XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Atari]

Ii! New here. I am working on a stream setup from a vintage arcade setup that I want to upscale with the Framemeister XRGB and have run into a problem I thought perhaps people here could maybe help with.

I'm having trouble with the component input. I'm running CPS2 games via supergun with a j-rok 4.1 video encoder, which has component. However, when I plug this in using the d-terminal adapter, I get no picture. Are there restrictions/limitations on the component input? Or is the problem possibly due to a setting I'm missing?

Alternatively, I'd be interested to run RGB but the problem is on my supergun, the output connector is a 9-pin mini-DIN (for which I have a cable that goes to 3x RCA, presumably with sync on green). So I'm not sure how I can go from this format, add in the sound (via RCA cable) and get it into the Framemeister RGB 8-pin mini DIN. One solution might be: 9-pin mini-DIN to male RCA --> 5 RCA (red, blue, green (presumably with synch on green?), L and R audio) female to Euro SCART --> Euro SCART female to 8-pin mini DIN (from Retro Gaming Cables). But for this, I am unsure if I need the powered version or the passive, and I'm not sure about the sync on the RGB signal I'm generating (though I suspect it's on green).

Another option might be to just convert the component to RGB SCART using something like this: http://www.js-technology.com/store/prod ... roduct=53​ and then SCART -> Framemeister RGB. But this seems overkill given I already have an RGB output.

Does anyone have any thoughts / suggestions on the above? I also have an s-video output on the supergun so for now I'm simply doing s-video into the framemeister. But of course I'd like to do better with component or RGB.

Thanks very much!

[rtw]

Ii! New here. I am working on a stream setup from a vintage arcade setup that I want to upscale with the Framemeister XRGB and have run into a problem I thought perhaps people here could maybe help with.

Welcome

You really want to go the RGB route, the picture quality will be a lot better.

What kind of brand/make is your SuperGun ?

I use the HAS myself which has a direct interface to the Framemeister, supposedly there is a new batch coming out soon:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=52895

[Atari]

You really want to go the RGB route, the picture quality will be a lot better.

What kind of brand/make is your SuperGun ?

I use the HAS myself which has a direct interface to the Framemeister, supposedly there is a new batch coming out soon:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=52895

I have a custom consolized CPS2 board that has both an s-video out, and a 9-pin mini-DIN. It's using the JROK encoder, and there is a switch to select the 9-pin mini DIN output - either RGB with sync, or Composite.

I agree, I want to do RGB but getting the signal into the Framemeister is troublesome. I thought I had a solution by simply going 9-pin to Euro SCART and then Euro SCART to the Framemeister's 8-pin. BUT- this isn't going to work because I need to process the audio getting into the Framemeister via an audio mixer, where we add mics for commentary.

So therefore, the Framemeister's Conponent input is easier, because it has audio RCAs.

The only other thing I can think of is to basically make a custom cable. Buy a 9-pin mini DIN cable, hack into the R, G, B, and Sync pins within that cable, and connect these to a similarly hacked 8-pin mini DIN, where I would also hack a couple female RCAs into the 8-pin cable.

But this is a lot of cable hacking and if I can just get component working, it would alleviate all of this. Is there an issue with the Framemeister's component where a signal such as I'm producing won't work?

[Guspaz]

Or just put a SCART audio breakout adapter between the two SCART plugs. Or use an HDMI audio extractor on the output of the Framemeister. The SCART adapter would be cheaper. Both Retro Console Accessories and Retro Gaming Cables sells these. RGC charges £3.49 for the adapter. I don't remember how much RCA charges, and she doesn't have her inventory up at the moment.

[Fudoh]

So therefore, the Framemeister's Conponent input is easier, because it has audio RCAs.

You can use the RCA audio inputs on the front when feeding RGB video.

[Atari]

Thanks everyone for your help!

So therefore, the Framemeister's Conponent input is easier, because it has audio RCAs.

You can use the RCA audio inputs on the front when feeding RGB video.

Oh that's a game-changer then. I did not know that. That would solve everything as long as it supercedes any audio input in the 8-pin mini-DIN RGB input. Is there any setting that needs to be changed? Or just plug in? I can't do anything about the audio getting into the Framemeister under the current cabling, so it's going to be there. The front RCA jacks would have to "overwrite" the 8-pin audio.

Or just put a SCART audio breakout adapter between the two SCART plugs. Or use an HDMI audio extractor on the output of the Framemeister. The SCART adapter would be cheaper. Both Retro Console Accessories and Retro Gaming Cables sells these. RGC charges £3.49 for the adapter. I don't remember how much RCA charges, and she doesn't have her inventory up at the moment.

I took a look at what they have posted on RGC but I'm not clear that this would work, but could also be missing something. I need to:
1) Get the audio output from the game (this is easy as I can simply use the stereo jacks built into the front of the CPS2 motherboard) and process it (add commentary).
2) Get this processed audio into the Framemeister along with the video.

If I use the SCART breakout from RGC, is it that if I set it to "IN", I could insert my processed audio into the SCART cable? So then what gets into the Framemeister contains MY audio on the L and R pins?

And also, just to comment on the point about processing after the HDMI upconversion has happened via an HDMI audio breakout - I think I'd prefer to not do it this way because I'd be concerned about timing differences/lag.

[Atari]

Ok, I've actually found the spot on the menu where you can toggle between RGB input and the RCAs. So that solves the problem. Thanks so much for your help!

I would still be interested in information on the Component input though. Is there something about the resolution I'd be supplying that the Component input doesn't like, and that's why it's not working?

[Fudoh]

Is there any setting that needs to be changed?

yes, it's a setting. I think RGB Audio. You can toggle between the audio from the Mini-Din connector and the RCA one.

[CkRtech]

It appears that the production of the framemeister is ending - or at least the days are numbered. Micomsoft has stated that the main IC that they use in the unit is having an end to its production. Apparently, they plan to put in a large order to help them keep up their own framemeister production for one year - but obviously when the chip they use is gone, it is gone.

Based on the more recent popularity of the box due to YouTube knowledge spread to the masses, I wonder where they will go from here as well as what they have next in the pipeline (if anything at all).

I suppose they could look for an alternative and design a revision to use it (framemeister 2), but it might just be an internal shift rather than a must-update model.

Source: http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/micomsoft_news3.htm

Thank you very much for your generous support of microcomputer software products on a daily basis.
It was announced that major IC of our product "FRAMEMEISTER" will be finished production. February 2017 will be the last order. In that case, I plan to purchase sufficient stock to last more than 1 year, but I can not purchase additional after February. It will end as soon as stock runs out. In order to ensure delivery, please consult our company or intermediary store, please summarize required plan by February 2017.
We appreciate your understanding and cooperation by customers. We appreciate your continued patronage of our products as well.

* As previously reported, inventory has been temporarily out due to the same IC delay. After restocking in February 2017, we are planning to produce and ship as usual for the time being.

[austin532]

It's had a great run but I think it's time to move on to something better. They've no doubt noticed the impact the OSSC is making and probably have plans to make something similar.

[Fudoh]

Marvell discontinued the QDEO Kyoto G2.

Companies like Micomsoft can do one more order of the chips and Micomsoft will order a good amount. They are trying to ensure availability of the FM into 2018, but I doubt that they'll be able to bring a successor in the same year. 2019 maybe.

[Shuco13]

@Fudoh
Some time ago you mentioned there is still an upcoming firmware release Micomsoft is working on. Since you seem to have a little more insight: Any news on that? Was it discontinued?

[IrishNinja]

It's had a great run but I think it's time to move on to something better. They've no doubt noticed the impact the OSSC is making and probably have plans to make something similar.

agreed - i'm hoping whatever's next has an emphasis on minimizing input lag, and somehow brings down the time between resolution switches!

@Fudoh
Some time ago you mentioned there is still an upcoming firmware release Micomsoft is working on. Since you seem to have a little more insight: Any news on that? Was it discontinued?

i'd like to know this as well!

[NormalFish]

It's had a great run but I think it's time to move on to something better. They've no doubt noticed the impact the OSSC is making and probably have plans to make something similar.

I know very little about micomsoft. Do folks actually think they'd listen to the community -- especially the western end of it -- when designing their next product? Japanese companies can be very slow to adapt.

[austin532]

And very stubborn.

[cruzlink2]

Yea stubborn or not they gave us a great product. What we have to realize is that we are not their main market, their main market is japan where arcade boards are plenty and easy to get. I mean if you look at one of Daigo's interviews in his gaming room he has a freaking a blast city all casual and I bet he didn't pay 1,000 or more like we do in the west if you know what I mean. So yea in Micomsoft's eyes we are just a secondary market, so why should they give us more attention?

[accaris]

Yea stubborn or not they gave us a great product. What we have to realize is that we are not their main market, their main market is japan where arcade boards are plenty and easy to get. I mean if you look at one of Daigo's interviews in his gaming room he has a freaking a blast city all casual and I bet he didn't pay 1,000 or more like we do in the west if you know what I mean. So yea in Micomsoft's eyes we are just a secondary market, so why should they give us more attention?

I'm just talking out of my ass probably, but I'm willing to bet more Framemeisters were sold in the U.S. than in Japan. Arcade boards or not, they had far more A/V options than us. They had the XRGB-1, XRGB-2, and XRGB-3, for one, which were practically unknown here until the retrogaming boom. They had robust CRTs with RGB support. Official brand s-video cables for Super Famicom were common, and most systems supported RGB. So, where the Framemeister was a major revolution for us, it was probably not a huge deal over there.

[orange808]

Micomsoft will need something special to remain relevant. A constant 20ms of latency isn't going to fly.

[NormalFish]

If they don't get sucked in to the traditional conservative stubbornness of Japanese corporations, I expect we'll see something that competes with the ossc. Maybe if they can just find a way to get an extremely fast framemeister but that seems like it would push the cost way out of where it needs to be.

Hoping for something of a line doubler/mini-esque scaled hybrid.

[pyrotek85]

Yea stubborn or not they gave us a great product. What we have to realize is that we are not their main market, their main market is japan where arcade boards are plenty and easy to get. I mean if you look at one of Daigo's interviews in his gaming room he has a freaking a blast city all casual and I bet he didn't pay 1,000 or more like we do in the west if you know what I mean. So yea in Micomsoft's eyes we are just a secondary market, so why should they give us more attention?

I'm just talking out of my ass probably, but I'm willing to bet more Framemeisters were sold in the U.S. than in Japan. Arcade boards or not, they had far more A/V options than us. They had the XRGB-1, XRGB-2, and XRGB-3, for one, which were practically unknown here until the retrogaming boom. They had robust CRTs with RGB support. Official brand s-video cables for Super Famicom were common, and most systems supported RGB. So, where the Framemeister was a major revolution for us, it was probably not a huge deal over there.

I wouldn't be surprised, many of us here in the US grew up on RF and composite video. Why is it that we had such crap standards anyways?

[cruzlink2]

By the ways guys I wasn't trying to be an asshole or anything, I was just trying to point out that framemeister was not made for the western market. If it was then why did we have to buy an overlay from ebay for the remote control to have English functions? The only thing that I think made me think the even notice the western market is when they started release English versions of the firmware.

[Icelvlan]

Was there ever any indication that they would release another product? If no I'll preorder.

[FBX]

Why is it that we had such crap standards anyways?

Likely based on the idea that US consumers simply wouldn't know what they were missing in combination with the cheapest approach to backwards compatibility. They were right of course, but only for so long. Consider Atari tanked in 1983 for similarly underestimating the intelligence of the US consumer.

[Guspaz]

Atari tanked in 1983 because they had no control over their platform and were powerless to prevent the massive influx of cheap crappy games when everybody and their dog started pumping out VCS games.

[CobraKing]

Was there ever any indication that they would release another product? If no I'll preorder.

It would be foolish for them to completely give up on the retro gaming market when it's trending upward. They'll definitely have a successor in the pipeline (if they don't have one already) but they'll have to leverage existing sales of the Mini and other hardware to fund R&D costs.

[orange808]

Atari tanked in 1983 because they had no control over their platform and were powerless to prevent the massive influx of cheap crappy games when everybody and their dog started pumping out VCS games.

The 2600 was six years old in 1983; it was just the natural end of the cycle. The Supersystems weren't any good and the "AAA" Supersystem software was garbage. "Look! Another version of Donkey Kong! Where's my checkbook? In my pocket and it's staying there."

The Commodore 64 replaced the Atari 2600. No shortage of C-64 shovelware, either.

The gaming media just loves their little crash story.

[Guspaz]

The chart of revenues for the entire industry demonstrates conclusively that the crash wasn't just a story. Example:

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/vgs ... 0429034414

Revenue of consumer sales basically disappeared in 1985. The Commodore 64 sold half as many units as the 2600, most of those sales were outside the US (nearly a fifth of all C64s sold were in Germany alone, for example), and not all Commodore 64s were used for gaming. It was popular as a computer, but relative to the 2600 that preceded it or the NES that followed it, not as a gaming platform.

[NJRoadfan]

I wouldn't be surprised, many of us here in the US grew up on RF and composite video. Why is it that we had such crap standards anyways?

Because composite was good enough for NTSC broadcast video, which was the primary viewing content of a home TV. S-Video didn't debut on TVs until 1988 when Sony's Hi-band ED Beta decks and JVC's SVHS decks were released. They were the first devices to feature video recording with bandwidth suppressing 6Mhz (luminance channel only). Even the defacto standard of broadcast recording, Betacam SP, lacked the high bandwidth luminance channels that ED-Beta and SVHS featured..... because broadcast video was limited to a lower resolution. Betacam's advantage was the higher bandwidth chroma channel that was stored on a separate track on the tape (not "colorunder" like consumer formats). The decks featured component output to avoid comb filtering.

15khz TV-RGB output didn't see any widespread use in the consumer market until the Amiga and Atari ST hit the scene in 1984-85. Game consoles didn't see widespread adoption until the 16-bit era (late 80s). Realistically, how many people in Europe were connecting their SNES and Megadrives to their TV via SCART anyway?

[orange808]

The chart of revenues for the entire industry demonstrates conclusively that the crash wasn't just a story. Example:

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/vgs ... 0429034414

Revenue of consumer sales basically disappeared in 1985. The Commodore 64 sold half as many units as the 2600, most of those sales were outside the US (nearly a fifth of all C64s sold were in Germany alone, for example), and not all Commodore 64s were used for gaming. It was popular as a computer, but relative to the 2600 that preceded it or the NES that followed it, not as a gaming platform.

Games didn't die. We were playing Commodore 64's. The casuals got flushed. Game design grew and RPG's appeared--creating a market for home exclusive software with deeper gameplay.

Of course a device for hardcore gamers didn't sell like the 2600. Of course floppy disks and networking invited piracy--we weren't buying every game.

Fewer dollars didn't mean gaming stopped. The popular narrative is a lie written by people like Seanbaby. I think he was five or six in 1983. He couldn't read, copy games, or scheme ways to dial in for wares. Just NES kiddies making up sh*t. The younger "NES generation" gamers fell into a console donut hole between 1983 and 1986. Sucks for them.

[FBX]

Atari tanked in 1983 because they had no control over their platform and were powerless to prevent the massive influx of cheap crappy games when everybody and their dog started pumping out VCS games.

Ever watch "Game Over" documentary about Atari? It was quite simply the corporate suits not giving a shit about customer satisfaction. They oversaturated the market without appreciating whatsoever that people actually cared about QUALITY instead of quantity. They were running the company from the mindset of "these idiot consumers will buy anything that puts graphics on the TV screen, so lets use the cheapest amount of memory and hardware available to mass-produce and make billions of dollars in the process". It was that betrayal of customer trust that made it extremely difficult for Nintendo to get a foot in the door of the US market for their console. I remember reading about them practically begging department stores to give them a chance, and it took a while before they did.