Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Vanguard]

Holy fuck @ 22:58, was going beneath planned? Seriously caught me off-guard, great stuff - especially with the flawless escape afterward. I'd be way too scared of the pit to try so late in the run. Of course my "safe" method for taking out that Metal Blade damn near ended in disaster...

Yeah. It seems scary but I do it every time and have never lost a life to it.

The deluxe triple-strong Lyer @ 31:25 couldn't have helped your concentration. That room is so much nervier than it looks, imo. Blizzard might seem to ensure a freebie, but with the tricky footing and the ever-present spiders' horrible way of springing from pits (and ofc, the glitch...), I'm on red alert while picking off the frozen Lyers.

The triple lyers aren't a problem because I expect them. Every lyer in that room is a triple lyer until proven otherwise. On the other hand, I've lost far too many lives to those spiders teleporting out of the pit and into my face. Now I always take them out with thunder. 20 mp well spent!

Nothing compared to the coming apotheosis of platformer treachery terror that is The Genocide & SHOCK_DAG Show, of course. Nice weathering of the nipping Dags during the final Genocide takedown... whether the barricade is attacked head-on or sniped from afar, you truly have to tune out the minuscule pest/shot damage and focus 110% on your positioning. It's horrendously easy to die by knockback there, to the point that being safely between two walls while being swarmed by indestructible zako feels positively cozy. Of course the lifebar budget isn't unlimited, you've got to do or die at some point...

Speaking of, that was a gut-wrenching brush with death immmediately after the final Genocide takedown. Did you see the raspberry coming, or was it an 11th hour scare? Truly the stuff of 1LC nightmares... in my run I waited for both to go offscreen, then used psychic waves of sheer murderous hatred* to keep 'em there while I speedkilled the Geno and got the fuck outta there. I'm still not sure how the Dags work, exactly - they seem pretty consistent about returning the way they left, but I was most definitely expecting a six o' clock instakill even as I made my move.

I didn't notice until it was too late and it was absolute horror. The pausing at that point was not a (conscious) attempt to buy more reaction time or a way to change spells, but simply the result of sheer irrational panic. The genocide room always makes me nervous, but after that raspberry hit I was a complete wreck. Trembling hands and a bad case of the doki-dokis. Could hardly make even the easier jumps of the final ascent.

In my previous near-1LC I tried to wait out the raspberries, but they would not leave. Eventually my health and magic got low enough that I had no choice but to advance and, sure enough, I got raspberried just as the final genocide went down.

[__SKYe]

It's been a while since I last posted, but in the meantime I've finished a couple games.

The first was Ninja Five-O for the GBA in both Easy and Normal mode.
All in all, a very enjoyable game, and I'm now looking to clear Hard mode as well.

The other is one I had actually cleared before, but it was so long ago, that I didn't really remember much of the game itself.
It is Danan: The Jungle Fighter for the Sega Master System. It is an european release only, so I'm not sure if you guys now of it.

It is a pretty easy game, and really short too (you can clear it in about an hour or so, maybe less).
It is a decent game though, and it looks quite nice for an 8-bit game.

One thing I'd like to ask, for those that know the game:
At the start of the game you can enter a hut, with an old man, where you can choose between 2 different routes.
Now, If you choose the "A very rugged path", he'll say you're not ready and asked you again, and if you choose the same path again he'll let you pass and you'll enter the door on the right side, and be teleported to another area, which, after you clear it, you'll return to the old man, where, again, you'll be asked to choose between the two paths. Only this time, regardless of how many times you choose the "rugged path" route, he will always repeat the question, meaning you can only choose the other (the standard) path.

I've tried to clear the area where you're teleported to (the first time you choose that path) without taking damage, but it's a no go. I've also returned to the old man after gaining a level, but again, nothing.

So does anyone now if it is actually possible to choose that path, or it's just a dead end?
Every review of the game I've read also states that it is not possible to go for that route.

As a last note, this game as one of the funniest short reviews ever.

After being told that the end of the world is nigh most people would go to an armory and stock up on weapons, not Danan he just strolls to his kitchen to arm himself with smallest knife he can possibly find, why? because Danan is hardcore, saving the world is not enough, he has to humiliate his enemies whilst doing it! Your general solid platformer with RPG undertones, there's some higher than average levels of presentation and narrative here but damn do I wish the knife was a little longer.

[BIL]

I didn't notice until it was too late and it was absolute horror. The pausing at that point was not a (conscious) attempt to buy more reaction time or a way to change spells, but simply the result of sheer irrational panic. The genocide room always makes me nervous, but after that raspberry hit I was a complete wreck. Trembling hands and a bad case of the doki-dokis. Could hardly make even the easier jumps of the final ascent.

It's one helluva thing to take on, the Holy Diver 1LC. 3; Congrats again. If you haven't already, I highly recommend decompressing with an old favourite that has reliable controls! You'll feel the chains fall away. Castlevania and Ninja Gaiden are AMAZING after putting up with HD's bullshit.

Speaking of reliable controls:

The first was Ninja Five-O for the GBA in both Easy and Normal mode.
All in all, a very enjoyable game, and I'm now looking to clear Hard mode as well.

Hard is a superb ratcheting up - killing a hostage is an instant Game Over, and there are no HP restore items whatsoever. Brings the game's razor-sharp handling to the fore. Best difficulty in one of the finest ninja sidescrollers ever, and then there's the Time Trial mode too!

[Ruldra]

Just 1cc'ed Alien Soldier on easy. Really fun game, but I have to admit the final boss was rather disappointing after the stage 20 fight. That battle is definitely the highlight of the game.

I never played Gunstar Heroes but I'm familiar with Seven Force. I went and watched a video of it again, and turns out the exact same music plays in that fight. So the battle in AS is actually a homage to Gunstar Heroes. Pretty cool.

If anyone is interested in having a go at Alien Soldier's version of Seven Force, the password is 2878. Go nuts.

Now I'm trying to beat the game on hard. For some reason Ranger is weakened in this difficulty so I'm considering adding another Buster or Lancer in its place.

[Vanguard]

Alien Soldier is real good. I hear that Flame/Flame/Lancer/Lancer is a popular weapon set among speedrunners. I use Flame/Lancer/Lancer/Lancer because lancer seems to be the best choice against seven force.

[BIL]

I never played Gunstar Heroes but I'm familiar with Seven Force. I went and watched a video of it again, and turns out the exact same music plays in that fight. So the battle in AS is actually a homage to Gunstar Heroes. Pretty cool.

Melon Bread (the sharktoothed smiley face) is from Gunstar too - no coincidence he heralds the arrival of Seven Force.

Now I'm trying to beat the game on hard. For some reason Ranger is weakened in this difficulty so I'm considering adding another Buster or Lancer in its place.

Interesting, I didn't know the difficulty affected weapon properties. TBH I've never bothered much with Ranger, Homing or Sword on SuperHard. I like Flame/Lancer/Lancer/Buster to start, with the last swapped out for a third Lancer before Melon Bread. Flame will toast MB, appropriately enough - the three Lancers are for dealing heavy damage to Seven Force immediately afterward. Buster takes a ton of strain off the power weapons in the game's first half, and its abundant ammo and fast recharge means you can pretty much ignore upgrading it until the others are maxed.

As for upgrades, I get Flame maxed by Sniper Honeyviper, Lancer1 maxed by Terrabuster, Lancer2 somewhere around Gusthead, and Buster by Sunset Sting (I still don't know the game's levels, haha... and the boss names are so fun!). It'd definitely be more efficient to pick up a second Flame for the highly-inflammable trio of BugMax, Sunset Sting and Viblack/Back Stringer... but for now I'm comfy enough taking a little longer using Buster while the lone Flame recharges.

Getting a good weapon setup and upgrade schedule down was where the game as a whole really clicked for me - from there I could go for more advanced tricks knowing I'd have a good ammo stock to fall back on. Seven Force is probably the game's single biggest resource concern - that boss can become a dreadful slog if you arrive without a hefty truckload of Lancers. It's hugely helpful to nab at least one of the ammo refills during Medusa Force, I find... preferably both. Note that even if you've exhausted your ammo, the "Zeroforce" spark will trigger weapon boxes for max reload.

The usual speedrun setup of Flame/Flame/Lancer/Lancer requires a caveat - speedrunning itself assumes you'll be zipping past a lot of enemies. I'm way too fond of mowing down hordes of zako (dat screen shake), can't keep my finger off the trigger! If you too enjoy blasting everything in sight, you'll be out of juice fast.

[__SKYe]

Just cleared Ninja Five-O in Hard mode (with a nice little screenshot to boot).

Hard is a superb ratcheting up - killing a hostage is an instant Game Over, and there are no HP restore items whatsoever. Brings the game's razor-sharp handling to the fore. Best difficulty in one of the finest ninja sidescrollers ever, and then there's the Time Trial mode too!

You're absolutely right, Hard mode is way harder than Normal mode.
Enemies do more damage, have more HP, attack faster and the environment hazards (like fire and electricity) go up a notch too.

Something especially noteworthy, for me, is that regular enemies no longer die from a single standing sword slash, which I used to do all the time, so when playing hard mode, I naturally switched to mainly use jump+slash instead (which, apart from the special attack, is the only thing that kills any non-armored enemy in a single hit).
And some of those armor enemies that send blue flames are a major pain in the ass to beat, although the become easier if you are at Power Lv. 2 (when you send 3 flames instead of a shuriken).

Two points in the game almost made me lose my shit.
The airplane boss is ridiculously annoying, because half the time I lost by accidentally jump slashing the pilot (which is an instant game over, since he dies in a single hit).
And then the last stage...
Honestly, when I played Normal mode (and you have 90 seconds to finish it), I thought it was hard as hell. but then in hard mode you get 60 seconds, and dammit. You have to run through it pertty fast, otherwise you won't have enough time.
I did manage to finish with 4 seconds remaining, and since I wasted a little time, I reckon a good player should be able to do it in 50 seconds or so.

And by the way, jump slashing all those ninjas that appear throught the game never stops being fun. One of the most fun parts of the game, for me.

Anyway it is a very enjoyable game indeed, and I'm pretty happy with the clear.

Gotta start mustering the will for Ninja Gaiden now...

[BIL]

The airplane boss is ridiculously annoying, because half the time I lost by accidentally jump slashing the pilot (which is an instant game over, since he dies in a single hit).

When he's in human form, I like to hook the ceiling and headshot him - works best with L3's laser, L2's flame will hit the pilot. ;3 I keep the katana for his dragon form, with ninjitsu for backup in case I get cornered.

And by the way, jump slashing all those ninjas that appear throught the game never stops being fun. One of the most fun parts of the game, for me.

One of the finest finesse touches in all of 2D gaming. I particularly like rushing straight at a hostage-taker, causing him to draw his gun, then leaping his bullet and slicing his back on the way down. Ninja as fuuuck.

[__SKYe]

When he's in human form, I like to hook the ceiling and headshot him - works best with L3's laser, L2's flame will hit the pilot. ;3 I keep the katana for his dragon form, with ninjitsu for backup in case I get cornered.

That's sort of what I do.
If I have Lv. 3, then I'll hook the ceiling and shoot him in the head. It's cool, because you only need two hits before he transforms into the dragon.
If I don't have Lv. 3, then I don't even bother to shoot. Instead, I'll hook the ceiling and wait for him to slash, and then I swing & jump behind him, and immediately slash him in the head (while in midair, of course).

The dragon form is so-so. The main problem, is that when he's low on HP, the dragon will actively chase you instead of just bounce around the room (he'll do really sharp turns towards you and change directions without hitting the far walls first). I've lost several lives this way.

And perhaps the cheesiest way to die here, is when he's in his dragon form, and he moves into a good position for me to jump-slash him, and I accidentaly kill the pilot, because I totally forget that he's there, sobbing in the middle of the room.

I do consider him to be the hardest boss in the game, even more so than his last form (on the final level).

[Vanguard]

I recently cleared Legacy of the Wizard. I'm not sure if I like it or not.

I love the idea of a whole game taking place inside one gigantic, unforgiving dungeon where you gradually increase your sphere of influence through repeated excursions. And the way that the game lets you explore in nearly any order you want, and that it lets you solve areas with the "wrong" character is very cool. Lyll is my favorite character and I used her to clear both her own and Xemn's areas. It's also pretty interesting that you have the option of simply buying upgrade items as an alternative to hunting them down in the dungeon.

On the other hand, its enemies are not very interesting or challenging, and the dungeon relies way too much on pure guesswork. I chickened out and looked up a map after I got stuck in Meyna's dungeon - turns out you have to crouch down on one specific unmarked block!

Are there any other games that explore that same concept? As in, a metroidvania-style game where the primary force holding back the player's exploration is not which upgrades they have, but the sheer peril of the dungeon itself.

[WelshMegalodon]

It's more or less inherent to the subgenre. Drasle Family is basically Dragonslayer II reimagined as a Metroid-like, so I'd invite anyone looking for more of the same to Xanadu and its remake, Revival Xanadu.

[Ex_Mosquito]

I decided to try and record a NoMiss of the PCE port of Ninja Spirit (Arcade Mode) because for some reason there aren't any on YT. I don't get much free time to record games these days and this run was going so well up until the damn final boss where the RNG bite me in the arse. A fair amount of luck is needed to dodge the green thingy-bobs, unfortunately nothing seems to consistently work. I'm gonna try again soon but here's the run anyway, complete with swearing!

https://youtu.be/ujfj_44f1xE

[BIL]

On the other hand, its enemies are not very interesting or challenging, and the dungeon relies way too much on pure guesswork. I chickened out and looked up a map after I got stuck in Meyna's dungeon - turns out you have to crouch down on one specific unmarked block!

If I know the spot you mean -

Spoiler

busting through the floor to the absolute bottom of the dungeon, to begin Meyna's quest in earnest

- I was stumped there for a good couple hours. Didn't quite resort to a map (was damn close), but I did look up a walkthrough to confirm Meyna actually had a dungeon area. Once I was pretty sure I wasn't wasting my time, I went over the area with a finetoothed comb until hitting the jackpot. In retrospect I admire the sheer audacity, but it would've worked better with mild aesthetic direction - rather than demanding blind faith in a vague global notion of "ever downward."

As an action game it's only functional imo, if likably so for the most part. I love whacking those goofy little sprites, especially with Lyll's stomp boots... kinda Bubble Bobble-satisfying, watching them tumble offscreen. There's little pressure where enemies are concerned though. I've been playing the original Metroid lately - combining Wizard's immensely more varied dungeon with its sharper, tenser combat would be a dream matchup. I've never seen anything quite like that, myself, though I'm sure stuff is out there (Wizard of course originated from oldschool Japanese PC gaming, a towering vault I've yet to spend much time in).

For now, the closest I've played to a Metroidesque where opposition lies more in death by misadventure than environmental blockade is Order of Ecclesia. Specifically, its latter phase in the castle proper. Holding back the typical SOTN map until the player had attained near-endgame mobility and firepower was a masterstroke.

I decided to try and record a NoMiss of the PCE port of Ninja Spirit (Arcade Mode) because for some reason there aren't any on YT.

Very cool - I'd considered attempting this myself, but it's far more interesting coming from an accredited arcade version no-misser like yourself. ^__^

[Vanguard]

If I know the spot you mean -

Spoiler

busting through the floor to the absolute bottom of the dungeon, to begin Meyna's quest proper

- I was stumped there for a good couple hours.

That's the one.

I do think that the enemies in Legacy of the Wizard make the game more enjoyable, even if they aren't conventionally good action game enemies. They drain your magic and are a necessary part of that feeling of "will I have enough resources to make it out of here?" In that sense they're more like enemies from a dungeon crawling RPG than an action game, which was probably intentional.

For now, the closest I've played to a Metroidesque where opposition lies more in death by misadventure than environmental blockade is Order of Ecclesia. Specifically, its latter phase in the castle proper. Holding back the typical SOTN map until the player had attained near-endgame mobility and firepower was a masterstroke.

Ecclesia is a good one, and now that I think about it, Dark Souls is also essentially that in a non-platformer game. Neither can really capture that feeling LotW gives me of being hopelessly lost in hostile territory, though.

[GSK]

Maze of Galious is a little more item-driven/hub-and-spoke than Legacy of the Wizard but it ticks a lot of the same boxes.

[Shoryukev]

I've only played Legacy of the Wizard a little bit, but I like what I've seen so far.

[BIL]

I do think that the enemies in Legacy of the Wizard make the game more enjoyable, even if they aren't conventionally good action game enemies. They drain your magic and are a necessary part of that feeling of "will I have enough resources to make it out of here?" In that sense they're more like enemies from a dungeon crawling RPG than an action game, which was probably intentional.

Excellent point - I'd totally forgotten the survival concern they present. Indeed, they won't kill you outright, so much as collectively aid your hopeless stranding miles underground. Weapons drawing from the same pool as the critically important magic tools is a great touch.

Now I really remember why I loved the stomp boots so much, beyond the universal pleasure of sidescrolling hop n' bop. Only way to kill stuff (and generate gold/items) without burning MP!

[__SKYe]

I'm kinda reluctant to post this, because it doesn't quite qualify as "sidescrolling action", so if this is a no-no, please let me know.

Anyway, just got a 10-ALL (reached stage 54) of Yie Ar Kung-Fu (NES).



In typical Konami fashion, from loop 5 on, shit starts to get serious. Especially the chain guy and the shuriken girl.
The girl gets absolutely nuts on the later loops, and sure enough, it was her that gave me the Game Over.

Honestly though, the more I play this game, the more fun is becomes, and I hope to one day reach level 99.

[BIL]

I'd say modern head-to-head fighting games are distinct enough a genre to require their own topic. However Yie Ar is versus CPU only and effectively predates the genre, so it's welcome. You could easily describe it as a boss rush variant of Spartan X. Interesting parallels with 2010 Street Fighter and Alien Soldier too, which arguably reverse-imported the boss rush concept.

I've a soft spot for hardcore vs CPU action in later fighting games, and consider it something of an orphaned game type... so I'm not 100% against discussing that either.

Needless to say, side-viewed 2D action via single-screen (eg Bubble Bobble) or flip-screen (eg MSX2 Akumajou Dracula) is totally ok here, too.

[Shoryukev]

Would the Donkey Kong arcade game fit under that title? (let me know and I'll delete this if it doesn't fit) It's been awhile since I've played it seriously, but I find that game extremely addicting. There's just something incredibly rewarding about several factors of the game. I've been having problems with my MAME PC but I used to play 2-3 rounds when I got home from work every day. My high score is somewhere in the low 200k mark on the US set (I don't play the JP version, but kinda like it's level rotation).

I really like the system of steering barrels in stage 1 (barrels), it feels great getting the barrels to move in ways that let you overcome obstacles and avoid death. Once you get to the later difficulty settings in the game it becomes more and more a factor since the rate of barrels dropping from control inputs goes up. Be careful of those wild barrels when you get to L=03 setting!

Stage 2 (pie factory) is probably my least favorite. The fireballs seem to act completely random (often a topic of debate, but they seem to not have any patterns I can exploit) so it can become fairly perilous making it to the top. Usually I'll climb the first ladder and wait for all the fireballs to emerge on one side, proceeding to take the next ladder on the opposite side....but sometimes the fireballs have other plans and come down and ruin your day LOL. When that happens I often find it hard to figure out what to do and end up losing a life....sometimes I get through in the fastest time possible and others I fall on my face HARD.

Stage 3 (elevator) is definitely my favorite. Doing the "Wiebe jump" from the downward elevator to the high set of platforms makes you feel like a badass. Avoiding the springs to reach the final ladder takes time, but eventually you gain the ability to instantly recognise the difference between the 3 trajectories they have and it isn't so bad. You can inch left slightly after climbing the ladder, and there's a safe-spot on the right side of the yellow marked panel of the elevator on the floor. You want to see the short trajectory spring to reach your safe spot above the elevator, and the long one to go back to the right and climb the ladder. The general consensus is that L=03 on this stage is what separates the men from the boys. Fun stuff!

Stage 4 (rivets) is fun, but can often be a source of anxiety. The randomness of the fireballs makes it feel somewhat similar to the pie factory, but there's more room to avoid them here, and everything is stationary. I have a very specific pattern I use to knock out the rivets, but sometimes the fireballs make chase and you have to improvise. My order is to climb and knock out all the rivets on the left except for the one next to the hammer, then get the hammer and take out as many fireballs as I can. I stay on the right side and wait for the fireballs to respawn (they always spawn on the opposite side BTW), then I take out the rivets on the right. If you get a good run at them you get a great opportunity to stand next to DK and point press....but I often avoid doing it since running the clock all the way to zero disrupts the flow of my game and takes me out of "the zone". Maybe if I ever reach the killscreen I'll start point pressing more.

[BIL]

Would the Donkey Kong arcade game fit under that title?

Absolutely. Still the purest distillation of 2D platforming peril ever. As a rule of thumb, if you'd be confident a game is on-topic in all other regards, single-screen/flip-screen shouldn't be an issue. "Sidescrolling" is a convenient shorthand, but the side-on 2D action is the heart of this thread.

I was all fired up to get the FC port of DK, a few months back - I'm fond of solid launch titles, as well as Nintendo's hardcore early/mid-80s stuff. Sadly, although it captures the AC spirit more than adequately enough for my liking, it completely undermines the barrel stage by letting you hide indefinitely at the tops of ladders. Missing pie factory I can accept, but that's just wrong. >_<

Balloon Fight, Popeye, Spartan X and Excitebike are some of my favourite things ever, though; especially the first's immortal Balloon Trip mode. Analogue-subtle handling, pixel-sharp collision and nonstop tension make chasing its score max easy desert island gaming material.

[BrianC]

While not arcade perfect, the Atari 800 DK is one of my favorite ports of the game. All four levels and snappy controls and hit detection. I have the version of DK that Nintendo added the pie factory level to on the Everdrive N8, but it still plays the same as the original NES port and the pie level isn't arcade accurate.

As far as early NES games go, I also like DK Jr., Mario Bros., Ice Climber, and Wrecking Crew quite a bit. Mario Bros is also missing a couple things from the arcade, but it's a solid port. Nintendo did release a latter version with everything from the arcade intact, but the only version without ads is optimized for PAL. Fortunately, my TV handles the PAL signal in HDMI on the AES. The only dump of the JP Return of Mario Bros FDS is poor anyway and it lacks the harder game B of the PAL Mario Bros Classic version.

[Sumez]

I'm really not a fan of Donkey Kong, but I can see why people get into it the way they do.
It's really big among a lot of people I tend to hang out with, and I actually know no less than three guys locally who killscreened it, with a fourth definitely on his road there.

I finally dedicated a week to get into the game last year to help improve my insight into the actual gameplay. Though it taught me the finer details on how to actually play the game, it didn't really manage to change my opinions on the game.

Here's my own thoughts on the stages:

Barrels: Clearly the most technical of the stages, also the most common stage, and pretty much the stage that defines the game. I'm not a fan though. I don't like the way the whole stage revolves around exploiting knowledge about how the game works behind the scenes. Though that's something I like in a lot of other games, so I can't explain exactly why it doesn't click with me in Donkey Kong. I just think it's too abstract and not really fun to play at all. I just find these stages annoying.
However, I do like the barrel control aspect that abuses a feature intended to make the game more "unfair" to the player, but ends up actually making it easier once you know the mechanics.

Pie factory: A fun stage I think. Quite often you'll get a freebie, but it still frequently forces you to think and be ready to react to certain situations.
Here's a tip for you: Before climbing any ladders, stay on the bottom platform almost directly below the center barrel, but a little to the left of it, forcing all the flames to spawn on the left side. Once they all spawned, immediately head to the right and start climbing. If the flames stay on the left, you can probably make it all the way for an easy victory, but if they come over to you you need to improvise and consider changing your strategy. Even though their patterns are random, they will generally veer more towards the right than the left, so if you get pushed back down, it's often a good idea to start considering an approach from the left side instead. Not a terribly difficult stage as long as you stay awake.

Elevators: A completely broken stage that does nothing good for the game, but also fairly inoffensive. Beating it is entirely about learning a specific path through it and of course the infamous final, completely unintended, "puzzle" with the springs, which was probably intended to block players from ever being able to get past level 4. I get why L4+ spring stages can be a scary challenge that adds tension to a long game for experienced players, but there's nothing objectively good about it.

Rivets: By far my favourite stage. It has enough randomness to ensure some unique patterns throughout a long game, that will always force you to improvise and some times think a little outside the box, always employing both strategy, foresight and quick reactions. My favourite parts of the game, both as a player and a spectator, have always been when the rivet stages get really "steamy". And unlike the elevator and barrel stages it actually plays entirely as intended! If the entire game had been like this, I would have loved it.

[Shoryukev]

Wow you have some hardcore friends! I hope I can killscreen it some day.

I agree the rivet board is the most fun to watch, it's unpredictable and makes for some pretty intense moments sometimes. I'll have to try staying at the bottom on the pie factory board like you're suggesting instead of on the first belt....it puts me too close to danger if the fireballs decide to come down.

I've played the NES port a little bit, but the differences between the AC and the NES port screw with my head too much. Little things like the spring bounce distances being different can really mess with you if you're used to a different version.

[Sumez]

Yeah this is the kind of game where trying to play ports of any kind, while trying to maintain your ability in the arcade version, just isn't a thing. There's way too much microscopic accuracy going on all over the place.

[BrianC]

And unlike the elevator and barrel stages it actually plays entirely as intended! If the entire game had been like this, I would have loved it.

The 2600 and Intellivision versions only have two levels, one of them being the rivet stage. Both are much easier than the original and far from the ideal versions of the game, though.

I find the JP and US differences make things even more confusing with the AC Donkey Kong and DK Jr. Most western DK Jr. ports were based on the US version, which is set quite a bit harder than the JP version and has a similar difference in JP/US level order to DK. The NES versions of DK and DK Jr. are based on the JP version level order, with difficulty set lower than the arcade.

[Vanguard]

Maze of Galious is a little more item-driven/hub-and-spoke than Legacy of the Wizard but it ticks a lot of the same boxes.

Always thought that one sounded interesting, I'll have to give it a try.

[WelshMegalodon]

I've a soft spot for hardcore vs CPU action in later fighting games, and consider it something of an orphaned game type... so I'm not 100% against discussing that either.

I have a high score of 607,900 in Ryuuko MD. It's the easiest version of the game, and nowhere near as impressive as Ruldra's Ryuuko 2 clear, but it's something. Dunno if that counts for anything.

[__SKYe]

Maze of Galious is a little more item-driven/hub-and-spoke than Legacy of the Wizard but it ticks a lot of the same boxes.

Always thought that one sounded interesting, I'll have to give it a try.

Maze Of Galious also inspired the (similar) indie game La Mulana.

The original version is freeware on the PC, and was made to look like an MSX game, while the more recent re-release on PC and WiiWare sports a more modern look, but plays pretty much like the original one.

I'm actually currently playing through the recent re-release, and it's a pretty good game.

If you're interested, you can read a bit about it here (courtesy of HG101).

[Obscura]

I've only played the NES versions, but I've always liked DK Jr. more than the original. The original combines stiff, slow, and floaty in a way I don't like; Jr still.has the jump, but vine-climbing and jumping helps the feel a lot IMO.