Design preference question: Option aiming

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This kind of option formation should:

Aim toward player's movement
4
50%
Aim away from player's movement
4
50%
 
Total votes: 8

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Giest118
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Design preference question: Option aiming

Post by Giest118 »

So there's a chance that I might be making a shmup.

There's a shot type in this shmup that uses a particular kind of option formation: the kind that aims its shots in any one direction depending on your movement. And I don't mean like the helicopter from the Donpachi series; the options I'm talking about keep their current direction of aim after you stop moving, and they can aim in any direction; in front, the sides, diagonal, or even behind you. There's an option formation in Battle Garegga like this, and Youmu from Imperishable Night does this too.

The question I would like answered is: "Should this type of option formation aim TOWARD your movement, or AWAY from your movement?"
Also, for discussion purposes, does this kind of option formation have a name?

Based on Battle Garegga, the precedent would be for it to aim away from your movement. It makes a sort of intuitive sense; this gives you a way to shoot at something while running away from it.

However, the mechanics in my game reward the player for getting close to enemies. Specifically, for killing them while within a certain close range. Based on that, having the shots aim toward your movement would facilitate doing this easily.

But the game's Focus shot gives you another option: it's a sort of Ketsui-style lock-shot that prioritizes enemies that are close to you, so if you really needed to shoot something right next to you, that's available. (Unlike Ketsui, there is no scoring consequence for using either the Rapid shot or the Focus shot; it's incidental based on how you want to be shooting stuff at the time.)

Regardless of what the options do, the player's ship itself fires shots directly forward.

So, I ask you shmups forum: Should the options aim toward your movement, or away from your movement? Which one makes the most sense, feels the most intuitive, is the least stupid, etc.
If you don't like this kind of option formation, great. There will be others available.
A poll is provided, but if you have specific reasoning to add, I welcome it.
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Post by Cagar »

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Last edited by Cagar on Sat Dec 30, 2023 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jeneki
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Re: Design preference question: Option aiming

Post by Jeneki »

How about like Under Defeat? You can choose either towards or away during ship selection.
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TransatlanticFoe
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Re: Design preference question: Option aiming

Post by TransatlanticFoe »

Both, as per Under Defeat above. Allow it as a preference - sounds like scoring encourages offensive "direction you're moving" aiming while survival probably falls in the "opposite direction" camp. But still, leave it to the player to decide.
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Bananamatic
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Re: Design preference question: Option aiming

Post by Bananamatic »

Giest118 wrote: But the game's Focus shot gives you another option: it's a sort of Ketsui-style lock-shot that prioritizes enemies that are close to you, so if you really needed to shoot something right next to you, that's available. (Unlike Ketsui, there is no scoring consequence for using either the Rapid shot or the Focus shot; it's incidental based on how you want to be shooting stuff at the time.)
If you can't lock the options in place and they flail all over the damn screen even vertically as a consequence of simply moving (how often are you really going to aim behind you?), people are just going to stick to the lock shot by default

Especially if it's not really a lock shot but rather a seeking shot that just automatically aims for you and destroys everything on the screen from any range, unless you balance it carefully then it sounds like the lock/seeking shot would vastly outclass the rapid one, which unless it actually gives you some benefits will just be a pain in the ass to use
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Re: Design preference question: Option aiming

Post by BulletMagnet »

Another vote for "let the player choose".
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Giest118
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Re: Design preference question: Option aiming

Post by Giest118 »

Liking the feedback so far. I hadn't considered giving the player the ability to choose how it works. I'll consider it, but I'm reluctant to do it because there's two other ships with very different option behavior, and if this one alone has a special option like that, it would make it weird that the other two don't. Then again I could make up random extra option formations for the other two ships if it came down to that.
Bananamatic wrote:[some concerns]
Yes, aiming behind you will be an important thing. As will moving around a lot, which would be hindered by the lock shot slowing your movement speed. :V
There will be another ship type that doesn't have the aim-anywhere-based-on-movement options, but even that one will have some of its options aiming forward, and some options aiming backward.

You did bring up something I hadn't considered though, which was the possibility of locking the aim direction of the options. I like that idea. Although I'm not sure how to work that into the control scheme, since I'm reluctant to add more buttons.
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Shepardus
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Re: Design preference question: Option aiming

Post by Shepardus »

A control scheme I've often seen is to make options only rotate when you're not firing, or firing a particular shot type. For example the green "Hunter" shot in Air Gallet has an option that points away from you when you're holding fire but fires in both directions so you actually get both of the styles you describe in one (even that doesn't save it from being terrible). Deathsmiles has different familiar movement depending on whether you're using shot/laser, Warning Forever and I think one of Kagura's shot types in HellSinker allow you to adjust your shot spread by moving around while not firing, and Stuck's plane in Giga Wing has options that rotate in front or behind you but only change direction when you're not firing. Type II in Crimzon Clover has Gradius-style options but locks their positions relative to you when you're using lock shot. I'm pretty sure there's some other really obvious example I'm forgetting.

I would lean away from offering both styles, it's tempting to make everything a choice but it could easily spread you thin trying to design for it.

I'm interested in hearing how you aim to encourage lots of rapid movement - many games fail miserably at that, much to my dismay.
Giest118 wrote:Also, for discussion purposes, does this kind of option formation have a name?
Garegga players call it "trace options."
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Squire Grooktook
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Re: Design preference question: Option aiming

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Giest118 wrote:You did bring up something I hadn't considered though, which was the possibility of locking the aim direction of the options. I like that idea. Although I'm not sure how to work that into the control scheme, since I'm reluctant to add more buttons.
If you don't already have some sort of specific focus attack, holding down to lock aim usually works really good in multidirectional shooters.
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Giest118
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Re: Design preference question: Option aiming

Post by Giest118 »

Squire Grooktook wrote: If you don't already have some sort of specific focus attack, holding down to lock aim usually works really good in multidirectional shooters.
And tap the button to keep the aim freeform?
That could work.
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Re: Design preference question: Option aiming

Post by trap15 »

Yeah, that's a very common way I've seen it handled, and I think it should work well for you too.
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