Stunfest 2016 - STG Stream Details (20-22 May)

[Eaglet]

I feel like I can actually relate to where he's coming from.
To me, the excitement of playing these games is the main reason I do it where the moment to moment action and "journey" in itself is what matters the most.

From what he told us it feels like his values are similar.
Only playing in arcades and moving the way he does because it's more exciting.

[chempop]

I've watched a handful of the runs and really enjoyed them so far. Great work from the players and commentators. Perhaps not all the runs met certain goals, but we all know that even high level play is not always 100% consistent - still tremendous performance all around. Icarus has got to be the most charismatic walking encyclopedia of shmup knowledge around, hearing you commentate, I'd assume this was your full time job, really superb. Ratikal and Eaglet make perfect enthusiastic companions, who of course are both well qualified and a joy to behold.

I wasn't able to catch the streams live, but I have a few questions for the guests from China, if there is anyway maybe DKA_Darius can field these is would be great! If not, no worries.

What were your first shmup accomplishments? The game or moment "YOU DID IT!" and knew that it was a genre you wanted to commit to.

Is there a standard or preference for arcade hardware? Seimitsu vs Sanwa vs other? Do you have a favorite stick and button type?

Do you spend much time on other genres? Versus fighting games, MMORPG, console games, etc?

What type of hardware do players mostly use at home? Console ports, emulation and Steam, Superguns and PCBs, or candy cabs? Or is most of your playing strictly in the arcade?

And thank you again for sharing your talents and being part of the global community!

[DKA_Darius]

I've watched a handful of the runs and really enjoyed them so far. Great work from the players and commentators. Perhaps not all the runs met certain goals, but we all know that even high level play is not always 100% consistent - still tremendous performance all around. Icarus has got to be the most charismatic walking encyclopedia of shmup knowledge around, hearing you commentate, I'd assume this was your full time job, really superb. Ratikal and Eaglet make perfect enthusiastic companions, who of course are both well qualified and a joy to behold.

I wasn't able to catch the streams live, but I have a few questions for the guests from China, if there is anyway maybe DKA_Darius can field these is would be great! If not, no worries.

What were your first shmup accomplishments? The game or moment "YOU DID IT!" and knew that it was a genre you wanted to commit to.

Is there a standard or preference for arcade hardware? Seimitsu vs Sanwa vs other? Do you have a favorite stick and button type?

Do you spend much time on other genres? Versus fighting games, MMORPG, console games, etc?

What type of hardware do players mostly use at home? Console ports, emulation and Steam, Superguns and PCBs, or candy cabs? Or is most of your playing strictly in the arcade?

And thank you again for sharing your talents and being part of the global community!

First accomplishments:
getting a full hits of Dodonpachi DFK in 1 loop, IOS version, Hard level. For arcade version, scroing play DBAC, getting 151 million on ADH route, using Next

Seimitsu is definitely better than Sanwa for shmup for three of us. For me, I have no idea what my favorite stick and button type is, I usually play with normal keyboard, WS told me a lot of information about stick, probably LS-32 is my favorite stick I think.

Other game for me DOTA 2, Worms Armageddon, Half life 2, Command and Conquer Red Alert 3
Other game for WS, League of Legends, Warcraft 3 and other type arcade

I usually use PC to play shmup at home, steam version or MAME, but if there are cabinets in my hometown, I will go to the arcade because Seimitsu stick is better for dudging bullet and waggle movement, compared to keyboard. Both of WS and WC do not like play shmup at home, for WS, it just his style, he likes to dicuss the game in the arcade, for WC, he thinks the feeling in the arcarde is better than at home.

[chempop]

Very cool, thanks for the answers!

[x91]

Ha ha, WC's SDOJ run!

I loved listening to the commentary. I can imagine the audience was about dead trying to watch that.

I did say in my article he's a nutcase, I've never seen anyone play quite so erratically as a form. That said, he counterstopped that shit all day long in Shanghai, it's a shame nerves got the best of him here.

Still, was really good fun to watch.

His performance was even more vibrant in his younger days. Aging has taken its toll on him heavily. Many people were shocked by his "unnecessary" movements when watching him play shmups for the first few times(me included). It's insane for us, but he really hold it up very well, forming his "one of a kind" dodging style.

Like what he said as his shmups motto, "Speed is power!"

[Skykid]

I lol'd when Eaglet asked "is this a TAS?"

I think "closest cancel in history" goes to WC anyway for that stage 3 turret. That was 0.1 of a millisecond from death, especially with SDOJs hitboxes.

[Nameschonvergeben]

SDOJ runs at 10,000 fps?

[Skykid]

SDOJ runs at 10,000 fps?

Looks that way.

[The Armchair General]

That SDOJ run is the kind of stuff I would love to see at a GDQ.

[Cee]

That SDOJ run is the kind of stuff I would love to see at a GDQ.

Why? Honestly shmups are best suited to it's own appreciative audiences from specific arcade based events like Stunfest so maybe more events in this vein would be great, the further it stays away from GDQs utterly cringe worthy crowd the better imo.

[The Armchair General]

That SDOJ run is the kind of stuff I would love to see at a GDQ.

Why? Honestly shmups are best suited to it's own appreciative audiences from specific arcade based events like Stunfest so maybe more events in this vein would be great, the further it stays away from GDQs utterly cringe worthy crowd the better imo.

Events like the GDQ could help this genre to be less niche with a new audience watching it. With some good commentary explaining the game to new people I think a new audience might enjoy what they see. Go to the comment section of that "Hardest Boss Ever Video" or a somewhat popular Touhou gameplay video and you'll find some people who seemed impressed with what they see. Icarus even said in one of the Stunfest vids that "people who don't usually play STGs" were coming in and watching. There was an Ikaruga TAS at SGDQ 2015 which bored everyone but that's because a STG TAS is all about theory and no execution.

Also I don't find the GDQs that cringy with exception to the occasional disaster.

[rjosal]

First accomplishments:
getting a full hits of Dodonpachi DFK in 1 loop, IOS version, Hard level.

That's some noteworthy positive influence iOS shmups have had on the genre.

[Elixir]

That SDOJ run is the kind of stuff I would love to see at a GDQ.

That SDOJ run is the absolute polar opposite of something which I would want at GDQ. Yeah, he's skilled, I get that, but I felt sick after watching it. Actually physically sick. What was he trying to do? Fill the whole hour? He was showing off. He flails around, restarts 3 times, and still loses. That's the takeaway from this exhibition. His movement gives the impression that he's a person trying to play a shmup for the very first time (not to me, but people unfamiliar with the game, dodging, reading patterns, and movement - it's difficult to read), he went out of his way to make the game look far harder than it actually is, and there's a ton of unnecessary luckdodges. Saving hyper that long in the fourth stage wasn't necessary and he could have easily finished the game without taking so many risks. The kind of run he was going for is not something you can get at an event, not without lots of restarts, another reason why shmups aren't suited for GDQ. GDQ wouldn't give a shmup an hour allowance, nor would 99% of people watching even know what SDOJ even is.

Again, he's very skilled, I just don't find him enjoyable to watch. These games don't need an extra layer of complexity added to them in order to make them look good, they're fine as they are.

[x91]

Again, he's very skilled, I just don't find him enjoyable to watch. These games don't need an extra layer of complexity added to them in order to make them look good, they're fine as they are.

This is exactly how most people feel after watching WC. play for the very first time. But how this will affect would-be shmuppers could be variant - some find it intimidating, some other may take that as funny, it depends.

[Skykid]

I think WC is one of - if not the - most entertaining shmup experts I've ever watched, precisely because he plays like that every time. A shmupping Ronnie O'Sullivan, as I described him after the first afternoon watching him blitz various games on repeat.

My only regret is that fatigue, nerves, and a lack of practice opportunity due to the arcade being closed prior to the event meant we didn't see his best performance by some margin.

[Feedbacker]

I don't think he was showing off. The same day he did a 1.89b 2-ALLmost on DOJBL wiggling around in the same fashion, that truly is his play style.

The crowd was really hyped about the run, who cares if he didn't clear.

[Shepardus]

WC's wiggling looks like he's trying to keep a rhythm going during the less demanding parts of the game. The extent to which he did it even amidst dense clouds of bullets is kind of frightening but even I do that sort of stuff during relatively idle sections of gameplay, albeit a little differently since I play on keyboard rather than stick).

Aside from the issues with consistency I wouldn't have a problem with seeing that during a GDQ event. I think it's best not to overthink how to "properly" present shmups because they'll never appear at GDQ anyway because as long as the player isn't totally devoid of skill, with an audience of that size you'll have plenty of people "getting it" and plenty of people not regardless of what you do. If anything the commentary's more important than the player choice.

[doom_]

TGM did it. Why should high level shmup play not amaze the shit out of people @ agdq?

[Zen]

Watched WC's exhibition
Love his flair. The whole time I was like, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP3QDczTxXg

[SMC]

TGM did it. Why should high level shmup play not amaze the shit out of people @ agdq?

Because they don't know what high level play looks like.

[Skykid]

I don't think he was showing off. The same day he did a 1.89b 2-ALLmost on DOJBL wiggling around in the same fashion, that truly is his play style.

Yeah, that's how he plays on every run and on every game. If you think 2-Alling DOJBL is a fun watch you should see him go toe-to-toe against WL.

The crowd was really hyped about the run, who cares if he didn't clear.

It was mad-hype entertaining. I liked that Yom came into the booth during the interview to declare that everyone's nerves were fried.

[Shepardus]

TGM did it. Why should high level shmup play not amaze the shit out of people @ agdq?

Because they don't know what high level play looks like.

And that's different from TGM how? Before you go into incomprehensible scoring systems remember that TGM also has various fairly obscure conditions for its grades.

[Squire Grooktook]

And speed running tricks are often quite arcane.

[SMC]

But they can be explained in real time, and the audience usually consists people who are familiar the game at least on a casual level.
Everything in shmups happens too fast, especially to explain to people who not only are unfamiliar with the game, but the genre in general.

So either you go full information overload and alienate the audience completely or spend half the game explaining the basic scoring system while missing all the specific tricks that they're supposed to find impressive. Meanwhile the chat is too engaged in Touhou roleplay to pay attention and 1 of the 2 people in the room are asleep.

[NormalFish]

But they can be explained in real time, and the audience usually consists people who are familiar the game at least on a casual level.
Everything in shmups happens too fast, especially to explain to people who not only are unfamiliar with the game, but the genre in general.

So either you go full information overload and alienate the audience completely or spend half the game explaining the basic scoring system while missing all the specific tricks that they're supposed to find impressive. Meanwhile the chat is too engaged in Touhou roleplay to pay attention and 1 of the 2 people in the room are asleep.

I think you're overstimating how much the layman needs to understand to find a 1cc of a game like SDOJ impressive. Commentary on par (or even a bit less quality) than stunfest and a strong player would be perfectly sufficient.

Shmups are second only to fighting games in being incredibly easy to appreciate, even if they're difficult to fully grasp the intricacies of. See those dots? Dodge those. See those tanks? Shoot those. Hardly "information overload".

[SMC]

That's the point though, they can't distinguish high level play because to the untrained eye it all just looks like 'dodge dots, blow stuff up'.

[Cagar]

-

[NormalFish]

That's the point though, they can't distinguish high level play because to the untrained eye it all just looks like 'dodge dots, blow stuff up'.

Just dodging those bullets is super impressive though, that's the thing. Sit some random Joe down in front of a 1cc of a Cave title and I promise you they're going to say "there's no way I could do that, that's crazy!" even if they have no explanation. The difference between a 1cc and a really advanced score attack may be lost on many, but I'm not sure that matters when just showing off the game. Give people a reference from which to work ("A good score is about X, record is about Y") and that should be enough for most folks. Bit of intermittent commentary to explain the basics of chaining and basic technique should round things off nicely.
**
Unrelated, any other runs by WC on youtube or elsewhere? I'd like to see more.

[Ex_Mosquito]

I was so gutted for W.C's Strikers1945 performance at Stunfest, he is capable of so much more. I used to have S1945ii/iii relays of his that I got off a Chinese STG site back in the mid 2000's and they blew my mind. His confidence and playstyle was inspiring. I love the way he just free-styles and dots around the screen dong risky manoeuvres just for the hell of it, he's so much fun to watch. I even tried incorporating his style into my Pulstar 1lc I did back n 2006. Very unique player.

[Squire Grooktook]

But they can be explained in real time, and the audience usually consists people who are familiar the game at least on a casual level.

Doesn't seem to be the case. What casual audience is familliar enough with Yoshi's Island enough to know about the advanced, intricate, absurdly precise memory corruption glitch? And you have what, 10 seconds to explain how the games code gets corrupted intentionally so that the player can walk through a wall?

It's not that big a difference, really. And like NormalFish said, just dodging bullets is impressive in its own right.