XRGB-mini Framemeister

[FBX]

I own a modded AV Famicom. Composhit, S-Video and RGB works fine with the 4X profile. This issue only happen with Video Component.

Ah never knew Tim offered a component kit. But yeah, since I don't have access to the kit myself, I can't adjust the settings for it. One scanline in the middle being too thick usually means having to find entirely different combinations of V_WIDTH and ZOOM_OVERSCAN, because adjusting up or down one value will typically make the scanlines even more out of wack.

If I may ask, is your modded NES a top-loader or a front-loader? My profiles were based off the front-loader, so it may be a case where I have to borrow a modded top-loader to make separate profiles for.

Well, all PAL SNES systems output RGB. Nintendo didn't release the redesign mini SNES there.

?? We're talking about NES here, not SNES.

[Hoagtech]

Hey guys. I was wondering if I should update the mini or not?

Has anyone updated it, then rolled it back only to realize it was not quite the same as before they updated it?

I am paranoid but a little reassurance would help.

Also I heard scan lines work slightly better in 1080p. I'm worried it will somehow add processing to some of my image modes like linear bob.

[Fudoh]

since you can update within a minute and downgrade the next, it's not really an issue. Besides, you'll be fine with an updated firmware. I can't think of anything getting broken. If you're coming from a really old version some things got more complicated, but you don't have to use every option you see.

[FBX]

since you can update within a minute and downgrade the next, it's not really an issue. Besides, you'll be fine with an updated firmware. I can't think of anything getting broken. If you're coming from a really old version some things got more complicated, but you don't have to use every option you see.

The only thing I've heard about old firmwares being useful on the Framemeister seems to be the weird jail bar issue with the Sega Saturn. Apparently one of the older Framemeister firmwares doesn't show any jail bars at all. I'm really curious as to what's going on with the Saturn and why the jail bars show up on newer Framemeister firmwares.

[H6rdc0re]

Did anyone ever try to contact Micomsoft about the 480p video issues? Perhaps they're not aware of these problems. Maybe with the OSSC competition Micomsoft could implement things like Smart X3 (line tripling), Smart X4 and even Smart X5 features could be possible. Just a thought.

[brandonx76]

Sorry if I missed it...but aside from the final run of the Framemeister coming next month, has there been any word of a successor product from Micomsoft yet?

[leonk]

Sorry if I missed it...but aside from the final run of the Framemeister coming next month, has there been any word of a successor product from Micomsoft yet?

dont expect any news until 2018 at the earliest. They'll want to sell off rheir min stock first, right!?

[Fudoh]

Sorry if I missed it...but aside from the final run of the Framemeister coming next month

bollocks. Micomsoft is doing the first run of units using the FINAL BATCH OF MARVELL processors now with more to come. If they don't increase the batch size then they'll do at least four more runs.

[Everblue]

Quick question... I am thinking of getting a PS2 which I would like to use with the Framemeister. Is there a way to force a game to run @ 240p, even if I have to use FreeMcBoot?

Thanks!

[NormalFish]

GSM and hex edits can both be used to force games to 240p with mixed success.

[Grimakis]

FYI for anyone following along. I did order the PAL version of Doshin the Giant, and the Framemeister failed to convert the 50Hz signal to 60Hz. So that was disappointing. However, I was able to install a program called Neogamma on my Wii(Homebrew channel). This program was designed to play backup DVD copies of Wii or Gamecube games. However it can load original discs as well. One of the features it has, it can force a game to run in a certain video setting. When I selected NTSC 480i, evidently it forced the game to run at 60Hz as well, so I was able to play without issues and stuttering.

Note, that if you use Neogamma, you won't need a Freeloader or other boot disc.

[leonk]

I posted this in another thread here, but figured it actually belongs here more .. in case others see the same problem.

I noticed that the N64RGB kit now shows jailbar like artifacts on the NESRGB (2.03a firmware) in PICTURE mode.

Example of what I see. In picture mode:







In game1 mode (meister mode makes it go away as well)





Ignore curves or sharpness differences in pics. Hard to take phone of lcd close on iphone.

Trying to figure out what's wrong (after hours of solder work) I figured it has to be the XRGB (as the PVM is super clean). So I just put firmware 1.07a on the XRGB mini, reset to 1080p and the picture is as good as on PVM!!!! Until now I was using 2.03a.. so it's the XRGB doing something now that it didn't do before.

I next put 2.02 on and it has same problem -- 1.07 still does not. 1.07 in any mode is super clean.

I also discovered that "STANDARD" acts strange with 2.02. If I click "GAME1", noise goes away, and I click on "STANDARD" it stays away. Press picture, and jailbars are back. Click "STANDARD" again, jailbars remain. So there's something GAME1 does that PICTURE does not and STANDARD doesn't reset it! 2.03a is different. STANDARD is always like PICTURE. Jailbars shown flipping back and forth.

[Everblue]

I am getting a PS2 soon which I would like to use with a Framemeister. A friend of mine suggested that the best cable to get is a component cable so I can play games at 480p. Anyone knows if this will be true to all games, or some will play at 240p or 480i?

Thanks!

[NormalFish]

I am getting a PS2 soon which I would like to use with a Framemeister. A friend of mine suggested that the best cable to get is a component cable so I can play games at 480p. Anyone knows if this will be true to all games, or some will play at 240p or 480i?

Thanks!

Nearly the entire ps2 library is 480i. A small number play at 240/480p. Component is certainly the easiest way to go, but I found RGB SCART was better suited to my setup and game taste since I didn't care much for 480p and experiences better image quality than component.

[MMJuno]

I am getting a PS2 soon which I would like to use with a Framemeister. A friend of mine suggested that the best cable to get is a component cable so I can play games at 480p. Anyone knows if this will be true to all games, or some will play at 240p or 480i?

Thanks!

Only certain games natively support 480p, and of these, some require holding buttons on the controller during startup in order to activate the mode.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... play_modes

[Everblue]

Thanks for the replies. Ideally I would like to play in 240p as I hate interlacing, but there seems to be other option than get used to 480i, right?

Does RGB/SCART provide a cleaner picture than component?

[theclaw]

Thanks for the replies. Ideally I would like to play in 240p as I hate interlacing, but there seems to be other option than get used to 480i, right?

Does RGB/SCART provide a cleaner picture than component?

Slightly, but it's less convenient. 480p RGB output from a PS2 (or PS3) uses sync on green. Which Framemeister does not support.

[FBX]

Trying to figure out what's wrong (after hours of solder work) I figured it has to be the XRGB (as the PVM is super clean). So I just put firmware 1.07a on the XRGB mini, reset to 1080p and the picture is as good as on PVM!!!! Until now I was using 2.03a.. so it's the XRGB doing something now that it didn't do before.

I next put 2.02 on and it has same problem -- 1.07 still does not. 1.07 in any mode is super clean.

I also discovered that "STANDARD" acts strange with 2.02. If I click "GAME1", noise goes away, and I click on "STANDARD" it stays away. Press picture, and jailbars are back. Click "STANDARD" again, jailbars remain. So there's something GAME1 does that PICTURE does not and STANDARD doesn't reset it! 2.03a is different. STANDARD is always like PICTURE. Jailbars shown flipping back and forth.

This sounds a lot like the Sega Saturn jail bars issue, where the older Framemeister firmwares do not show jail bars, but the current one does. I want to say there's some sort of LPF that had been accidentally applied to all modes in the older firmware, whereas in the newer ones, you have to select the image mode intended to have the LPF. My problem with LPF is it also removes detail. I recall experimenting with it on SSX 3 for the PS2, and you could see the filter was removing all the texture from the snow.

FYI, according to my notes of the current firmware, only "STANDARD", "GAME1" and "MEISTER" apply LPF.

[opt2not]

Anyone have any issues with playing Street Fighter II: Turbo on an SNES jr. with the Framemeister? When I go into the Character Selection screen, it looks like the sync goes crazy. Otherwise it works during the fights and title screen.

I do have a sync separator circuit within my scart cable, but this is the only game I've found so far that seems to wig-out. Any ideas?

[leonk]

This sounds a lot like the Sega Saturn jail bars issue, where the older Framemeister firmwares do not show jail bars, but the current one does. I want to say there's some sort of LPF that had been accidentally applied to all modes in the older firmware, whereas in the newer ones, you have to select the image mode intended to have the LPF. My problem with LPF is it also removes detail. I recall experimenting with it on SSX 3 for the PS2, and you could see the filter was removing all the texture from the snow.

So why would the OSSC and PVM not exhibit these jail bars, but XRGB will? The LPF, is it applied across all data lines, SYNC only, ... ?

Also, is there a way to turn on/off the LPF in the menu?

[FBX]

So why would the OSSC and PVM not exhibit these jail bars, but XRGB will? The LPF, is it applied across all data lines, SYNC only, ... ?

Also, is there a way to turn on/off the LPF in the menu?

Well again it seems similar to the Sega Saturn, which also looks perfectly clean on a PVM (and the older Framemeister firmware). I don't really know how or what the LPF is applied to, and there's no option to turn it off, other than in the current firmware it being limited to standard, game1, and meister modes.

What I'm thinking about doing is breaking out SSX 3 again and doing a detail test with the older 1.07 firmware. If I see the same loss of detail in all modes, then that would prove the theory that LPF was enabled on all modes in that older firmware.

Coincidentally, the jail bars are absent when using composite video on the Saturn into the Framemeister, indicating there's something very specific to the RGB signal that it's not liking. It might even be the same thing it's not liking about the N64RGB signal.


Edit: Just hooked up the Saturn and made some interesting observations on the current Framemeister Firmware:

"Standard" mode shows the strongest amount of jail bars, while "Meister" mode shows the least. If you toggle the scanline button after setting it to Meister mode, you can force the scanlines off and yet still be in Meister mode. In this case, the jail bars are only barely visible, but they are indeed still there.

More testing to be done...

Edit 2: I spotted the "SYNC_LEVEL" function actually shifting the jail bars horizontally and making them fade in and out, so at least in the case of the Saturn, it's very definitely something in the sync line that the Framemeister doesn't like.

Still more testing to be done...

[leonk]

Not surprising.. I always knew that the XRGB mini is very sensitive to sync levels .. PVM I think is a lot more forgiving.

I wonder if using composite sync or sync on luma with N64RGB will make it go away.. HMMMMMM.... experiment time!

[FBX]

Not surprising.. I always knew that the XRGB mini is very sensitive to sync levels .. PVM I think is a lot more forgiving.

I wonder if using composite sync or sync on luma with N64RGB will make it go away.. HMMMMMM.... experiment time!

I wish I had a luma sync cable for the Saturn. I'm betting the jail bars go away. I may have to just make a temporary one just to find out.

[leonk]

No luck.. sync of composite video and sync on luma look IDENTICAL to CSYNC.

I opened the Nintendo end of the SCART cable, made sure the CS# resistor was not there, and then moved the wire between composite video and then luma (Luckily they are in the same row as CS!)

It's something else. I wish we can turn on/off the LPF in the menu; this way we'll know for sure!

[FBX]

On my end, I discovered the crappy SCART cable I have for the Saturn was using composite video for the sync signal. I normally buy my cables fro Retro_Console_Accessories, but they were out of stock on Saturn cables, and so I was forced to buy elsewhere. So now I'm going to see if I can swap the wire to csync and check for jail bars after that. The Saturn supports both csync and luma, so I'll try both.

[leonk]

Remember that CSYNC on Saturn is TTL and not CS75. I believe you'll need to add a resistor!

[copy]

No luck.. sync of composite video and sync on luma look IDENTICAL to CSYNC.

I opened the Nintendo end of the SCART cable, made sure the CS# resistor was not there, and then moved the wire between composite video and then luma (Luckily they are in the same row as CS!)

It's something else. I wish we can turn on/off the LPF in the menu; this way we'll know for sure!

Yes, I get jailbars on my Saturn model 2 using a sync-on-luma cable from retro_console_accessories.

The jailbars are also still there when I use the SCART-to-XRGB adapter with the built-in sync stripper, again from retro_console_accessories.

[CaveManGamer]

Not surprising.. I always knew that the XRGB mini is very sensitive to sync levels .. PVM I think is a lot more forgiving.

I wonder if using composite sync or sync on luma with N64RGB will make it go away.. HMMMMMM.... experiment time!

I wish I had a luma sync cable for the Saturn. I'm betting the jail bars go away. I may have to just make a temporary one just to find out.

Quick question - are you two using a passive scart to mini rgb adapter on your Framemeister, or a usb powered CSYNC scart to mini rgb adapter?

[CaveManGamer]

No luck.. sync of composite video and sync on luma look IDENTICAL to CSYNC.

I opened the Nintendo end of the SCART cable, made sure the CS# resistor was not there, and then moved the wire between composite video and then luma (Luckily they are in the same row as CS!)

It's something else. I wish we can turn on/off the LPF in the menu; this way we'll know for sure!

Yes, I get jailbars on my Saturn model 2 using a sync-on-luma cable from retro_console_accessories.

The jailbars are also still there when I use the SCART-to-XRGB adapter with the built-in sync stripper, again from retro_console_accessories.

Hah! I just posed that question

[leonk]

Passive for me too..

I actually took the pig tail adapter that came with the XRGB mini and rewired it from JP21 to Euro Scart and made sure all the ground points are there and solid.

I got no issues with SNES Mini with simple RGB amp, Neo Geo AES, Sega Genesis nor NESRGB. As already mentioned, N64RGB modded N64 console with composite video into XRGB is clean.