Degica Shmups Thread

[Van_Artic]

Are there any videos online that show the slowdown differences between the Steam port and other versions of Deathsmiles?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQLd-L_CFIM steam version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyFd3zG0_TU xbox 360

just look at the first stage back to back
unacceptable and a waste of 20 bux

[rtw]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQLd-L_CFIM steam version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyFd3zG0_TU xbox 360

just look at the first stage back to back
unacceptable and a waste of 20 bux

The steam version selects level 3
The Xbox 360 selects level 999

We must not compare apples and oranges ...

[Van_Artic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQLd-L_CFIM steam version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyFd3zG0_TU xbox 360

just look at the first stage back to back
unacceptable and a waste of 20 bux

The steam version selects level 3
The Xbox 360 selects level 999

We must not compare apples and oranges ...

its still the same thing at lvl999
tried on ice palace in training mode
i can record it if you dont believe me w

[rtw]

@Van_Artic, I fully believe that there is lack of slowdown in DSMBL, just that the example chosen was not the best.

What we need is a nice video which shows a comparison between PC and XBOX360 preferably side by side.

Sadly I do not have any video capture equipment.

[Van_Artic]

@Van_Artic, I fully believe that there is lack of slowdown in DSMBL, just that the example chosen was not the best.

What we need is a nice video which shows a comparison between PC and XBOX360 preferably side by side.

Sadly I do not have any video capture equipment.

yeah sorry bout that, but at least you get it
also yeah, id love to make something like it as well

[CloudyMusic]

Xbox 360 Ice Palace
PC Ice Palace

It's not 100% apples-to-apples because the first replay is in Fever Mode, but it should still be apparent that the PC version has less slowdown. I've played on the unpatched NA version before (apparently the patch doesn't appear in the Games on Demand version of the game, or maybe it's just me?), and the difference is pretty noticeable.

[NickPalmerDegica]

The problem with the slowdown in Deathsmiles is that the way the game is programmed, it has no internal clock. As we know, the slowdown in the Arcade version comes from hardware limitations (as is the case with all CAVE games), so an internal clock was not needed to make it consistent, the game would be consistent based on the hardware being consistent.

In the 360 version, it is also easy to just match it up to the hardware to get the slowdown correct, so an internal clock isn't necessary.

On the PC though... With so many different hardware profiles, there would be no way to get the slowdown consistent without an internal clock in the game to track it. The only way to get the slowdown would be to either accept that the game would play differently on different rigs, or do major major reprogramming of the game.

We understand the desire for a 1:1 translation from the arcade version, but we aren't sure if it is going to be possible in this case. This isn't a final announcement on this, only an explanation of the issues we are facing with it. (and right now, the PC crew at Cave is focused on getting DDP polished up).

Luckily this was not the case with Mushihimesama or DDP, which were both originally programmed with an internal clock to match against.

[Despatche]

If that's the case, why does Mushihimesama still have so much missing slowdown?

[Firehawke]

Thanks for the explanation. Not a great situation to have backed themselves into, but it does make some sense from a code standpoint. I just hope that adding the internal clock doesn't get considered "too much work" down the road.

[NickPalmerDegica]

If that's the case, then why is the Deathsmiles slowdown generally reported as identical to the original US 360 release, and why does Mushihimesama still have so much missing slowdown?

Because fixing the 360 version just involved slowing it down based on the hardware. Cave can't match the slowdown to the hardware for PC version, because there isn't a universal hardware profile to match against.

We are aware of missing slowdown for one section of Mushihimesama, but wasn't aware that there was a lot of other missing slowdown. Can you point me to a full list of what isn't done correctly.

[Jaimers]

A Japanese player on Nico compared the Ice Palace on the Steam version to the Ice Palace on the 360 version using the same high scoring route.

The Ice Palace on the Steam version is literally 3 minutes and 37 seconds shorter.

[EmperorIng]

^I'm happy to see that Cave has decided to trim down the fat and stop wasting peoples' time with their PC ports. They're practically giving you more opportunities to go outside or something.

[OmegaFlareX]

Changing my post to put forth an idea for Cave:

How about, instead of spending time trying to emulate the original hardware limitations, you let the game run at full tilt and devote that development time to making adjustments to the gameplay elements to compensate?

Inevitable "BUT IT'S NOT ARCADE ACCURATE" from players

If wanting to compete with top JP players is important to them, they can buy a PCB.

[CloudyMusic]

I've stated many times in this thread that the lack of slowdown is only in MBL 1.1. Buy it and play MBL 1.0.

The video Jaimers linked is the MBL 1.0 world record holder playing MBL 1.0 on the PC port. Here's the same player playing MBL 1.0 on the Xbox 360 port.

[Elixir]

If wanting to compete with top JP players is important to them, they can buy a PCB.

There is no MBL 1.1 PCB. MBL and MBL 1.1 are two different game modes entirely. You sure you know what you're talking about?

[Firehawke]

Changing my post to put forth an idea for Cave:

How about, instead of spending time trying to emulate the original hardware limitations, you let the game run at full tilt and devote that development time to making adjustments to the gameplay elements to compensate?

Inevitable "BUT IT'S NOT ARCADE ACCURATE" from players

If wanting to compete with top JP players is important to them, they can buy a PCB.

Buying a PCB is not an option. Repair parts for the boards are no longer viable, and the flash they used is starting to show serious defects. It's bad enough that there are actual concerns about whether we'll get correct dumps for some of the games that aren't already dumped.

[OmegaFlareX]

You sure you know what you're talking about?

No I keep forgetting that these are ports of ports.

Buying a PCB is not an option. Repair parts for the boards are no longer viable, and the flash they used is starting to show serious defects. It's bad enough that there are actual concerns about whether we'll get correct dumps for some of the games that aren't already dumped.

This is really unfortunate. Hopefully MAME will get it right eventually.

[mamboFoxtrot]

A Japanese player on Nico compared the Ice Palace on the Steam version to the Ice Palace on the 360 version using the same high scoring route.

The Ice Palace on the Steam version is literally 3 minutes and 37 seconds shorter.

tbh that sounds a good reason to buy the steam version!
the excessive slowdown in DS is one of the reasons I don't play it a lot. I hope the AK port (if it happens) is the same way.
#FilthyCasualOpinions

[Hurst]

release date september 8 according to http://www.caveshmups.com/dodonpachi

[rtw]

Suddenly a wild Deathsmiles comparison video appears from cavepcb

https://youtu.be/s2-X7PONBY0

Check it out Degica and feel free to forward it to CAVE.

[Xyga]

Holy smoke quite the difference.

Well Cave could simply tell people to git gud, but if they can't ever fix it into matching the orignal then they'd better rename that mode through an update (it would become exclusive to the Steam port).

[ElOhTeeBee]

release date september 8 according to http://www.caveshmups.com/dodonpachi

No price point. Ah well.

Spoiler

I don't care about the slowdown not being arcade-perfect, because I'm never going to be able to play the game in arcades and I can't afford a J360 anyway.

[Oniros]

Suddenly a wild Deathsmiles comparison video appears from cavepcb

https://youtu.be/s2-X7PONBY0

Check it out Degica and feel free to forward it to CAVE.

Now I don't feel so bad about having imported a NTSC-J X360 little before Cave started releasing their games on Steam.

Holy smoke quite the difference.

Well Cave could simply tell people to git gud, but if they can't ever fix it into matching the orignal then they'd better rename that mode through an update (it would become exclusive to the Steam port).

"It's not a bug, it's a feature!"

[EmperorIng]

The Ice Palace on the Steam version is literally 3 minutes and 37 seconds shorter.

tbh that sounds a good reason to buy the steam version!
the excessive slowdown in DS is one of the reasons I don't play it a lot. I hope the AK port (if it happens) is the same way.
#FilthyCasualOpinions

Finally seeing the Deathsmiles ports side-by-side, you'd think the PC was the arcade release and the 360 was the Genesis port. Constant slowdown, yuck!

[Xyga]

Finally seeing the Deathsmiles ports side-by-side, you'd think the PC was the arcade release and the 360 was the SNES port. Constant slowdown, yuck!

Fixed that for you. :p

[Shepardus]

Honestly the Steam version looks more fun to me

[CloudyMusic]

The DS high score thread currently has no PC version score submissions at all, so by all means...

[CStarFlare]

I miss DS a lot but I've held off of buying the Steam version - if it were just 1.1 that's fucked it'd be one thing, but I'd like to have reasonably good AC versions for scoring/competitive purposes.

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Suddenly a wild Deathsmiles comparison video appears from cavepcb

https://youtu.be/s2-X7PONBY0

Check it out Degica and feel free to forward it to CAVE.

Whew. The difference is absolutely massive.

[Van_Artic]

its funny cause vanilla and arcade 1.1 are fine lol
also regarding the video; steam MBL is utterly unplayable in this state like i said multiple times

this is the 360 US release all over again that in one patch, it was back to normal