Not sure which CRT TV to get?

[atheistgod1999]

Obviously the colors are off since I'm using S-video, but you can see that it's really vibrant :

Actually, NESRGB is pretty accurate with the colors. I know I made a thread stating the contrary and how NTSC is nicknamed "Never The Same Color", but it seems pretty consistent on early 2000's CRTs (out of the ~4 I used from that era) that composite colors are much closer to RGB than on older sets (out of the 3 I used from the late 90's). I guess they have better decoders.

This is the closest (colors in the picture are a little too bright and a tad washed-out) I could get to what I saw in-person on this 2003 Toshiba similar to the ones shown on MyLifeInGaming (all picture settings set to average) with an unmodded (except for NES light gun support) AV Famicom (sorry for the bad focus):



Those examples of composite VS RGB I mentioned in that thread are actually pretty invalid on later CRTs; the colors in composite are a lot closer to RGB on those.

If you don't want to mod everything for RGB, get a CRT made after ~2001.

[bobrocks95]

Here's some pics from my set, using approach #1. Obviously the colors are off since I'm using S-video, but you can see that it's really vibrant :

Can I sheepishly ask for a comparison shot with a low-mid sub-brightness and then the menu brightness around halfway (or even full if that proves the point better)?

I'm assuming you have your menu brightness 3 or 4 notches over from the minimum, if not it's about the same amount of effort for me to check it out for myself, so I'll just do that. Just gotta count a bunch of notches over to remember what I'm currently at.

Actually, NESRGB is pretty accurate with the colors. I know I made a thread stating the contrary and how NTSC is nicknamed "Never The Same Color", but it seems pretty consistent on early 2000's CRTs (out of the ~4 I used from that era) that composite colors are much closer to RGB than on older sets (out of the 3 I used from the late 90's). I guess they have better decoders.

This is the closest (colors in the picture are a little too bright and a tad washed-out) I could get to what I saw in-person on this 2003 Toshiba similar to the ones shown on MyLifeInGaming (all picture settings set to average) with an unmodded (except for NES light gun support) AV Famicom (sorry for the bad focus):

*snip*

Those examples of composite VS RGB I mentioned in that thread are actually pretty invalid on later CRTs; the colors in composite are a lot closer to RGB on those.

If you don't want to mod everything for RGB, get a CRT made after ~2001.

I borrowed a friend's Gamecube component cables and colors are very notably more vibrant than when using S-Video cables. If I'm reading your post right and that's the point you're trying to make, I would argue that S-Video and component colors are notably different (whether or not they're off enough for someone to care is of course subjective).

[BONKERS]

Are there any non-flat options available? Flatscreen TVs tend to have worse geometry due to the distortions introduced by the flat display surface. The beam originates from a single point, so a curved screen is required to have the same beam length at any point on the screen. A flat screen needs to account for the fact that the beam has to travel different distances to different parts of the screen, which makes good geometry and focus a lot harder.

That's not to say that there aren't good flat CRTs, only that they're trickier to find with good geometry.

Also, you'll want to avoid any flatscreen TV that is 100/120Hz, and if you're planning to play retro games, be wary of anything that is EDTV or HDTV, because those will involve internal upscalers and digital processing that can add the same sort of lag that LCD HDTVs do.

This is true, i've got a 27" Phillips flat CRT and it has some annoying geometry problems.

However, it still looks nice. (I HAVE to use Component though, S-Video and Composite look like garbage on my TV)
Though a bigger problem is that parts of it become magnetized or something a lot, causing discoloration and blobs of discoloration on usually the right side of the screen. When that happens, have to turn the TV off, wait until it degausses itself.

Is annoying as hell.

[FinalBaton]

Can I sheepishly ask for a comparison shot with a low-mid sub-brightness and then the menu brightness around halfway (or even full if that proves the point better)?

I'm assuming you have your menu brightness 3 or 4 notches over from the minimum, if not it's about the same amount of effort for me to check it out for myself, so I'll just do that. Just gotta count a bunch of notches over to remember what I'm currently at.

I might do it if I find the time. And as far as my settings go : I have brightness actually set to the absolute minimum! and sub-brightness to around 27 (32 being max) if I remember correctly. Oh and contrast(in the service menu) is set very low, i think it's either on 3 or 4.

[FinalBaton]

Actually, NESRGB is pretty accurate with the colors. I know I made a thread stating the contrary and how NTSC is nicknamed "Never The Same Color", but it seems pretty consistent on early 2000's CRTs (out of the ~4 I used from that era) that composite colors are much closer to RGB than on older sets (out of the 3 I used from the late 90's). I guess they have better decoders.

Those examples of composite VS RGB I mentioned in that thread are actually pretty invalid on later CRTs; the colors in composite are a lot closer to RGB on those.

If you don't want to mod everything for RGB, get a CRT made after ~2001.

Well I won't discuss composite vs S-video vs RGB at length because I feel it will derail the thread, but I'll just mention my take quickly here and then be done with it :

having experimented with good RGB CRT monitor for a couple of years now, it became obvious that S-video, while being very close in sharpness to RGB (aside from a little bit of color bleeding), is a very sizeable step down in the colors department. The colors are as vibrant as RGB, but they're off in comparison. I mean, it's just plain obvious when you compare S-video and RGB on a good Sony PVM for example.

The NES is a weird case since it's RGB palette was calculated around an average of NTSC decoders results. That's why the colors of a stock NES through composite might look "natural" and really close in accuracy to that of an emulator, albeit less rich and vibrant.
However, the NERSGB through RGB on my PVM looks exactly like the Nestopia Emulator (wich the NESRGB "natural" palette is based on), with colors being richer than that of a stock NES (oh, and the picture is sharper too).
But with S-video, the color accuracy is noticeably off. Same with the composite signal extracted from the NESRGB amp.



And yes : I agree with you that the later higher end Sony Trinitron/Wega have a very nice comb filter. Mine has a 3D digital one.
Also, the PVM-1354Q has an excellent comb filter. Playing a stock NES on it is totally enjoyable. You get some dot crawl and a bit of shimmer. but it still looks damn good and fairly sharp. As I said, definitly enjoyable. In my opinion, it can't get better than this for playing through composite. I absolutely recommend this one for people who don't want to RGB mod the NES and the PC Engine.
But what I recommend even MORE, is to get those consoles RGB modded

[Einzelherz]

Are there any non-flat options available? Flatscreen TVs tend to have worse geometry due to the distortions introduced by the flat display surface. The beam originates from a single point, so a curved screen is required to have the same beam length at any point on the screen. A flat screen needs to account for the fact that the beam has to travel different distances to different parts of the screen, which makes good geometry and focus a lot harder.

That's not to say that there aren't good flat CRTs, only that they're trickier to find with good geometry.

Also, you'll want to avoid any flatscreen TV that is 100/120Hz, and if you're planning to play retro games, be wary of anything that is EDTV or HDTV, because those will involve internal upscalers and digital processing that can add the same sort of lag that LCD HDTVs do.

This is true, i've got a 27" Phillips flat CRT and it has some annoying geometry problems.

However, it still looks nice. (I HAVE to use Component though, S-Video and Composite look like garbage on my TV)
Though a bigger problem is that parts of it become magnetized or something a lot, causing discoloration and blobs of discoloration on usually the right side of the screen. When that happens, have to turn the TV off, wait until it degausses itself.

Is annoying as hell.

I have the same/similar tv. I tweaked the geometry to get just a little bit of pinching at the top and bottom of the sides, about 2 inches into the screen. It's a decent set (being a digital tuner helps it stay around) but I'm still looking for a Sony. The shadow mask is too restrictive, imo.

[Brad251]

It would be nice to have nice to have all the retro consoles with RGB output, connected to a PVM/BVM or modded CRT but I use the emulator frontend Retroarch on the Wii connected to my Trinitron CRT through component and it is a pretty fantastic alternative for a poor person like me. You generally have to double the horizontal resolution for most cores but Retroarch Wii can still output 224/240p. For example, the native resolution of NES games was 256 x 240, so in Retroarch Wii you set the resolution at 512 x 240 because the Wii can't output a 256 horizontal resolution. As far as I can tell it looks exactly the same as running the game on the original console. I was playing Street Fighter Alpha 3 using the Final Burn Alpha core and it looked amazing (in spite of the problems I mentioned with my crt) on my CRT (KV-24FS100). CPS1/2 games can run at their native resolution of 384 x 224 in Retroarch Wii.

[FinalBaton]

A consumer Trinitron fed component is a fine setup Brad! It gives a satisfying picture I think.

Although I have not seen your particular model in person.

An suposedly the Wii outputs a very nice RGB/component signal for 240p games.