Least Favorite Cave Shooter

[charlie chong]

watch out those tears might short circuit yor precious pcbs

[Strikers1945guy]

y u mad tho

Lol yes I am so mad.

Seriously though if that's how people like Obscura judge a game it's more shocking to me than anything.

Bananamatic is there any raizing games you like? Just curious.

[Strikers1945guy]

watch out those tears might short circuit yor precious pcbs

All in good fun sir, I see you are missing those pcbs you sold not too long ago at bargain prices?


Side note : if DeathsmIles 2 wasn't on that super shitty hardware I would have probably bought it to at least give it a good try if it was on SH3 boards abd fell to what deathsmiles PCBs were going for.

[Cee]

Gotta love all those "hard = bad" opinions and one trick pony plebs hating on Ibara but anyways Deathsmiles 2 is pretty wank, i downloaded the cracked one for free and still felt like i deserved a refund, straight in the recycle bin and crowned caves biggest turd.

[charlie chong]

watch out those tears might short circuit yor precious pcbs

All in good fun sir, I see you are missing those pcbs you sold not too long ago at bargain prices?


.

not rly i don't need to validate my opinions on gameplay by bringing up what pcbs i own in every discussion
these games were cool when they were £70-£150 but they no way have gameplay value in the prices you fools pay now.. you have all lost your minds

[Some-Mist]

the only Cave shooter left to be shat upon is Progear.

So if anyone wants to chime in to explain why someone who likes it is an idiot and/or be told that they're an idiot because they don't, now is your chance.

yea right! the only thing to really shit on is the bogus soundtrack and maybe the somewhat unconventional 2nd loop.

awesome steampunk theme, great selection of ship/gunner types, creative bosses with a just-difficult-enough 1st loop, organic bullet spreads, very interactive/fun bullet cancelling scoring system which you can tackle in a multitude of ways (strict chaining routes aren't required which makes it fun to create your own)... progear is one of the best maaaan

it's basically akai katana arcade mode with better bosses, scoring system, and pacing

[trap15]

progear's a steaming turd, I just hate doj or deathsmiles more. progear's cancelling takes out the joy of dodging, the failure to correct for aspect ratio makes movement and sprites totally fucked up, the loop is maximum retarded, the heavy bomb punishment makes using your resources incredibly over-punishing, most of the stage design is really formulaic (shoutouts to st4 and st5 for actually being really good though). I could probably keep going, but yeah progear blows ass.

[Bananamatic]

yeah, progear is pretty wank but not as bad as pink sweets

[Some-Mist]

progear's a steaming turd, I just hate doj or deathsmiles more. progear's cancelling takes out the joy of dodging, the failure to correct for aspect ratio makes movement and sprites totally fucked up, the loop is maximum retarded, the heavy bomb punishment makes using your resources incredibly over-punishing, most of the stage design is really formulaic (shoutouts to st4 and st5 for actually being really good though). I could probably keep going, but yeah progear blows ass.

I take it that you're not much of a fan of akai katana as well?

my first hands on with it was actually at that '13 (or maybe it was '12?) meetup in chicago and I fell in love. I love cancelling much more than I do dodging so I guess I'm not so much a purist? but gem streaming is orgasmic :>

stage 4 and 5 are by far the best in the game, though I really like the end of stage 2 leading up to the boss. I with you on the maximum retarded 2nd loop.

[CloudyMusic]

the only Cave shooter left to be shat upon is Progear.

So if anyone wants to chime in to explain why someone who likes it is an idiot and/or be told that they're an idiot because they don't, now is your chance.

[Xyga]

^ yeah this is pretty much what Shmups Chat has become these past few days.

[Icarus]

^ yeah this is pretty much what Shmups Chat has become these past few years.

[MachineAres 1CC]

^ yeah this is pretty much what Shmups Chat has become these past few decades.

[Obscura]

Would you rather just have a dead forum that consists of people saying "I like Game X!" "I agree!"?

It's the only other alternative.

[Eaglet]

^ yeah this is pretty much what Shmups Chat has become these past few decades.

It's the only other alternative.

[trap15]

Would you rather just have a dead forum that consists of people saying "I like Game X!" "I agree!"?

No, I entirely like it like this. Seeing why people dislike games is often a lot more interesting and telling than the other way around.

[Kollision]

I forgot to say that I also think Espgaluda is boring and deserves to be right there with Fever SOS as Cave's low point.

[Xyga]

Would you rather just have a dead forum that consists of people saying "I like Game X!" "I agree!"?

No, I entirely like it like this. Seeing why people dislike games is often a lot more interesting and telling than the other way around.

But it's too much sometimes, criticism is good, but many of us firing the turd cannon in every damn thread creates a heavy atmosphere (to say the least).

This is why I like threads like the MD thread for instance, love is sweet too you know.

*Macho Men playing in the background*

[Blinge]

progear's a steaming turd

no u

[KAI]

CPS2 master race.

[Shepardus]

progear's a steaming turd, I just hate doj or deathsmiles more. progear's cancelling takes out the joy of dodging, the failure to correct for aspect ratio makes movement and sprites totally fucked up, the loop is maximum retarded, the heavy bomb punishment makes using your resources incredibly over-punishing, most of the stage design is really formulaic (shoutouts to st4 and st5 for actually being really good though). I could probably keep going, but yeah progear blows ass.

I guess if you don't like cancelling you don't like cancelling, but I find the cancelling very satisfying. It also has the advantage of preventing dense walls (a common feature of CAVE games) from being the end of you, since if a wall becomes too dense to pass through it can often be cancelled and if it's too sparse to cancel then you can probably squeeze through it. Having options like that makes the game feel less frustrating to me because I don't feel as powerless to stop my deaths at any time.

I personally like the stage design - stages 1 and 2 aren't anything unique but I think they're fun, and starting from stage 3 you get a lot of enemies coming from all sides of the screen which encourage a lot of movement and activity, which I think is great. Stage 4's my favorite, and stage 5 is pretty good too, though a bit short compared to most CAVE final stages. The boss patterns are my favorites CAVE has to offer besides Ketsui - lots of acceleration/changing directions and pairing of fast bullets and slow bullets, without getting quite as dense as in many of CAVE's later games (until the 2-5 boss I guess).

I'm also not really sure what you mean with the aspect ratio stuff. I've never noticed anything that looked off in 4:3 aspect ratio (except maybe some bullet sprites?) and things definitely look off in 12:7 (such as the sun in the background of the stage 4 boss not being circular). As far as I can tell movement also works just fine in a 4:3 ratio (horizontal/vertical movement speed, angle/speed of diagonal movement), so I'm really not sure what you mean by that.

Totally agree with you about the loop (specifically the checkpointing-without-checkpoints, I think the rest is fine) and the punishment for bombing though.

[Strikers1945guy]

watch out those tears might short circuit yor precious pcbs

All in good fun sir, I see you are missing those pcbs you sold not too long ago at bargain prices?


.

not rly i don't need to validate my opinions on gameplay by bringing up what pcbs i own in every discussion
these games were cool when they were £70-£150 but they no way have gameplay value in the prices you fools pay now.. you have all lost your minds

To be honest some of the best games are still very affordable.

[Squire Grooktook]

Would you rather just have a dead forum that consists of people saying "I like Game X!" "I agree!"?

It's the only other alternative.

Strawmen are valid arguments!

I see you weren't being sarcastic about this ^_^

No, I entirely like it like this. Seeing why people dislike games is often a lot more interesting and telling than the other way around.

That's silly. Insight doesn't come from liking or disliking something, it comes from crushing the skull of a madman being analytical. BIL has proven time and time again that you can like something and still be deeply interesting in explaining why, and that you can dislike something and explain why without sounding completely toxic about it.

[finisherr]

My least favorite Cave games are Akai Katana and DFK due to the bullet shields. Just don't like games with that sort of mechanic. I didn't play Deathsmiles, but I have a feelign I wouldn't like it.

[trap15]

BIL has proven time and time again that you can like something and still be deeply interesting in explaining why

Because BIL has put significant time into thinking about his opinions and presenting them in a productive and entertaining way. Very few other people (if any?) put nearly as much thought into their opinions or what they play (if they even play at all).

[Squire Grooktook]

BIL has proven time and time again that you can like something and still be deeply interesting in explaining why

Because BIL has put significant time into thinking about his opinions and presenting them in a productive and entertaining way. Very few other people (if any?) put nearly as much thought into their opinions or what they play (if they even play at all).

Yeah, good point.

You may be right that peoples knee-jerk reactions to not liking something might give a better picture of it then their knee-jerk reactions to liking things. Goodness knows, several of the superplayers around here have never given me any reason to like their favored games besides "it's deep", "it's perfect", etc.

Then again, they don't always correctly identify why they don't like the game. I've seen several people say they didn't like a game because of x thing, when x wasn't even in the game lol.

[BIL]

My ears are burning D: ;3

[Obiwanshinobi]

Insight doesn't come from liking or disliking something, it comes from crushing the skull of a madman being analytical.

It does? I think it at least as much comes from hindsight. To give my recent favourite example - Metroid Prime designers clearly took their time analysing what makes Metroid game a Metroid game, yet somewhat failed to grasp what made (at least Super) Metroid fun first and foremost. Therefore being analytical was not enough to gain insight in this case.

Then we all sometimes may feel uncomfortable about reasons why we like something, thus we go on splitting hair to avoid unwanted insight we already have.

[Squire Grooktook]

It does? I think it at least as much comes from hindsight.

Well you can't analyze something if you haven't played it. Likewise, trying to do something (like being analytical) is no guarantee you'll succeed.

Crushing a skull will always work though.

Also for the record, I do think Retro successfully captured the fun of exploration in the Metroid Prime games. That much they got right. It was the basic movement and combat they faltered on. But those were very hit and miss for 3d action games in general back then (and still are IMO).

[NTSC-J]

progear's a steaming turd...progear's cancelling takes out the joy of dodging, the failure to correct for aspect ratio makes movement and sprites totally fucked up, the loop is maximum retarded, the heavy bomb punishment makes using your resources incredibly over-punishing, most of the stage design is really formulaic (shoutouts to st4 and st5 for actually being really good though). I could probably keep going, but yeah progear blows ass.

I agree with most of that, and yet I don't think Progear is a turd that blows ass (does it blow Progear out of its ass?). You mention that stages 4 and 5 are "really good" so that's like half the game already. It's far from my favorite, but let's not overstate things and say it's a shit sandwich when it's really just a flawed effort with some good stuff in there. One of the bosses is named Jimchuck Spanner!