GamerGate - and it's continuing aftermath.

[Zen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgoB2JMEowc

Wonderful response. You managed to elevate yourself from uneducated about the games industry to just plain uneducated in one link.

Only from your pronoia addled perspective, my friend. I thought it quite amusing.
My first post on this, was an opinion, like every one else's. Your seemingly endless argumentative and contrary nature, is regrettable.

[Skykid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgoB2JMEowc

Wonderful response. You managed to elevate yourself from uneducated about the games industry to just plain uneducated in one link.

Only from your pronoia addled perspective, my friend. I thought it quite amusing.
My first post on this, was an opinion, like every one else's. Your seemingly endless argumentative and contrary nature, is regrettable.

As are your delusions of intelligence.

[Zen]

You prove my point, sir. As I said, regrettable.

[Skykid]

Sidelining this guy: if there's anyone interested in actually responding to the topic at hand (iconoclast?) there's a response on the previous page.

[iconoclast]

Well now you're just moving the goalposts. You can't compare smartphones to handheld consoles - smartphones are damaging the ENTIRE console market.

Not really. Handhelds are in direct competition with smartphones - most of the people who bought a DS or PSP have no use for a 3DS or Vita. If they want to play games on the go, they can do that on their phone.

So far, the PS4 & Xbox One have sold more than the PS3 & 360 did over the same period of time (and PS2, in the PS4's case). The console market as a whole is down because nobody wants a Wii U. For Sony & Microsoft, it's business as usual.

You must be crazy. It's shipped 60 million units. That's disappointing to whom, exactly?

The DS shipped 154 million units & sold 948 million pieces of software. The 3DS is their least successful handheld to date, with 59m console sales & 274m software sales. That's much worse than the difference between the PS2 and PS3, and I'm pretty sure most people would consider the latter a disappointment. Nintendo banked on two gimmicks that nobody wanted this gen, and they're paying for it.

It certainly wasn't an anomaly in being successful.

Hardware/Software sales:

N64: 33m / 225m
GC: 22m / 209m
Wii: 101m / 914m
WiiU: 13m / 84m

One of these is not like the others. Nintendo's back on the decline.

Again, this is a case of people not having market perspective. The N64 did very well indeed that generation, against competitors like the Saturn, Jaguar, 3DO and CDi, it was sitting pretty.

Comparing it to three platforms that were DOA & one that failed in every territory outside of Japan (where it outsold the N64) isn't helping your case. I guess the Wii U is sitting pretty against competitors like the Ouya.

The N64 wasn't a failure, but it didn't do well either. It's a platform that survived on a few big hits. In between Mario, Zelda, Goldeneye, etc. there was almost nothing being released because third parties jumped ship to the Playstation & Saturn. This has become the norm with Nintendo consoles, so like I said, who would be surprised if it happens for the 4th time with the NX?

Yeah but that's not what you said. I'm glad you had the sense to redact the comment anyway, as it was absurd as a standalone, especially when talking about a company with some of the greatest titles ever written under their belt.

I didn't redact anything, my comment just has to be read in the context of the discussion. It's not like Nintendo of Japan is the one that's censoring the western versions of their games.

Otherwise who gives a fuck about NoA's conduct in localising Japanese games these days. It's a dying market in light of smartphones, the number of people interested is dwindling, and Japanese games have been largely at the bottom of the interest list for about 10 years. It's only weeaboos and dedicated nerds who still care.

Companies like Xseed, Atlus, NIS, Koei-Tecmo, etc have shown that you can still make plenty of money off of weeaboos and dedicated nerds if you play your cards right. Nintendo's still spending money to localize the games, and they're probably spending even more money to censor them. All that's doing is turning off potential customers, they're not gaining anything from it.

[BrianC]

You must be crazy. It's shipped 60 million units. That's disappointing to whom, exactly?

The DS shipped 154 million units & sold 948 million pieces of software. The 3DS is their least successful handheld to date, with 59m console sales & 274m software sales.

Keep in mind that most sites make the mistake of combining the GB/GBC sales figures. The 118 million figure for Game Boy includes Gameboy Pocket and GBC.

most of the people who bought a DS or PSP have no use for a 3DS or Vita. If they want to play games on the go, they can do that on their phone.

I disagree here. Both 3DS and Vita have worthy games that aren't on DS or PSP. Phone has a lot of good games, but it also has way too many freeinum games.

[iconoclast]

That's true. I was going off of Nintendo's numbers and didn't consider that. I think it's fair to combine the GB+GBP at least, but the GBC might be a stretch.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Word is, Dark Souls 3 in April sold remarkably well in the US. Which is a Japanese game.

[Skykid]

Well now you're just moving the goalposts. You can't compare smartphones to handheld consoles - smartphones are damaging the ENTIRE console market.

Not really. Handhelds are in direct competition with smartphones - most of the people who bought a DS or PSP have no use for a 3DS or Vita. If they want to play games on the go, they can do that on their phone.

Yes I agree, but you still moved the goalposts because we were discussing the console market. The 3DS has sold 60 million units, the Vita 4 million. I'm aware that smartphones are eating an enormous part of that sector, so compared to previous generations I would concede it's a relative disappointment. But at the moment it's the only handheld still in the race and turning healthy profit. Objectively I can't consider that a disappointment in business terms: it's a shrinking market, but not a dead market. To own 95% of what's left isn't a bad thing.

So far, the PS4 & Xbox One have sold more than the PS3 & 360 did over the same period of time (and PS2, in the PS4's case). The console market as a whole is down because nobody wants a Wii U. For Sony & Microsoft, it's business as usual.

Agreed, although the console market and software sales are still affected by the amount spent on smartphone gaming on a daily basis. Disposable income is finite no matter which way you slice it. We're all agreed that the Wii U is a colossal failure.

Nintendo banked on two gimmicks that nobody wanted this gen, and they're paying for it.

Again, I disagree with your appraisal of the 3DS. 60 million people and counting "wanted it," and that Amiibo shit that goes with it.

It certainly wasn't an anomaly in being successful.
Hardware/Software sales:

N64: 33m / 225m
GC: 22m / 209m
Wii: 101m / 914m
WiiU: 13m / 84m

One of these is not like the others. Nintendo's back on the decline.

I'm sure if I added GameBoy (in all its iterations), NES, SNES, GameBoy Advance and Nintendo DS (and 3DS!) to this list, it would be slightly more rounded, no?

And you're completely failing to assess the market of the time, which was much smaller when the N64 was released. To make a fair appraisal: the generation prior saw the Mega Drive hit 30 million units sold. That machine is considered a huge success, and Sega's only real success. Following the MD the N64 sold 33 million units to be the second best selling console among six. If you want a real anomaly, it was the PlayStation. It changed and expanded the market enormously and created a new userbase that it completely owned. You might consider that anomaly to make the N64 a 'failure', but I don't really agree.

Comparing it to three platforms that were DOA & one that failed in every territory outside of Japan (where it outsold the N64) isn't helping your case. I guess the Wii U is sitting pretty against competitors like the Ouya.

That's just a silly comparison. The market today is comprised of a massive potential userbase that the Wii before it completely owned. By that rationale the Wii U can only be a huge failure.

third parties jumped ship to the Playstation & Saturn. This has become the norm with Nintendo consoles

Except with the Wii of course. It wasn't that long ago, you know?

my comment just has to be read in the context of the discussion.

There wasn't any context around it though, it was a standalone statement - but I accept that you were referring to their localisation practices if that's what you say.

Companies like Xseed, Atlus, NIS, Koei-Tecmo, etc have shown that you can still make plenty of money off of weeaboos and dedicated nerds if you play your cards right. Nintendo's still spending money to localize the games, and they're probably spending even more money to censor them. All that's doing is turning off potential customers, they're not gaining anything from it.

Doesn't change anything! The market for Japanese games in the west is considerably smaller than it ever was in the past. In-fact it's very much a niche. My assertion that the censorship of shitty idol game X is a business decision through and through stands: Nintendo has a very different company image to the likes of MS and Sony, they're not interested in bringing GG heat (which is what I believe to be the reason). As I mentioned, the Alison Rapp scandal had them under fire in the media because they sacked her - and they were good enough to her not to mention why and just take the heat. These kind of censorship practices are definitely a byproduct of that. When it no longer has any potential financial ramifications, they (and all the other companies censoring similarly) will just stop bothering - those kind of artistic changes cost time and money.

[Zen]

Nintendo has a very different company image to the likes of MS and Sony, they're not interested in bringing GG heat (which is what I believe to be the reason). As I mentioned, the Alison Rapp scandal had them under fire in the media because they sacked her - and they were good enough to her not to mention why and just take the heat. These kind of censorship practices are definitely a byproduct of that. When it no longer has any potential financial ramifications, they (and all the other companies censoring similarly) will just stop bothering - those kind of artistic changes cost time and money.

Im leaning more to the GG explanation of the censorship myself now. I asked earlier, what positive publicity/sales/goodwill could possibly be expected from this censorship. Of course, on the other side of this, is the possible bad publicity brought upon the company, by leaving in said images etc., should some opportunistic journalist decide to cut themselves a piece of social justice pie and megaphone to all "concerned" parties. The numbers of the "outraged" would probably far outweigh the amount of people actually buying the game and upset that it had been censored.

Now, on Alison Rapp being fired by Nintendo. Claiming that Nintendo were "good enough to her not to mention why and just take the heat", is letting Nintendo off the hook, Skykid. At least be consistent here, as you said earlier;

They're a corporation. They don't have feelings, they don't succumb to pressure. They just make decisions based on whether or not something is positive for, or potentially detrimental to, their profit margins in both long and short term.

Nintendo are not being "good" to her. They just dont want to dig the hole the made by hiring this baggage any deeper, by mentioning the "why".

[Skykid]

Not really. When the media came down on them like a ton of bricks for firing a woman, it would have been in their heartless corporate bastard nature to just tell everyone she was a whore and that doesn't sit well with being a PR face. That would have shut them up quick.

Instead they just quietly soaked up the negative spin.

[iconoclast]

Tokyo Mirage Sessions is far from the first game they've censored. There's also Xenoblade X, Fatal Frame, Bravely Default 1 & 2, Fire Emblem, etc. TMS is the only one I'm interested in tho so I might not be aware of some stuff. I highly doubt that the whole Alison Rapp situation is related. If anything, they're just reacting to the hyper PC culture that's been building up over the last few years. Or maybe this is how they've always been. I don't know if there was anything that was "risque" enough for them to consider censoring on the Wii, but in Paper Mario TTYD for example, they did make a transgender character female in the western release. Imagine the shitstorm if that were to happen today.

I'm sure if I added GameBoy (in all its iterations), NES, SNES, GameBoy Advance and Nintendo DS (and 3DS!) to this list, it would be slightly more rounded, no?

Adding the NES & SNES would show a steady decline in console market share from the very beginning, but that's not fair since the NES didn't have competition (nobody cares about the Master System).

I started with the N64 because that's where Nintendo started losing third party developers, which is a trend that hasn't changed. Even with the Wii, a lot of people would argue that it didn't have much third party support, but that's only slightly true. Third party developers were releasing games on the Wii; it's just that most of them were catered specifically towards the Wii audience. People who complain about its third party support are talking about the lack of games aimed toward core gamers, since 99% of those were on the PS3 & 360.

[Obscura]

NoA has been censoring the hell out of everything since the days of the NES; you just didn't know about it prior to it becoming a hot-button issue.

Re: third party developers and declining sales, the problem that Nintendo faces is that they haven't realized that "Mario and Zelda" alone isn't enough to sell consoles. People also want to play Call of Duty, Skyrim, and Final Fantasy. Nintendo consistently blows this by being too different hardware-wise than everyone else, except for with the Gamecube, where they blew it with their stupid "no M-rated games" policy. If they're smart, they're going to make the NX similar hardware-wise to the PS4 and XB1, and not put stupid onerous restrictions on third-party devs.

[cave hermit]

Gamecube no M rated games policy?

What about the Capcom games that were originally gamecube exclusives (Killer 7, RE4, etc.)?

Geist and Eternal Darkness were both gamecube M rated games published by Nintendo as well.

[Obscura]

They changed the policy late in the console's lifespan, after realizing how bad they'd screwed up, but yes, Nintendo had a "no M rated games" policy on the Gamecube, attempting to replicate the success they had by censoring MK on the SNES.

[iconoclast]

Of course I knew that games were being censored in the NES/SNES era, but it definitely became much less common during the N64/GC/Wii eras (see Conker's Bad Fur Day, which ironically got censored when they remade it for the Xbox). Now they're regressing. Besides, Nintendo could get away with doing anything they wanted during the NES era because they were the only game in town. They tried to hold on to the same attitude with the SNES, but Sega forced them to adapt.

I've never heard of a 'no M-rated games' policy for the GC. Eternal Darkness came out in early 2002, Mortal Kombat 5 in late 2002, etc. Nintendo's not going to develop an M-rated game, and third parties weren't going to port their games to the GC because they didn't think the audience was there to support them.

[Immryr]

yeah the problem with the GC was the stupid discs.

[BIL]

First I've heard of any such policy, too. Resident Evil (2002) must've been an exception? Bloody, sweary and sexy that one, cor blimey.

[Bitter Almonds]

I hate censorship or pretty much any alteration to an original of anything, esp. if it's because of pressure from busybodies and know-nothings. Thankfully, there are many games out there that I can easily avoid the censored shit

[Ed Oscuro]

During the GC era Nintendo made a big push to recapture gamers who had bought the NES and SNES with more mature games, hence the whole Capcom Five deal. Of course Nintendo didn't reclaim the market from Sony, and Nintendo didn't have much reason to try and shift any other properties (besides Metroid, maybe) to appeal to those older groups.

How Capcom treated their RE series with censorship is certainly an issue that goes back to the 90s, given it's about good old-fashioned monster violence. I always thought the RE4 release was the beginning of the modern approach to censoring things for the Japanese market, but the actual history of RE censorship is more convoluted, at least in the early days. It is interesting to note, though, that since RE4 new releases in Japanese territory are often censored compared to the NA market equivalents, so Japanese sensibilities are pushing the censorship, not concerns from the West. This seems to be due to anti-violence concerns in Japan. In fact one can see that even the second game was censored for Japan, and some of the early NA version censorship targets smoking references (which was a big deal even from the mid-90s, and arguably smoking references didn't fit the series well anyway).

[Zen]

Gentlemen, for your consideration, more mental cuckery;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBs-oj7U-bo

If you feel this has nothing to do with GG, re-watch the vid and "Listen and believe"

[Obiwanshinobi]

I've found RE4's 18 PEGI rating hilarious since Zack & Wiki (with its deaths) got 7. The assumption death can be lightweight for as long as there's no red blood or a glimpse of thigh to it seems like one of those things giving adults bad reputation with the kids.

1080° Avalanche is a first party GameCube game that awkwardly tried to be "cool"... only to depict some rather touching fatalities in the intro.

[Skykid]

Tokyo Mirage Sessions is far from the first game they've censored. There's also Xenoblade X, Fatal Frame, Bravely Default 1 & 2, Fire Emblem, etc. TMS is the only one I'm interested in tho so I might not be aware of some stuff. I highly doubt that the whole Alison Rapp situation is related. If anything, they're just reacting to the hyper PC culture that's been building up over the last few years. Or maybe this is how they've always been. I don't know if there was anything that was "risque" enough for them to consider censoring on the Wii, but in Paper Mario TTYD for example, they did make a transgender character female in the western release. Imagine the shitstorm if that were to happen today.

Well if they have a shitty history with censorship, fair enough: you can claim NoA to be a shitty 'localiser' and I'll take your word for it. I assume that basically everything censored these days has some kind of SJW/GG parallel, because that stuff is so toxic that you start to feel as though anything with leading female characters, transgendered anything, and of course censorship of harmless female-related aesthetics is somehow related.

I'm sure if I added GameBoy (in all its iterations), NES, SNES, GameBoy Advance and Nintendo DS (and 3DS!) to this list, it would be slightly more rounded, no?

Adding the NES & SNES would show a steady decline in console market share from the very beginning, but that's not fair since the NES didn't have competition (nobody cares about the Master System).

A steady decline in console market share until... the Wii of course? And of course the Super Nintendo had two other major competitors whereas (as you noted) the NES was basically a monopoly. That didn't stop its success at all, it was a giant of the early 90s. I'm not sure you can equate "decline in market share" with 'sharing the market' as a black mark.

And of course that doesn't include handhelds, right? If there was a chart showing handheld sales performance since Game & Watch, I'm pretty sure Nintendo would be a solid green line above all other competitors from then until now.

We haven't even thrown franchises into the mix here either. Pokemon and Mario own part of the universe by this point.

I started with the N64 because that's where Nintendo started losing third party developers, which is a trend that hasn't changed. Even with the Wii, a lot of people would argue that it didn't have much third party support, but that's only slightly true. Third party developers were releasing games on the Wii; it's just that most of them were catered specifically towards the Wii audience. People who complain about its third party support are talking about the lack of games aimed toward core gamers, since 99% of those were on the PS3 & 360.

The Wii had a shit-ton of third party developers, they were just all a bunch of shovelware studios turning out gimmicky bullshit that only families and old people thought they wanted to play. I liken the Wii to the PS1 in that regard; the PS1 had a stunning catalogue but there was a mountain of casual market junk on there too.

That said I personally agree that Nintendo has to change its strategy now. It can't rely on another USP that differentiates it from the competition, and then expect everyone to want to stop wanting FPSs to play Mario Galaxy 8 upside down, waving their cock like a magic feather.

Although they have more hard capital than god, the NX is crunch time.

[Skykid]

Valve are being sued for discriminatory dismissal by an employee who went full trans.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2 ... ransgender

[Durandal]

Judge denies Gawker a new trial in Hogan case, Gawker's fate is sealed.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-peopl ... SKCN0YG2OZ

In other unrelated news, Nick Denton is looking to sell Gawker to anyone interested

Valve are being sued for discriminatory dismissal by an employee who went full trans.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2 ... ransgender

I guess she wanted Valve to pay for her mods.

[BrianC]

I definitely think Nintendo's recent censorship is GG related. It doesn't make sense otherwise (not that GG makes sense). While I chalk a good chunk of dialog changes down to silly localization, a good deal of fanservice was left untouched (Camilla especially) and underwear was left intact, while swimsuits less revealing than the underwear, including men's suits, were removed. They also removed that mini game, while still having a hot springs. It's a similar case with Xenoblade Chronicles X where most of the revealing suits were intact, but a slider was removed.

It also seems the censorship for Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE was done so Nintendo could market the game towards hipsters. ugh

[Durandal]

It also seems the censorship for Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE was done so Nintendo could market the game towards hipsters. ugh

This just makes me physically sick.
I have usually no problems with watching cringe videos, but corporate-produced garbage made possible by suits who are completely out of touch with the youth and humanity in general is just so painful to watch, it amazes me that the localization team somehow has the motivation left to finish dissecting and rearranging this gray blob for consumption by the Western masses with The Million Dollar Question being 'Why bother?'.

[Bitter Almonds]

I hope it fails.

[Durandal]

STAGE CLEAR

http://nypost.com/2016/06/10/gawker-fil ... e=facebook

Gawker filed for bankruptcy Friday in New York federal court shortly after a lawyer for the gossip website told a Florida judge that it couldn’t afford to pay a $140 million jury award to wrestling legend Hulk Hogan for posting his sex tape online.

The Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing says that Gawker has between 200 and 1,000 creditors, $50 million to $100 million in assets, and $100 million to $500 million in liabilities.

The company says that it will use two loans, one $15 million advance made by Menlo Park, Calif. venture capital firm US VC Partners, and another $7.6 million credit from Silicon Valley Bank, to stay afloat during the proceeding.

The filing also says that Gawker plans to start “the process of marketing and selling assets of the company.”

Ziff Davis, owner of PC Mag, has already put in a bid for between $90 million and $100 million to buy Gawker, according to a source. Proceeds from any sale of Gawker would be put into escrow pending the site’s appeal of the Hogan verdict, the source said.

If Gawker wins the appeal it will recoup the sale money, otherwise the funds will be handed over to Hogan.

Gawker’s largest creditor is the WWE champ, followed by the law firm Morrison Cohen LLP, to which it owes $115,000 in legal fees.

The website owes Hogan $130 million while Denton is personally on the hook for $10 million in punitive damages.

In a Pinellas County, Fla. courtroom Friday Gawker Lawyer Michael Berry told Judge Pamela Campbell that the $140 million jury award would mean “certain financial ruin” for the website.

Judge Campbell agreed to a temporary stay of the judgment after Gawker founder Nick Denton pledged to post nearly $50 million worth of shares in his company. Florida state law requires a minimum $50 million bond to appeal the jury award.

Gawker’s other creditors include an $82,000 debt to the risk strategy company DeWitt Stern Group and $67,000 to Google.

[Skykid]

Does this mean Brian Ashcraft will stop shitposting?