Dodonpachi Saidaioujou no slowdown glitch

[Bananamatic]

Discovered this while screwing around with replays today

1) record any replay
2) increase the replay speed on the ship selection screen
3) mash the X button to "take over" the replay and play like normally
4) slowdown should be gone due to the game forgetting to turn on the "normal" game logic

Happened every single time at least on Expert with C type, didn't happen when I took over at 1x speed. Not sure how consistent this is, rebooted the 360 once and it still happens every time I take over the controls while the replay isn't at default speed

I guess you could treat it as the steam version preview

[Squire Grooktook]

If only there was a no input lag glitch tho

[AxelMill]

I guess you could treat it as the steam version preview

whens sdoj

[Bananamatic]

with the kind of shit I keep discovering, hopefully never

[Shepardus]

SDOJ is increasingly looking like the best candidate for the next CAVE Steam port since it's got so little to lose.

[Squire Grooktook]

They could fuck up everything else, but if they fixed the input lag, it'd still probably be the more entertaining version.

[AxelMill]

with the kind of shit I keep discovering, hopefully never

Don't be so pessimistic. Maybe DFK won't suck. Maybe it'll be even better than the 360 version. Maybe I'm just delusional.

SDOJ is increasingly looking like the best candidate for the next CAVE Steam port since it's got so little to lose.

*so little to f**k up.

[IseeThings]

Haven't people said the PCB has a lot of lag too?

If that's the case maybe it's intentional, and they buffer the inputs on purpose so that they know where the player will be in x frames in order to trigger events based on the future position.

It sounds lame, and is completely unsuitable for shooters, but that was exactly the case for another piece of software I worked on, the project manager considered it a 'predictive AI feature' and was very proud of the idea (even wanted to patent it, although I don't think he did) because it could 'react to players' 'before they've made the move'

[Durandal]

It sounds lame, and is completely unsuitable for shooters, but that was exactly the case for another piece of software I worked on, the project manager considered it a 'predictive AI feature' and was very proud of the idea (even wanted to patent it, although I don't think he did) because it could 'react to players' 'before they've made the move'

The initial battle against Dante in DMC4 did essentially the same thing by having Dante read your inputs, but it didn't resort to input lag

[Squire Grooktook]

Haven't people said the PCB has a lot of lag too?

No. The PCB owners here have stressed that it's much, much, much worse on 360. Playing the two side by side is like night and day, apparently.

They fucked it up. Pure and simple.

[Sumez]

The initial battle against Dante in DMC4 did essentially the same thing by having Dante read your inputs, but it didn't resort to input lag

It's a pretty classic thing to do. I'm not sure what game was the first to do it, but Donkey Kong famously tries to fuck you over with its barrels by reading your input. Coincidentally, that can be used to manipulate the game and actually makes the barrel stages easier as the internal rank increases. Provided you know what you're doing, of course.

[Bananamatic]

The initial battle against Dante in DMC4 did essentially the same thing by having Dante read your inputs, but it didn't resort to input lag

The second one does the same thing and it's a shit fight based around AI abuse unlike the Vergil fights in DMC3

No. The PCB owners here have stressed that it's much, much, much worse on 360. Playing the two side by side is like night and day, apparently.
They fucked it up. Pure and simple.

PCB has shit sound due to bad hardware or something

The controls on the port are so damn bad that I doubt it would ever be ever popular in arcades if it was just as bad on the PCB

[IseeThings]

It sounds lame, and is completely unsuitable for shooters, but that was exactly the case for another piece of software I worked on, the project manager considered it a 'predictive AI feature' and was very proud of the idea (even wanted to patent it, although I don't think he did) because it could 'react to players' 'before they've made the move'

The initial battle against Dante in DMC4 did essentially the same thing by having Dante read your inputs, but it didn't resort to input lag

Modern 3D games are less about pixel precision anyway tho, if you look at the majority of them there is a decent amount of 'lag' from the animations alone so you have a timeframe to do it in.

In a shooter, knowing that in 4 frames the player will be in X position 4 pixels away, and having the AI react to that 3 frames before is a really cheap way to increase the difficulty for all the wrong reasons.

Anyway, it's been said the port is messed up rather than anything else, although since people make similar complaints about the emulation of the existing CV1K games (when emulation only adds 1 unavoidable frame) I do wonder. Old CRTs are going to have a better response than most modern panels, or wireless pads etc. mind you, and while we're only talking a couple of frames it might be enough to tip the balance between 'playable' on a PCB and trash on a modern console.

[Bananamatic]

Anyway, it's been said the port is messed up rather than anything else, although since people make similar complaints about the emulation of the existing CV1K games (when emulation only adds 1 unavoidable frame) I do wonder. Old CRTs are going to have a better response than most modern panels, or wireless pads etc. mind you, and while we're only talking a couple of frames it might be enough to tip the balance between 'playable' on a PCB and trash on a modern console.

There's noticeable lag even in all the cv1k cave-made 360 ports and steam mushi (even on a CRT), which makes me wonder how much lag is actually added by 360/pc compared to the PCB
Of course somehow SDOJ is even worse than the other cv1k cave ports somehow so they fucked up

M2 gave you lag options in futari where you can adjust lag from 0 to 2 (PCB) and even worse and the jump from 0 to 2 is noticeable by pretty much anyone I asked
If they actually correspond to the amount of frame delay and cv1k has native 2 frames of lag and the 360 adds 2 frames more than the PCB then the 0 setting would correspond to arcade
In emulation it would be 2 from the game+1 from the emulator+whatever the PC adds so it will feel like total trash regardless of what you'll do

Either M2 was aware of the issue of porting games with native input lag unlike cave or they straight up gave you a way to play "easier" futari than on the PCB, wish I could play those games on a cab somewhere to see the differences myself

[OlDirty]

I have the SDJ running on my XBOX 360 which is connected to my Cab. I can't feel any input lag when playing like this. Plays like all my Cave PCBs. But i'm not a Superplayer, so maybe it's because of that . If i connect the XBOX 360 to my beamer it's unplayable. Maybe the TV adds lag?

[OmegaFlareX]

HDTVs absolutely add input delay. Nowadays most of them have a "game mode" which turns off some internal processing that contributes to it.

[e_tank]

@Bananamatic
here's my _guess_ for what kind of average response time (avg time from button press to when the frame that shows a response is fully on the display) futari has on both xbox 360 and arcade hardware, first x360:

0V = (25, 58.33) ms, so lets further guess and just say 41.67 ms (2.5 frames)
1V = 58.33 ms (3.5 frames)
2V = 75 ms (4.5 frames) - same as ultra sfiv

assuming it's accurate, according to mame futari has an avg response time of either 41.67 ms or 58.33 ms. idk which as that would require knowing whether mame emulates vblank at the start or end per frame step for the hardware the game runs on.

for comparison most 60 fps games on raster hardware from the 8/16 bit console gens had an avg response time of 41.67 ms, and on most 3d hardware from then on it became 58.33 ms.

[Skykid]

Haven't people said the PCB has a lot of lag too?

No. The PCB owners here have stressed that it's much, much, much worse on 360. Playing the two side by side is like night and day, apparently.

They fucked it up. Pure and simple.

It is ten times more apparent on 360. PCB is fine, I was playing in the arcade the other week.

It's mainly SDOJ's weird hotboxes that make it feel slightly unusual, but the PCB input lag is barely there.

There will be a time when Cave's back catalogue is ported to console again and fixes are implemented, but I'm hoping Steam gets there first for this one.

Really bothers me there's no patch for the physical release though. What a shame.

[Despatche]

I still fail to understand how all of these people who are neither Japanese commercial game developers, nor anywhere near good enough at these games for slowdown to matter, can fight for slowdown like it's this massive problem facing the genre. It's already a blatant disregard for the simple fact of a port inherently being completely secondary to actually going to an arcade and playing the actual arcade release, the thing that actually made CAVE's arcade division whatever money they possibly could have all these years.

I could actually get behind things like the PinkSweets infinite lives fix and the Mushihimesama supershot fix, but the addition or removal of slowdown simply doesn't overwrite game mechanics like those do.

Port accuracy, and everyone being on the same page in a competition, are two inherently good things. They're also very abstract things that an incredibly small handful of people in this forum can even begin to be qualified to outright want and to judge if either is in working order. I simply do not understand where the leap in logic is coming from. I'm trying very hard to ignore the attempt at a very vague and mindless technocracy, but there is no better explanation for this bizarre phenomenon. What the hell is your actual motive?

[trap15]

Playing on an equal ground to other players of the same game is a pretty good motive.

[Despatche]

Part of my argument is that the vast majority of people taking issue with slowdown either find it overwhelmingly difficult to play or are outright incapable of playing on an equal ground to arcade players, even if you put them in the actual arcade. The vast majority of that vast majority almost seem proud of this.