the best players on shmups.system11.org are....

[trap15]

Great reason to ignore preference and lifestyle, and to be a jackass.

I'll ignore all those for a preference of facts, Kamui is a man.

The real facts here are who's being a douche to one of the nicest and best STG players around.

[Squire Grooktook]

I agree with Trap and Geist.

[chum]

More on topic, the best players in the west are objectively Chum, Pazaizy, Cactu and Prometheus, or as I'm going to refer to them from now on, the CP crew. What is it about the letters C and P that makes players whose handles begin with them so good? There's even Project Ako and Perikles in the "P" group, for that matter.

Your selection seems quite random to me.

Chum's Batrider score was beaten by Aquas long ago. He played Garegga and some Psikyo games, but nothing too seriously (?). Nice Strikers 99 2-All!
Pazaizy only (?) has a DOJ WL score. It's pretty high though.
I can't even find any good scores by Cactu?

And all 3 seem to have some Touhou stuff.

But I would agree on Prom. He hasn't played a lot of games, but those he played went golden.

Is this a shitpost? I can't tell.

I think he's trying to bait, Plasmo knows fully well I'm a Touhou player and not a Raizing player... but I'll respond to because people can be impressionable and I don't want people to have the wrong idea about things, even if noone gives a shit

those titles aren't my main games and aren't indicative of my dedication/ability, the three games that are are shoot the bullet, fairy wars and double spoiler.

there is not a single arcade game i'm accomplished in

[Icarus]

there is not a single arcade game i'm accomplished in

I've seen your abilities first-hand, and I'm calling your bluff.

[chum]

it's all about context.

I've put well over 1000 hours into Shoot the Bullet and I'm second on the leaderboard, I pretty much dominate GFW outside of just a few categories. let's say that titles like those took about 98% of my work and titles like batrider, garegga took 2%. i mean strikers 1999 i played that for 4 days to 2-all it, that's not something i really care about

so from my standpoint garegga for example was more of a fling/experiment, it's not something i've worked on seriously (like plasmo said)

[Icarus]

it's all about context.
I've put well over 1000 hours into Shoot the Bullet and I'm second on the leaderboard, I pretty much dominate GFW outside of just a few categories. let's say that titles like those took about 98% of my work and titles like batrider, garegga took 2%. i mean strikers 1999 i played that for 4 days to 2-all it, that's not something i really care about
so from my standpoint garegga for example was more of a fling/experiment, it's not something i've worked on seriously (like plasmo said)

Exactly, context. Given I've watched you put in the time and effort (however small you claim it to be) to attain scores in arcade games that 90% of the people of this forum would only ever dream of attaining, to say you're "not accomplished" at them is a bit of a slight to those that have tried.

[chum]

It's just a difference in viewpoints, I adopt a more global standard which considers everyone including Japanese players, and I mean that compared to them I am not accomplished in any arcade games. Carpet can score over 22 million my score is only 18, so that's a pretty big difference. I don't feel accomplished in them but I don't tell someone else "hey, you shouldn't feel accomplished". I don't feel accomplished because, I've done other things that are better, simple as that

I don't think that's true the 90% people thing, they just need to try. i played shmups a lot. if you play shmups a lot you'll get better, then you notice all the score that's still missing, you need to raise the bar. that's how you stay motivated!

[chempop]

It's just a difference in viewpoints, I adopt a more global standard which considers everyone including Japanese players, and I mean that compared to them I am not accomplished in any arcade games.

While this is true, the topic is about players on system11. Your Batrider score is still very impressive.

I don't don't care for the attitude a lot of good players around here have: 'I don't have the world record, I'm not that good.'
Is this a TH thing, a basement dweller thing? I don't know.

[chum]

I don't don't care for the attitude a lot of good players around here have: 'I don't have the world record, I'm not that good.'
Is this a TH thing, a basement dweller thing? I don't know.

-->

I don't feel accomplished because, I've done other things that are better, simple as that

I never said that I'm not good, because I am.

I think you are right in your observation in any case, but as for me personally, I will brag if I feel like it.

[Bananamatic]

i'm the best tbh

[chempop]

Yup, that's why you two were some of my nominations, along with Aquas, Emuser, Eaglet, Del? etc.

You don't have to be number #1 to still be one of the best here. But all those guys all have outstanding accomplishment.

[Bananamatic]

why the hell did you even nominate me in 2012, i couldnt play for shit back then

[Eaglet]

Gotta say, chempop, it's a commendable thing you're doing. And I'm not just saying that because I was nominated.
Initiatives like these are exactly what the community needs. How the thread has derailed is probably symptomatic of how unusual stuff like this is over here.

[ProjectAKo]

I don't see it as people being more skilled, it's more like a list of who is putting in more effort and who is training efficiently.

An example is STGT where everyone started off near the same level, but the people who stubbornly kept training (efficiently) even though they hated the games won out in the end. That means using savestates to practice the game backwards starting with the final/hardest stage first. If it's a two loop game you won't even have to practice the early levels.

[chempop]

why the hell did you even nominate me in 2012, i couldnt play for shit back then

I didn't, I added you a week or so ago when I bumped the thread.

[T4N3]

the worst thread on shmups.system11.org is...

[DMC]

Difficult to say who's the best in overall, but the Best Safe Spot Award goes to Shoe-Sama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxTGXGuyA2Q

[Plasmo]

I honestly can't believe how few mentions Jaimers has gotten yet.

In my opinion he easily is the best player on this forum by a large margin. Noone comes even close. Besides dominating the STGT here are some community records:

19XX
Lightning - 17,391,100 - ALL

Dangun Feveron
Type C - 11,978,808 - ALL2 - 4/Roll - 5013

Eschatos
Original - Hardest - 29,964,300

Strania
Vower/Normal - 15,550,590

Sengeki Striker
1,135,622,980 - ALL

Raiden IV
66,473,960 - ALL (PC)

Batsugun
19.764.160 - 5 - Type B

Furthermore:
CCWI Unlimited clear w/ 5.8trill
Mushi Ultra Clear
DDP 2-ALL 267mill
Rayforce 8mill
DOJ BL 2-ALL
Galuda 53,5mill
Darius Gaiden zone V NMNB 11,5mill
R Type 2 NM 2-ALL
Ketsui URA 2-ALL 390mill
Strikers 99 2-ALL 2,7mill
Batsugun Special counterstop
Donpachi 2-ALL

I have probably forgotten numerous achievements. Besides this he is famous for playing obscure PC shooters I haven't even heard of. And he's damn good at them. He also sometimes plays games with fairies.

How on earth is it possible that Jaimers is not mentioned at least twice in every post?

Jaimers

Jaimers

Jaimers

[Shepardus]

Don't forget his achievements in Undertale.

[chempop]

Jaimers

Jaimers

Jaimers

Can he use a stick yet?

[Shepardus]

I actually do recall that he got a stick and was practicing with it for a while. Not as good with it but still probably better than most of us.

He also holds the community record for Gemini Wing so it's not just "modern" shmups he's good at.

[Blinge]

How on earth is it possible that Jaimers is not mentioned at least twice in every post?

2 gud jaimers.

I don't don't care for the attitude a lot of good players around here have: 'I don't have the world record, I'm not that good.'
Is this a TH thing, a basement dweller thing? I don't know.

I think a lot of people learn from a young age that bragging/ego is nauseating just from witnessing it. Probably from unwarranted outbursts, too.

Then again another way of looking at it is that absolutism that defines some people's posts. "If I'm not 100% perfect I'm a steaming pile of shite!! "

I know where I stand

[Squire Grooktook]

It's definitely not exclusive to stg's, I've seen that same philosophy in RTS and fighting game communities.

It's stupid as hell anyway. I understand the value of humility, but if you're a league above 90% of players then it's not only non-communicative to say that you're "bad", but also loops the other way around and sounds arrogant considering you're indirectly calling everyone below you absolutely terrible.

There's no real universally accepted/defined definition of "good at games" anyway. The only really useful or non-arbitrary metric would be to say whether your above the "average level" (that is, the majority of players within the genre) or not.

[Xyga]

Isn't it just mimicking Asian player's attitude anyway ? It's kind of expected that 'top' performers at whatever show some degree of humility, it's expected social behaviour, I don't see why western players aligning themselves to that would be a problem...

Doing the opposite, that is glorifying the best, putting them on a pedestal, can have negative effects, mainly for the concerned players themselves wherever they are from.

But excuse me but; why is this important all of a sudden ? Do shmuppies need idols to look up to, or what ?
You can make a fun roster with pics, adited or not and a ranking with 'up' and 'down' arrow if you want, that won't change a thing.
Well maybe it would if shmuppers were getting paid sponsor money, but hey lol.
"Im a celebrity where's my shmap money!?"

[Squire Grooktook]

Isn't it just mimicking Asian player's attitude anyway ? It's kind of expected that 'top' performers at whatever show some degree of humility, it's expected social behaviour, I don't see why western players aligning themselves to that would be a problem...'

There's a difference between "humility" and "saying you're bad when you can 2-all a Cave shmup with a respectable score". One is honest and realistic, the other at least seems pretentious on top of being unrealistic and misleading.

It's not a "big deal" or a "problem", I'm just calling it as I see it.

[DMC]

Isn't it just mimicking Asian player's attitude anyway ? It's kind of expected that 'top' performers at whatever show some degree of humility, it's expected social behaviour, I don't see why western players aligning themselves to that would be a problem...

I think that is part of the answer.
Another possibility is that since shmups are quite mechanical, you attribute your progress on the game getting easier rather than you becoming better.
And another possibility, people who are highly achievement-oriented generally tend to have a lot of thoughts that include guilt and shame, so the "i'm shitty" comments from top-level players may reflect the latter.

[Xyga]

Isn't it just mimicking Asian player's attitude anyway ? It's kind of expected that 'top' performers at whatever show some degree of humility, it's expected social behaviour, I don't see why western players aligning themselves to that would be a problem...'

There's a difference between "humliity" and "saying you're bad when you can 2-all a Cave shmup". One is honest and realistic, the other at least seems pretentious on top of being unrealistic.

I'm not sure there's any ill intent from someone saying this really, it's clumsy most of the time maybe, but yeah that kind of 'positioning' can piss off some people anywhere in the world, whether it's intended or not.

Whatever, if you do well at something you might get some exposure, welcome or not, and when that happens whatever you say will please some and at the same time anger others, always.
This is probably why there's quite a number to think this thread is somewhat cringe-inducing.

@DMC; yup haven't thought of that.

[Squire Grooktook]

Nah, that philosophy is too prevalent in non-stg genres like rts and fighters. It's not an stg exclusive thing.

Isn't it just mimicking Asian player's attitude anyway ? It's kind of expected that 'top' performers at whatever show some degree of humility, it's expected social behaviour, I don't see why western players aligning themselves to that would be a problem...'

There's a difference between "humliity" and "saying you're bad when you can 2-all a Cave shmup". One is honest and realistic, the other at least seems pretentious on top of being unrealistic.

I'm not sure there's any ill intent from someone saying this really

While it's not exactly "malevolent" some people are a bit dogmatic while failing at philosophy pretty hard.

IE

"I won't call myself above average until I place top 5 in evo"

^^^Something I've actually heard people say. Nothing wrong with it. Besides being stupid as fuck.

"Starcraft tournament players are trash, even the highest level world wide competitors are only mediocre at best, because they still make mistakes."

^^^Another actual quote. I don't even know where to begin...


Like I said, it's not a "problem" but I don't see the need to play apologist for such impractical and arbitrary definitions of good/bad. I just call 'em as I see 'em.

[Nameschonvergeben]

Why are the people who claim to be casuals that don't care for getting good always the ones that get offended if someone dares to imply they are in fact not good?

[Hagane]

Some people have higher standards than others, that's all. Some are content with anything, some want to get the best they can from what they do.

People like the Touhou is Harder guys have a much higher degree of understanding of the genre than the rest of the players, so they have higher expectations for their performances. And they also realise that a basic 2-ALL, which might seem impressive to the rest of us, is still leagues away in terms of skill from the level of play displayed by the good Japanese players. No reason to get upset over that.