MintyTheCat wrote:The reality is that the Upper Class in the UK have not been challenged for hundreds of years - unlike, Germany, Russia and even France.
I understand the reason for having Russia in that list, but relative to present times it is a largely misguided notion. Over the past 1.5 decades we have witnessed the formation of a new upper class that isn't just unchallenged—it's actually largely
unchallengeable due to its corrupt ties with the government that is held together chiefly by avarice and fear. The examples are abound. And yeah—your upper class has
nothing on our
current upper class.
You Europeans may complain a lot but you have no idea how easy you have it in many ways—at least you're presented with working (evidently) democratic procedures that, if they fail, do so because of irresponsibility and ignorance rather than falsifications and denial of access. And your governments aren't openly imposing sanctions
on your own people that no-one asked for—
in addition to the stupid and ineffective policies they enact. And your officials, if they feel they have failed you, know how to step down on their own instead of holding out until the end of their term / until they're dead / until they're tried for bribes. And you aren't persecuted for voicing different opinions. And your country isn't at war while also pretending it isn't. Hell, you guys might as well be living in paradise because I clearly don't understand what exactly is better than what you guys currently have, or whether there has been an extended period of time where non-upper-class people have ever lived better. Maybe someone will care to tell me what's the best place to live in? I'm all ears!
Immryr wrote:Moscow's Mayor, Sergei Sobyanin, noted: "Without the UK in the EU, there's no one there who'll back sanctions against us so stridently."
...Yep, just like I said. EU is far from perfect, but as a political entity it has the largest pull, and it is the largest such entity that isn't being aggressive nor employing bullying tactics against other states. By weakening the EU you are shifting the balance of power in favor of the USA, China, and Russia. And neither of those need more power than they already have (especially with people like Putin and potentially Trump at their helms). We all still live in the same world, so having a higher fence won't solve any long-term problems. Considering the far majority of the UK's problems don't even stem from the EU membership as repeatedly said above, it seems like an all-around net loss in long term.
system11 wrote:When I saw the age split statistics, I'd not be upset if the government tore up the ballot papers, they're not legally binding. A stake to the heart of democracy perhaps but there's a large number of people who won't live with the future they chose and I think that's .. wrong.
It is a saddening (but at the same time enlightening) thing is that the procedure for referendums like this is decided on a simple majority. Direct democracy is great for settling
really obvious things, but is very susceptible to irresponsible and/or misguided voting if the issue isn't remotely clear because 1) in pretty much every country in the world the
majority of people of voting age aren't well-educated making them less likely to make an informed decision based on critical thinking; 2) the majority of people, naturally, only think of near-term consequences regardless of their demographics because humans are bad at
thinking ahead and
evaluating long-term risks. Which means that every controversial issue is extremely likely to receive the worse decision by default because the percentage of the population that gives the issue the amount of thought it deserves is so small they may as well not be asked at all. This is one of the pitfalls of democracy that is typically avoided by representation, so that there are always a smaller amount of well-informed people who are expected (and paid) to properly analyze every issue on behalf of the general populace and be accountable for their decisions.
A 52%/48% split like in this case tells us that the British society is very clearly—almost exactly in half—divided on the issue, that it is complicated and not at all obvious enough for a simple majority poll. (This is regardless of the notion/fact that some percentage of people allegedly voted to make a point rather than in pursuit of the actual results.) Which
maybe calls for a more suitable decision instrument, but alas, for the UK that ship seems to have already sailed.
:shrug:
Well, like our PM Medvedev has said to citizens of the now-Russian Crimea after telling them there's no money to send them, "Hang in there! Remain in good spirits... and health..."
