the best players on shmups.system11.org are....

[Eaglet]

I get why you feel that way and apologize if you feel like I treat you like an idiot.
As I said above, I do agree with you in general but from what I've seen of any game I've gotten into, Garegga sets itself apart. Probably is a combination both of the possibilities (options) the game offers but primarily the level of play that people have pushed it to.
For as much time and effort that I and players like ICR and Plasmo have put into it there's simply no way we would be able to reach up to the level of WR scores.
Take the WS record for example. It's a unique combination of an exceptionally rare bird score with EVERYTHING ELSE in the game flawlessly executed with great amounts of RNG luck.
Even if you were to get a run with the perfect RNG required to raise it you'd have to execute everything flawlessly with not a single mistake made.
The current WR holder estimates it would've taken him anywhere from 5-10 more years to reach such a score and this is coming from the person who is the absolute best at the ship.
Garegga scores should not be underestimated.

I agree, but what the game itself offers up in terms of scoring depth is a limiter on how hard those ridiculous scores will be to achieve.

[Sakurei]

My favorite shmup Garegga...It's...cute...lovely...smart...plus...amazing...you think so?...oh yes...it's...stunning...kindly...love it! Hug it...when...sleeping...warm and cuddly...spectacular...ravishing...Oops! Look at the time! I kept you too long! Thanks for hearing me out!

[chum]

I get why you feel that way and apologize if you feel like I treat you like an idiot.

Alright, that's comforting.

As I said above, I do agree with you in general but from what I've seen of any game I've gotten into, Garegga sets itself apart. Probably is a combination both of the possibilities (options) the game offers but primarily the level of play that people have pushed it to.

It's a popular game, as far as I know, so it would have difficult competition, of course. It's just that those qualities you described, I take for granted that games have those to varying degrees. Even at least one CAVE game have some pronounced RNG-execution stuff. Try to optimize Guwange's catspider milking sometime, there's several variables at play there and a mediocre player could never do it no matter how much they practiced, until they've "leveled up". even then, it's super hard to deal with the RNG and variables to get anywhere near acceptable results for a competitive run.

For as much time and effort that I and players like ICR and Plasmo have put into it there's simply no way we would be able to reach up to the level of WR scores.
Take the WS record for example. It's a unique combination of an exceptionally rare bird score with EVERYTHING ELSE in the game flawlessly executed with great amounts of RNG luck.
Even if you were to get a run with the perfect RNG required to raise it you'd have to execute everything flawlessly with not a single mistake made.
The current WR holder estimates it would've taken him anywhere from 5-10 more years to reach such a score and this is coming from the person who is the absolute best at the ship.
Garegga scores should not be underestimated.

I believe you, but I still believed in what I said. Kamui herself plays the game and got her score, so she is living proof that it was possible. Of course, that means it is also possible to score just a little bit higher, by the same token, it is possible that someone else could be turn out to be a slightly more consistent/better player. I dunno what a Gain leaderboard looks like, though, or how many people could hope to challenge Kamui presently. I'm merely stating what I'm stating as a principle. Scores can also be set very unexpectedly... If you think something might take 5 years, it might never actually happen, or it might happen in a matter of months.

[Eaglet]

I agree that most games have those aspects to varying degrees, but the point I was trying to drive home is how shock full Garegga is of those crucial moments.


This situation is a bit special imo. Kamui has dominated Gain with no direct competition for 16 years and has continued to push herself and her playing through the entirety of that time. Nobody has even come close to give her competition during that time and I think there's only a handful of players (though not sure) who have ever reached the "easy" 20 mil.
If you've ever seen her play on one of her regular days I'm sure you'd agree that you'd be hard pressed to find a more consistent Garegga player.
All of my praise is well funded in regards to her as a player. Truly one of the best in the history of the genre.

Also, that final point about time required; from what I heard he got fed up with trying around 2013 or something. He had been playing non-stop since release and still does of course. One of the few with a 20 mil Gain score.

[Plasmo]

For as much time and effort that I and players like ICR and Plasmo have put into it there's simply no way we would be able to reach up to the level of WR scores.

Just dropping by to say that I haven't really put a lot of time into Garegga yet. Just a few months of on and off play.

[Eaglet]

I'm the same but it leads to a lot of accumulated time over the years. Which is muy importante for this game.

[Plasmo]

But then it's not surprising that we can't even come close to Kamui. Noone was and is playing Garegga seriously.

We're all scrubs who show no commitment at all. All players here at shmups.com generally suck. All of you.

[Icarus]

But then it's not surprising that we can't even come close to Kamui. Noone was and is playing Garegga seriously.
We're all scrubs who show no commitment at all. All players here at shmups.com generally suck. All of you.

Sorry, Dad.

[Strikers1945guy]

But then it's not surprising that we can't even come close to Kamui. Noone was and is playing Garegga seriously.

We're all scrubs who show no commitment at all. All players here at shmups.com generally suck. All of you.

Kamui is on another level though. He/she has been playing only Garegga for damn near over 15 years. If I started right now and never played any other shmup I don't believe I'd ever be close to what Kamui can do on that special replay thing Icarus put up on YouTube.

[Sakurei]

Putting players on a pedestal that is "unreachable" is the most effective way of never matching said player. What you need to do is not say "I'll never be as good at them" but practice and aim to be as good as them, or even better if that is your goal. And of course it will seem impossible to beat them if you never start or have just started. Elegant score play takes many qualitative hours of game play to produce so it is quite normal to think something nigh impossible when you just start out.

I think the time to reach Kamui's level if someone decent started today is less than fifteen years. Not because Kamui is bad or anything but because in those 15 years, the game has been optimized and old strats have been scrapped. If you never learn the old, bad strats then you're going to skip phases that old players like her went through. Increasing the theoretical score cap is quite difficult, after all, and requires a lot of trial and error usually. The first player ever to break and F or G score in Garegga will most likely have taken longer than the second or third and fourth etc simply because to get that score, they most likely had to develop the strategies in the game first and could only practice after everything was worked out. Something later players do not have to worry about. Thus many of those 15 years of play were likely spent raising the cap, scrapping old things and finding new stuff that was more profitable in the end.

Of course, some people might say "but I'm not talented" or something like that. And that may very well be true. But talent doesn't mean you will become the best player at something and no talent doesn't mean you will be forever shit. Talent is, for the very most part, something that simply allows a player to learn things quicker than normal. That means you might take ten hours to learn a trick that someone else can learn in one or two. But it doesn't mean you won't learn it. Both players need to put in quality time into the game to become good but the hours will vary from player to player every time. "X is on another level" just seems like an excuse to not even try to beat them to me. Don't do that, kids. It's not a good mindset.
Maybe there is a cap for people if they are "untalented" but if there is, it is insanely high to the point where it is unlikely that you will reach it within the time you actually play shmups. Excusing scrubbiness by saying "that's just as good as I'll get" just means you're not disciplined enough to actually learn the game. By the way, do recognize that I said qualitative hours. Just doing random shit for 2000 hours isn't going to help you much either.

[Bananamatic]

you can't say that players like SPS or ZAP aren't on another level

[Eaglet]

Sakurei, I would agree in any other case but as stated before; this is a special situation.
Kamui is nearing what is an absolute max of the game score wise (I don't think there even are 22 mil in the game) and all of those things that make her the best player is stuff that would still take years upon years of practice for a new player to learn.
At that level even the tiniest pixel difference of positioning matters when shot milking and stuff like that does not come to anyone who's just watched some recent replays and copied the f out of it.

Kamui's work is an amalgamation of all of her years as a Garegga player and that experience is not something to take lightly.

[Sakurei]

you can't say that players like SPS or ZAP aren't on another level

They are right now. In the same way no one comes even close to matching Yu-suke in Perfect Cherry Blossom. But that doesn't mean it is impossible to match them if you dedicate yourself to playing. It will take a long time, sure. But they're still human and can be beaten with time.

Sakurei, I would agree in any other case but as stated before; this is a special situation.
Kamui is nearing what is an absolute max of the game score wise (I don't think there even are 22 mil in the game) and all of those things that make her the best player is stuff that would still take years upon years of practice for a new player to learn.
At that level even the tiniest pixel difference of positioning matters when shot milking and stuff like that does not come to anyone who's just watched some recent replays and copied the f out of it.

Kamui's work is an amalgamation of all of her years as a Garegga player and that experience is not something to take lightly.

But that is what I'm saying. It took her years and years so why would it be impossible for someone else to reach that level if they played for years and years? I'm not saying it would be easy to beat her. I'm not saying it will be fast. I am saying it is possible. And even if Kamui get the absolute maximum for possible: Why should it not be possible for a new pursuing player to reach the same absolute maximum after years of playing?

[Eaglet]

But that is what I'm saying. It took her years and years so why would it be impossible for someone else to reach that level if they played for years and years? I'm not saying it would be easy to beat her. I'm not saying it will be fast. I am saying it is possible. And even if Kamui get the absolute maximum for possible: Why should it not be possible for a new pursuing player to reach the same absolute maximum after years of playing?

True! But the amount of time needed to be invested would not be realistic for anybody wanting to live any sort of normal life whatsoever.
For Kamui and the circumstances she had getting as good as she has being a pillar of a more or less thriving community (over these 20 years since the games release) with a lot of social interaction it's realistic to reach that kind of level without going insane or forsaking everything else in your life. For a western player that has none of those conditions from the get go all i see is a path towards insanity.
I mean, even amongst the top Japanese players, that are all the very best at the game and know it inside and out, there's none who'd even dream of taking up Gain with the purpose of setting a new WR.
That should tell you the kind of investment that's required.

[Strikers1945guy]

Kamui's dedication is absolutely insane. I wonder if he will finally take a break or retire from Garegga for a while or at least try out a few other games.

[Bananamatic]

*she

[yorgje]

>Posts: 911

i checked ur dubs, now check ur privilege

[Eaglet]

You're triggering my PTSD, cis het scum

[Shepardus]

a+ thread

[Strikers1945guy]

*she

Dont do this.

I go by original hardware.

[trap15]

Great reason to ignore preference and lifestyle, and to be a jackass.

[ProjectAKo]

Kamui's so godlike I'm willing to pretend.

Also in before lock.

[Giest118]

*she

Dont do this.

I go by original hardware.

You were once a baby. Therefore, you are and shall forever remain a baby regardless of what you or anyone else thinks. Here's a baby bottle to drink from while the adults talk.
Don't object, you go by original hardware.



So yeah, Kamui's a good player. Nobody's ever going to match her because nobody else gives enough of a shit. :V

[chempop]

As much as I love weenies and boobies and the possibilities involving them, I'm pretty sure we don't need to spend the better part of a page discussing them. Not here anyway. Feel free to make a thread in off topic about "girls(?) who shmup ~ to be or not to be, that is [one of the many] questions"

[Bananamatic]

Dont do this.

I go by original hardware.

Come on, it's 2016

[gimebe]

If Kamui has a penis, does she jerk off to Garegga as much as we do?

Or if she lacks one, would it mean that expressing one's love of Garegga with dick in hand was a mistake, and is in fact counterproductive for achieving great scores?




More on topic, the best players in the west are objectively Chum, Pazaizy, Cactu and Prometheus, or as I'm going to refer to them from now on, the CP crew. What is it about the letters C and P that makes players whose handles begin with them so good? There's even Project Ako and Perikles in the "P" group, for that matter.

[Plasmo]

More on topic, the best players in the west are objectively Chum, Pazaizy, Cactu and Prometheus, or as I'm going to refer to them from now on, the CP crew. What is it about the letters C and P that makes players whose handles begin with them so good? There's even Project Ako and Perikles in the "P" group, for that matter.

Your selection seems quite random to me.

Chum's Batrider score was beaten by Aquas long ago. He played Garegga and some Psikyo games, but nothing too seriously (?). Nice Strikers 99 2-All!
Pazaizy only (?) has a DOJ WL score. It's pretty high though.
I can't even find any good scores by Cactu?

And all 3 seem to have some Touhou stuff.

But I would agree on Prom. He hasn't played a lot of games, but those he played went golden.

[Sakurei]

More on topic, the best players in the west are objectively Chum, Pazaizy, Cactu and Prometheus, or as I'm going to refer to them from now on, the CP crew. What is it about the letters C and P that makes players whose handles begin with them so good? There's even Project Ako and Perikles in the "P" group, for that matter.

Your selection seems quite random to me.

Chum's Batrider score was beaten by Aquas long ago. He played Garegga and some Psikyo games, but nothing too seriously (?). Nice Strikers 99 2-All!
Pazaizy only (?) has a DOJ WL score. It's pretty high though.
I can't even find any good scores by Cactu?

And all 3 seem to have some Touhou stuff.

But I would agree on Prom. He hasn't played a lot of games, but those he played went golden.

Is this a shitpost? I can't tell.

[Cee]

Great reason to ignore preference and lifestyle, and to be a jackass.

I'll ignore all those for a preference of facts, Kamui is a man.

[cave hermit]

This thread is certainly going places.