I DID IT! Share your latest 1CCs/other triumphs here...

[chempop]

My first ever CAVE no-miss/1LC Mushi 1.5 original, rapid off of course

[Bananamatic]

I don't think rapid does anything in 1.5 original

[chempop]

Well I was hammering away on the laser/focus button I meant
Thinking about it, are there even settings for accomplishing that without tapping?

[Bananamatic]

So you weren't using the C button for rapid fire? Or were you trying to use the powershot which doesn't exist in 1.5?

[chempop]

Was using C, but wasn't using a custom auto-rapid rate for it on another button though.
I WAS trying to powershot, seemed to me I was doing more damage Maybe I was just making things more exciting

Are you 100% sure there is no powershot in 1.5? I was bouncing between modes the last few days so it may have just had a placebo effect when I was doing it in 1.5 original.

[Bananamatic]

tapping shot in 1.0 is a waste of time either way, you'll never reach the required rates to get noticeable damage increase manually, it's barely an advantage for survival outside of ultra and all it does it take away attention from dodging and screw up your movement

I don't think it even works outside of point blank range anyways

[chempop]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. I notice boss health deplete nearly twice as fast at good range, sometimes killing them off before they even get a chance to fill the screen with many of their attacks. There are still moments where I cool down and hold focus, but every other chance I have it's mr. flutter-fingers.

You say there is no powershot in 1.5, now you say it's not worth doing in 1.0. Not really sure where you are going with this. Unless it's your typical way of belittling other people's accomplishments that has been going on for years.

[Bananamatic]

I notice boss health deplete nearly twice as fast at good range

that's because of point blanking, not powershot
you always do much more damage at close range in mushi

You say there is no powershot in 1.5, now you say it's not worth doing in 1.0

that's because both are correct if you aren't using preset autofire rates, mentioned 1.0 because it doesn't simply exist in 1.5

In 1.0, at optimal automatic rates the gain in power from W-power is around 33% extra power at absolute point blank, and absolutely no change in damage at max range or even halfway up the screen

with S it's apparently way less (and different types have the optimal point at different rates, not just faster=better) and M can't power shot pretty much at all, so even if the mechanics were 1:1, you'd gain basically nothing at manual, suboptimal rates with M-power on top of that

In 1.5, W power can do around 55%-60% damage just holding A to the TLB ultra final attack, if the super shot existed then you would shred it apart so fast that you'd kill him with just 1 miss using the death trick, which isn't happening from what we see in the replays

in short, with W type:
-if you mash A while holding C in 1.0 while not being at very point blank, you're just wearing out your buttons, your right hand and you're not able to see your hitbox or move at slower speed
-if you mash A while holding C in 1.0 at point blank suboptimally, you get maybe a 10%-20% boost, which might make boss battles last slightly less time if you're not point blanking all the time
-if you use optimal autofire in 1.0 at point blank, you get a 33% damage boost (and only with W-power) - not a gamebreaking double damage or whatever people think it is

in 1.5 and arrange:
-it does absolutely nothing to your damage output unless you hate the cab operator and want to break their buttons faster or need a carpal tunnel for whatever reason

but if you think this is just "belittling other people's accomplishments" then go ahead and mash for no reason

[chempop]

Alright, you schooled me there. I do appreciate the info.
I use M-type btw, seems like it got significantly better in 1.5, but who knows I'm probably wrong about that too, maybe it's 11-14% weaker

[Bananamatic]

M power is broken as hell in 1.5, it outdamages everything except W at point blank
S is just kind of there as M seems to bought outdamage it at any range and it has spread on top of that

[Leandro]

Just 1cced Mushi 1.5 on Steam... Actually I don't even know how to play the game, I hold X button all the time and when I want to move slower I hold A. Using Xbox 360 pad lol

The game is awesome, the last stage feels easier than the previous due to the enemy cancelling bullets

[Vludi]

2-All'd Sengoku Ace, pretty easy for Psikyo standards so I consider this more like a Video System 2-All.

[Perikles]

I've got 333 1CCs now, that's a rad number worth mentioning. Mostly arcade games again, but I've also closed some other gaps: I've cleared some essential NES shooters (Recca, Sqoon, Zanac) and also finally got around to beating all the main Gradius games - the only console games I really want to finish now are Einhänder and R-Type Final (the latter just to conclude the series). The most pleasant surprise was Viper Phase 1 (New Version), that's going to have a permanent place on my top 25 from now on out. I do like all the Raiden games I've played so far, VP1 I love, though. The faster ship (compared to the Raiden series) and utmost focus on point-blanking everything and anything paired with the usual grandioseness of explosions and debris flying everywhere is magnificent. Biggest disappointment was A-JAX, was not expecting an arcade Konami game to be this bad. A few separate notes on some NES games:

- 1942 was a horrific accident. I had it in my Everdrive folder and decided to test it out. I was appalled after two stages, but said to myself I would see this credit to its end since I've spent some time already. lo and behold, I cleared it on the same first credit, wading through 32 abysmal stages.

- I didn't enjoy Famicom Terra Cresta all that much and then discovered that the NES version has a significantly faster ship which makes it a lot more energetic. I don't like that you can't really tell precisely when you've looped it and some design choices are rather questionable, it's fairly decent overall, though.

- NES Sky Shark (there's no Famicom version) is much harder than arcade Hishouzame, for all the wrong reasons (1 loop only, higher loops of Hishouzame are much harder, of course). You zip around the screen with absurd velocity and have to deal with one of the biggest hitboxes in existence, massive flicker and surprisingly aggressive enemies. It's impossible to fit in-between even the simplest spread patterns, you either have to avoid it altogether or bomb. Now, bombing only works if you don't shoot at the same time, very convenient. It's a real shame, Tim Follin's soundtrack is great as usual, and the other ports of Toaplan games are also delectable (Kyuukyoku Tiger is about as good as you can have it on the system and Tiger-Heli is thoroughly excellent despite the flicker; it's somewhat unplayable after the first loop since you can't see anything anymore, the first loop is great on the other hand).

- Glad I got rid of those TwinBee games. Hate the first two games because the process of bell juggling is apparently random. Trying to get what you want is an exercise in frustration. I never managed to get a single shield in Moero, actually. Third game is much better since the bell cycle is fixed, as it should be. It's a bit too easy, counterstopping it even on Hard is no problem, but better that than the other way around.

- Cleared Zanac three times which is uncommon for me. At first I was indifferent, then I liked it, now I love it. Granted, weapon 7 is too strong, it doesn't automatically win the game for you, however. It's still very easy to die somewhere and then be stranded with the weak default shot, resulting in more deaths. You can do all kinds of fun stuff (using weapon 6, for example!), the action never lets up, scarcely any flicker, it's just solid elegance. Had to get a 1LC with a good score on top.

- Sqoon! Essentially the perfect game, if only it would get harder upon looping. I guess they couldn't add more enemies due to the technical limitations, and I'm thankful they didn't try to. I don't mind slowdowns, but the NES has a despicable tendency to endure in nasty flicker or it eats your inputs entirely (some games can't be played with autofire due to the on-screen sprite limit...). Which brings me to...

- Recca. I don't like it. Yes, it's much, much better than most games on the system. Can't stand all the flicker, though. The "stages" are also pretty lopsided, you can just sit in place most of the time if you have homing and the seeker options equipped. Some boss fights are admittedly fairly great.

[trap15]

VP1 I love, though.

What's your opinion on New Ver. vs. Old Ver.? Personally I prefer Old Ver. because the extra strategy and skill required for using the subweapons is a lot more interesting than the added medal system and infinite subweapons in New Ver., but I'm curious what you think.

At first I was indifferent, then I liked it, now I love it.

I had the same reasoning on it, it's strangely compelling despite weapon 7 being overpowered, mostly because of the rest of what you said Very fun game, despite it being quite easy to class as Yet Another Fucked Compile Shooter.

Recca. I don't like it.

Your opinion also matches mine here The stages range from brutally hard for all the wrong reasons to boringly easy. But the bosses are generally quite awesome indeed. It's surprising to see someone else here say they don't actually like Recca, as it's generally one of the games people like a ton, but yes when you get down to it, it's not great.

On that note, have you played ChoRenSha 68k extensively? I'm kind of curious about your opinion on it. For the longest time I thought it was amazing, and only once I started seriously chasing the 2-all did I realize that actually it's kind of bad aside from the boss fights, the game system, the graphics, and the music.

I've got 333 1CCs now, that's a rad number worth mentioning.

Congrats, that's some crazy shit.

[Squire Grooktook]

Cho Ren Sha must be played on hard for the real game imo. Suicide bullets may be dumb in theory, but that particular brand of rng purple laser forces so many sweeping macro dodges and reactions, it becomes an absolute joy to play. Tied as my numero uno shmup favorite, in fact.

[Perikles]

What's your opinion on New Ver. vs. Old Ver.? Personally I prefer Old Ver. because the extra strategy and skill required for using the subweapons is a lot more interesting than the added medal system and infinite subweapons in New Ver., but I'm curious what you think.

I'd have to play the Old Ver. more before I can reach a profound judgement, but as of now I strongly prefer the New Version. I agree with your point on theoretical terms, and it's a novel concept for sure. But since the game gets so tough even with the guidance of unlimited vulcan rounds (you're constantly on the move in later stages and even with a solid route you're barely able to keep up with all the point-blanking) I feel moreso at home with that. It's also simply satisfying to have such massive firepower at all times.

On that note, have you played ChoRenSha 68k extensively?

My knowledge of computer shmups can best be described with "Hic sunt leones". Maybe I get around to it one day, I'm aware there're many great games out there.

Congrats, that's some crazy shit.

Thanks! I know that there are several trivial clears on that list, but I like discovering a broad selection of games nonetheless. You might find the occasional diamond in the rough, too!

[trap15]

Cho Ren Sha must be played on hard for the real game imo. Suicide bullets may be dumb in theory, but that particular brand of rng purple laser forces so many sweeping macro dodges and reactions, it becomes an absolute joy to play. Tied as my numero uno shmup favorite, in fact.

If anything, the suicide bullets confirmed my opinion that it's not a good game. Suicide bullets are fucking shit, fam.

[Tatsuya79]

1CCed Cyber Core on PC-Engine to my own surprise.
I was thinking there was another level after the end boss honestly.

That's a game I had on a Turbografx back in the days. I had a love/hate relationship with it and I understand why now.
When you suck at shmups having a ship that grows bigger with power ups is incredibly frustrating.
I also used to (and still do) rather dislike multiple levels separated attacks (like in Xevious).

But now that I'm a bit better at shmups and playing with the red ship to easily kill everything on the ground, I really enjoy this game.
I used to play it a bit like perhaps once a month? so that could be my 2 cents in the "casual play can 1cc or not" debate.

And those musics are so good.
<3 Pc-Engine

[Squire Grooktook]

Cho Ren Sha must be played on hard for the real game imo. Suicide bullets may be dumb in theory, but that particular brand of rng purple laser forces so many sweeping macro dodges and reactions, it becomes an absolute joy to play. Tied as my numero uno shmup favorite, in fact.

If anything, the suicide bullets confirmed my opinion that it's not a good game. Suicide bullets are fucking shit, fam.

In general, I'm inclined to agree. But for me at least, when something works, it works. CRS68K-Hard is my favorite manic gaming experience, even if it is a rickety hodgepodge.

On normal, I wouldn't call it a bad game either though. It's solid in every regard. It's just too long and easy for a veteran shmup player. For newcomers though, it's great. Far more meaningful enemy placements and faster pacing than most too-long-too-easy Compile shooters. I've seen this work as a gateway shmup for a lot of people.

[Shepardus]

Far more meaningful enemy placements and faster pacing than most too-long-too-easy Compile shooters.

Or Wing Force *cough*

[trap15]

At least Wing Force doesn't have the Truxton-isms of CRS. Heavily repeated patterns that grind into your skull how much time you're wasting on a video game. I think I'd die happy if I never see the stupid "thick plane with the 2-way and 2 random-spread plane" pattern from stage 1 again in my life. Literally why would you repeat that 8 times consecutively. The rest of the stage designs similarly drag on way too heavy with the same or very similar patterns constantly repeating.

[Squire Grooktook]

I think we're veering into the realm of subjective so I won't force it too much, but I feel CRS68K stands on the right side of "rhythm" without falling into "repetition". For the most part, you get a nice "left/right" repetition of enemies to keep you dancing from side to side on the screen, but it never goes on for too long (ie very few enemy formations appear > 2 times).

I don't really know which pattern you're thinking of that gets repeated 8 times, at any rate. There is a host of recurring enemies (something I like), but they gain progressively greater ranks and are mixed in with other enemies to freshen and change things up, so I dunno maybe it's just a matter of being able to tell the differences between each progressive variant of the wave or not. Also it's hard to talk about the stage designs as a whole, but stages 3, 5, 6, and 0 are sublime IMO. 0 in particular is a masterpiece on hard.

But again, that's one of the reasons why I enjoy hard mode. rng purple lasers makes every one of those waves feel different while forcing you to reactively tackle them with each possible route. I guess on normal, things might feel more repetitive to a veteran player, because you'll be killing things faster and more easily sight reading everything, reducing the patterns to simplistic movements.

[Shepardus]

At least Wing Force doesn't have the Truxton-isms of CRS. Heavily repeated patterns that grind into your skull how much time you're wasting on a video game.

I'm beginning to doubt you played the same Wing Force I did. Does your version of Wing Force not have stage 3? Does stage 4 actually manage to present something remotely engaging in the Wing Force you claim to be so great? Despite being shorter than some Psikyo games, Wing Force manages to feel like it's dragging on for an eternity because there's literally nothing to do for large stretches of the game, unless you count holding fire and sitting in a safespot the size of the screen as "doing something." Even when it's not outright repeating itself it may as well because it makes no difference to the gameplay if you're doing nothing either way. It's not like the bosses provide much in the way of fun gameplay either. Neither does the second loop (oh god it loops, I thought you hated loops) - if you didn't notice that stage 4 clip I linked is actually 2-4, but I wouldn't blame you if you didn't notice because it's just as utterly boring as the first loop. But oh wait, it's got "neat designs" like cars getting sucked into the background so it's all good, great game you dug out there.

There are easy games that are fun, which I would consider Cho Ren Sha 68k on Normal to be, and then there are games that fail to provide any sense of engagement when you remove (or forget to add) the challenge. Wing Force is my go-to example of that. It's also a prime example of why I hesitate to recommend "easy" games as "beginner-friendly," because if Wing Force were my introduction to shmups I would have left the genre there and never looked back.

[Squire Grooktook]

Come, come, let us not grow too snarky :3

I think I would simply conclude that, whether it meets ones personal tastes or not, CRS68K is a well-made game that easily qualifies as "good" by almost any reasonable metric.

Except the repeating background obviously.

[Vludi]

Wing Force looks solid to me, it just suffers from Darius Gaiden/Area 88 syndrome.

[Shepardus]

The bosses are at least somewhat threatening if you don't use autofire (well at least the stage 4 boss is), but the other issues I have with the game remain. And before you ask, it's not much better playing for score either (if it is at all better). I feel sorry for everyone who's going to be subjected to that when the game inevitably appears in TRP-STGT, because to be completely honest I enjoyed playing Sand Scorpion more than I did Wing Force.

Wing Force has a cool soundtrack though, I'll give it that.

If this goes on much longer it should probably be split out into another thread.

[EmperorIng]

lol c'mon, Sand Scorpion? Wing Force might be easy, but at least it is pleasantly easy. Aside from the sort of boring tank-run in stage 4, it at least has something nice to look at, listen at, and play. Not so with Sand Scorpion, aka "Slow-Down Festival," starring the world's most under-powered Raiden knock-off versus a rogue's gallery of boxes, spinning cylinders, boxes attached to other boxes, boxes that split up into triangles, and a giant red ball.

And to my never-ending amusement I thought Sand Scorpion would suck the most that year but then along came Zing Zing Zip.

[Squire Grooktook]

Sand Scorpion has kinda decent point blanking a few decent hectic moments.

But I'd probably take the worst Compile game over it because it just feels ugly to play.

[Ako]

I've got 333 1CCs now, that's a rad number worth mentioning. Mostly arcade games again, but I've also closed some other gaps: I've cleared some essential NES shooters (Recca, Sqoon, Zanac) and also finally got around to beating all the main Gradius games - the only console games I really want to finish now are Einhänder and R-Type Final (the latter just to conclude the series). The most pleasant surprise was Viper Phase 1 (New Version), that's going to have a permanent place on my top 25 from now on out. I do like all the Raiden games I've played so far, VP1 I love, though. The faster ship (compared to the Raiden series) and utmost focus on point-blanking everything and anything paired with the usual grandioseness of explosions and debris flying everywhere is magnificent. Biggest disappointment was A-JAX, was not expecting an arcade Konami game to be this bad. A few separate notes on some NES games:

- 1942 was a horrific accident. I had it in my Everdrive folder and decided to test it out. I was appalled after two stages, but said to myself I would see this credit to its end since I've spent some time already. lo and behold, I cleared it on the same first credit, wading through 32 abysmal stages.

- I didn't enjoy Famicom Terra Cresta all that much and then discovered that the NES version has a significantly faster ship which makes it a lot more energetic. I don't like that you can't really tell precisely when you've looped it and some design choices are rather questionable, it's fairly decent overall, though.

- NES Sky Shark (there's no Famicom version) is much harder than arcade Hishouzame, for all the wrong reasons (1 loop only, higher loops of Hishouzame are much harder, of course). You zip around the screen with absurd velocity and have to deal with one of the biggest hitboxes in existence, massive flicker and surprisingly aggressive enemies. It's impossible to fit in-between even the simplest spread patterns, you either have to avoid it altogether or bomb. Now, bombing only works if you don't shoot at the same time, very convenient. It's a real shame, Tim Follin's soundtrack is great as usual, and the other ports of Toaplan games are also delectable (Kyuukyoku Tiger is about as good as you can have it on the system and Tiger-Heli is thoroughly excellent despite the flicker; it's somewhat unplayable after the first loop since you can't see anything anymore, the first loop is great on the other hand).

- Glad I got rid of those TwinBee games. Hate the first two games because the process of bell juggling is apparently random. Trying to get what you want is an exercise in frustration. I never managed to get a single shield in Moero, actually. Third game is much better since the bell cycle is fixed, as it should be. It's a bit too easy, counterstopping it even on Hard is no problem, but better that than the other way around.

- Cleared Zanac three times which is uncommon for me. At first I was indifferent, then I liked it, now I love it. Granted, weapon 7 is too strong, it doesn't automatically win the game for you, however. It's still very easy to die somewhere and then be stranded with the weak default shot, resulting in more deaths. You can do all kinds of fun stuff (using weapon 6, for example!), the action never lets up, scarcely any flicker, it's just solid elegance. Had to get a 1LC with a good score on top.

- Sqoon! Essentially the perfect game, if only it would get harder upon looping. I guess they couldn't add more enemies due to the technical limitations, and I'm thankful they didn't try to. I don't mind slowdowns, but the NES has a despicable tendency to endure in nasty flicker or it eats your inputs entirely (some games can't be played with autofire due to the on-screen sprite limit...). Which brings me to...

- Recca. I don't like it. Yes, it's much, much better than most games on the system. Can't stand all the flicker, though. The "stages" are also pretty lopsided, you can just sit in place most of the time if you have homing and the seeker options equipped. Some boss fights are admittedly fairly great.

sounds like it's time to create the definitive difficulty list of every shmup ever

[The Armchair General]

Got a new Donpachi PB and the highest type-B score outside of Japan (to my knowledge) with the previous highest score being 23.48 mil by Menoslug



(vid)

Lots of dumb mistakes in the first loop which costs me nearly 4 mil and the 2 deaths in the second loop are pretty silly. I am very happy with my 2-5 play (I got the YOLO chain! ). Easily the most clutch STG run I've ever had. This run can denfinetly be improved without changing my route but I don't know if I want to do more type B runs.

Type B also makes DP a bit harder. If I were the add to that silly difficulty list it would be "+1 with type B."

It's kind of depressing the WR gets over 60 mil while I can't even get half that but I guess I'll be happy with what I have for now. My journey with this game is far from over.

Before this run I had a total of 8 close loses that were all seconds away from winning. I'm happy all that salt is over now