I love my console ports and love collecting and playing console games. There is most definitely an elitist vibe that I get from some people here. 'If you don't play arcade , your game is shit". Fuck that!! Sometimes the console game is actually superior to the pcb. I love my shmups and work hard to procure some of my games but stuff like this is disheartening. I digress, just had to get that off my chest.

sounds like buyer's remorse to me

wrong mechanics all over the place, impossible chains in the psx port, looks like shit, ear rape sound effects that are sometimes missing entirely, all yours for $80
it's not bad because it's "not arcade", it's just a garbage port by today's standards

there are ports better than the pcb version (like DFKBL), dodonpachi is on the opposite end of the spectrum

No buyer's remorse here my friend. Couldn't be further from the truth. I've always taken pride in owning console games. I remember being so proud as a teenager of my Sega Genesis. "See my Sega can play games as good as the arcade". Or playing Tekken 3 on my PS1 and thinking , "this is actually better than the arcade version". I've just always had favoritism towards consoles. Heck my Saturn Radiant Silvergun actually has a stage that the arcade doesn't. I am blessed to have a good job and yes I can get into Pcbs if I really wanted to, but its not very cost effective for me to do that as someone who loves physical goods. I don't really care if there is a difference in scoring as long as the game as a whole is good. I know that's blasphemy saying that here, but it is what it is. For the price of one ( generally speaking) pcb, I can get 3 or 4 Saturn shooters and still have money left over. I am happy for those that buy pcbs and I'm not hating on that, its the elitist bullshit I dislike. Also, as with many of us, as we get older, we have other higher priorities like owning a home, having a savings , getting ahead in life, things like that. But yea, no remorse here buddy, quite the opposite.

[MrOldSchoolCool]

I am in agreeance with you. I'm the same way. I love my console ports and love collecting and playing console games. There is most definitely an elitist vibe that I get from some people here. 'If you don't play arcade , your game is shit". Fuck that!! Sometimes the console game is actually superior to the pcb. I love my shmups and work hard to procure some of my games but stuff like this is disheartening. I digress, just had to get that off my chest.

sounds like buyer's remorse to me

wrong mechanics all over the place, impossible chains in the psx port, looks like shit, ear rape sound effects that are sometimes missing entirely, all yours for $80
it's not bad because it's "not arcade", it's just a garbage port by today's standards

there are ports better than the pcb version (like DFKBL), dodonpachi is on the opposite end of the spectrum

No buyer's remorse here my friend. Couldn't be further from the truth. I've always taken pride in owning console games. I remember being so proud as a teenager of my Sega Genesis. "See my Sega can play games as good as the arcade". Or playing Tekken 3 on my PS1 and thinking , "this is actually better than the arcade version". I've just always had favoritism towards consoles. Heck my Saturn Radiant Silvergun actually has a stage that the arcade doesn't. I am blessed to have a good job and yes I can get into Pcbs if I really wanted to, but its not very cost effective for me to do that as someone who loves physical goods. I don't really care if there is a difference in scoring as long as the game as a whole is good. I know that's blasphemy saying that here, but it is what it is. For the price of one ( generally speaking) pcb, I can get 3 or 4 Saturn shooters and still have money left over. I am happy for those that buy pcbs and I'm not hating on that, its the elitist bullshit I dislike. Also, as with many of us, as we get older, we have other higher priorities like owning a home, having a savings , getting ahead in life, things like that. But yea, no remorse here buddy, quite the opposite.

Not to get nasty, but just imagine what kind of personal issues a person must have if they feel the need to be elitist on a message board about something like this. Plenty of people feel satisfaction in owning Saturn Dodonpachi and enjoy the heck out of playing it. End of story. And don't worry my friends... you can always fire up the free MAME version if your insecurity is so overwhelming that you need to feel like you're playing the "superior" version.