Dodonpachi Saidaioujou general thread

[Bananamatic]

discuss sdoj related things
why didn't you vote for sdoj in top 25 and if you did, why wasn't it weighted as 25?
is the input lag too much or is it still playable?
1.0 or 1.5? or are you too cool for that and prefer 360 mode?
is sdoj the next steam port? can a shmup be TOO anime?
would sdoj be vaporwave if it was too purple instead of too blue? should the steam port exclusive soundtrack be made by ＭＡＣプラス?

I'm just going to contribute by saying that clearing expert with hibachi is harder than futari ultra, definitely one of the hardest non insane cave clears
the st4 and st5 bosses are crazy hard on expert
it's still a great game though and Softdrink should stream it again

[d0s]

Just got it for 360 a few days ago, when I first started it I wasn't paying attention and chose 360 mode and got freaked out by the waifus shouting gibberish at me from the side windows. Now I play arcade mode with the voice volume down. I don't mind anime in shooters but this is the wrong kind of anime, it's still great as a game though

e: when I bought it the guy at the store said "this is the worst DDP since bee storm"

[Bananamatic]

you should go back and tell the guy at the store that his taste in games sucks

[Chaos Phoenixma]

I don't really like the game. It's probably the worst in the series for me unless we count DFK BL.

When I was playing it, it felt playable despite the input lag. It still shouldn't be there though.

1.5 is best mode, no overflow crap, better Hyper mechanics. Still not great though.

I think they'll probably port DFK first. There's more potential for DLC because you have Black Label, OSTs, and Ketsuipachi

[Squire Grooktook]

I cannot speak about the more competitive aspects, but the basic patterns and level designed seemed pretty good. Almost "quintessential danmaku" good like DOJ and Ketsui.

The lag would probably be tolerable for me if I was really into it, but I'm not as much into straight forward danmaku shooters these days. I'm more into gimmicky weapon systems and more manic/movement intensive dodging then pure focus-mode micro dodging. Guwange and Dangun are pretty much the only Cave games I try to score at these days.

It's a real good game though, and I'd probably play it casually some more if I had a port that felt more comfortable.

[Shepardus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68ugkg9RePc

[iconoclast]

>why didn't you vote for sdoj in top 25 and if you did, why wasn't it weighted as 25?
Because only DOJ and Futari deserve maximum weighting

>is the input lag too much or is it still playable?
It's literally unplayable

>1.0 or 1.5? or are you too cool for that and prefer 360 mode?
1.5 is better, but I'll only play 1.0 because nobody cares about non-arcade games. And getting an overflow feels so good.

>is sdoj the next steam port? can a shmup be TOO anime?
Yes and no

[Bananamatic]

And getting an overflow feels so good.

have you ever tried setting the game to 16 oku every extend and then overflowing?
does the operator lose her shit with the extendo voice or is there a cap? it doesn't work in practice iirc

[BulletMagnet]

The best way I can put my feelings about the game is that, while I like a lot about the way things are put together, the game felt "mean" to me in a way that no other title in the series did. Even DOJ, while tough, never felt like it was outright stealing lives from you; this one, though, for whatever reason, always seemed to kill me in spots where I could swear I should have gotten away with it. I don't know whether it's the aforementioned input lag, a change to the hitbox I never adjusted to, my own imagination, or something else entirely, but I never felt "comfortable" with SDOJ, almost every death made me say "whuh?" I really have no concrete explanation for why the bugger rubbed me that way, since so many other things about it make me want to consider it the best of the series (enough to throw it a zero vote, anyway), but if other challenging shooters I've enjoyed are intimidating tough guys with hearts of gold, this one's just a big, strong, handsome jerk.

[Squire Grooktook]

Yeah the bigger hitbox + input lag + overall much higher base difficulty really crosses the line a bit in terms of accessibility.

It feels like Aero Chimera and Mars Matrix where the creator just didn't give a fuck about "normal" people being able to clear it on defaults in a reasonable amount of time. It feels strangely proud of its brutality, and I have mixed feelings about that from a game design perspective (at least on "normal"/default difficulties).

Not even sure Mars Matrix belongs in that comparison to be honest, which is saying something.

[iconoclast]

And getting an overflow feels so good.

have you ever tried setting the game to 16 oku every extend and then overflowing?
does the operator lose her shit with the extendo voice or is there a cap? it doesn't work in practice iirc

Never tried that, but if you want to check, you could probably just make it to stage 5 in normal play and use the restart function every time you screw up. I used to play with the game audio muted anyway.

[Zaarock]

1.5 is better, Expert is fun. With normal, expert & 360 modes there's nice mode variety like Futari. Would play more if input lag wasn't there. Don't like how slowdown works sometimes (switch from shot to laser -> both player ship & bullets speed up). Should put more time into 1.5 A-EX tbh.

Yeah the bigger hitbox + input lag + overall much higher base difficulty really crosses the line a bit in terms of accessibility.

Play novice expert or 360 mode? Also, what about 1cc Pink Sweets on defaults :3

[Squire Grooktook]

Yeah 360 is an option, and I'm fine with that. Speaking of the base arcade game though, it seems uniquely nasty in a way that most arcade stg's aren't.

The difficulty isn't really a problem for me, but like I said, from a game design decision, I really wonder what was going through their heads when they decided to make normal as hard as it is. Weren't they trying to make their games more accessible and pander to otaku with the loli/moe aesthetic? Seems like they were really confused in terms of what they wanted to communicate or who they wanted to reach out to.

[Bananamatic]

And getting an overflow feels so good.

have you ever tried setting the game to 16 oku every extend and then overflowing?
does the operator lose her shit with the extendo voice or is there a cap? it doesn't work in practice iirc

Never tried that, but if you want to check, you could probably just make it to stage 5 in normal play and use the restart function every time you screw up. I used to play with the game audio muted anyway.

tried, doesn't work
seems to be a 7 extend hard cap
i remember someone having the same idea in dfk but that didn't work either

[monouchi]

Its a great game and I like it, playing the pcb is a great experience.
But to me the game is so bland.... music, stages etc, so for me it never gets that visual/audio punch in variation like in some other games.

Its stylish though, I will say that.

[Squire Grooktook]

I actually kind of like the sleek, bright, cyberpunk look. Stage 3's waterpark with it's "pretty" theme song is really nice, atmospherically.

Stage 1 is nice too, I like the part where you see the highways from up above. Probably the problem is that the theme gets a bit repetitive (I feel the same way about Mushi. What will the next stage be? Green Forest? Floating Green Forest? Village in a Green Forest? or Revenge of The Green Forest?)

[waiwainl]

you should go back and tell the guy at the store that his taste in games sucks

I am surprised a store guy knows at all about DDP Bee Storm! Usually the kiddo's behind the counter don't know anything further back than 3 years ago

[d0s]

you should go back and tell the guy at the store that his taste in games sucks

I am surprised a store guy knows at all about DDP Bee Storm! Usually the kiddo's behind the counter don't know anything further back than 3 years ago

Not really surprising for this store (VGNY) they're cool and knowledgeable dudes, too bad their prices for retro stuff are kinda crazy. For recent imports and arcade stick parts they're great though

[Cagar]

Stages 1-3 = Very fun.
From Stage 3 boss to credits, the game feels completely different. Like if it was made by a different designer or summer help.
It goes from nice natural danmaku to full-blown memoshit in both, stage layouts and boss patterns.
Obviously memorizing things makes all shmups easier, but SDOJ is on a level where the difficulty swings from forced bomb/death to completely trivial, based on your knowledge and not your dodging/shooting skills. (and obviously I'm talking about casual shot/laser runs)
I still like the game a lot, and would probably like it even more without the input lag.

[Strikers1945guy]

Input lag is horrible and I won't play it anymore. Hopefully one day I own the PCB. I actually love the visuals and audio. It reminds me of Donpachi in the Espgaluda world.... if that makes sense. I don't hate the difficulty curve or expert mode at all but again I refuse to put time into it with the input lag rendering it worthless.

For voting well I mean Bananamatic why didn't you vote for the greatest creation Yagawa ever blessed us with, Ibara?

[Bananamatic]

difficulty swings from forced bomb/death to completely trivial, based on your knowledge and not your dodging/shooting skills

so in other words it's a shmup

[Squire Grooktook]

Not really. A good game designer can easily create something that's doable on the first try (it's called telegraphing, it's a really basic game design concept) and yet remains challenging even when everything is memorized.

[KAI]

This game needs a Black Label version so bad.

[pestro87]

This game needs a Black Label version so bad.

[Bananamatic]

Not really. A good game designer can easily create something that's doable on the first try (it's called telegraphing, it's a really basic game design concept) and yet remains challenging even when everything is memorized.

[Strikers1945guy]

Not really. A good game designer can easily create something that's doable on the first try (it's called telegraphing, it's a really basic game design concept) and yet remains challenging even when everything is memorized.

Of course I want a game where survival is easier than scoring but who the hell wants to play a shmup you could easily 1CC on your first try? If I wanted that I'd play Milestone games.

[Bananamatic]

pretty sure there was a video of someone getting to the final boss on the 1st try

[Strikers1945guy]

pretty sure there was a video of someone getting to the final boss on the 1st try

On expert mode?

[trap15]

If you like the sound, don't get the PCB. CAVE was too cheap to shell out an extra $5/board on two more sound ROM chips, so everything is compressed to hell. Hope you enjoy poor definition and a shitload of crackling.

[Shepardus]

Not really. A good game designer can easily create something that's doable on the first try (it's called telegraphing, it's a really basic game design concept) and yet remains challenging even when everything is memorized.

Of course I want a game where survival is easier than scoring but who the hell wants to play a shmup you could easily 1CC on your first try? If I wanted that I'd play Milestone games.

Nobody said easily 1CC, just feasible without being either psychic or super lucky. Telegraphing could be as simple as, say, showing the trail of a laser before it fires, or keeping bullet speed at a moderate level. It acts as a visual (or aural) cue even after the first playthrough. It makes the difference between having to memorize every little detail about attack patterns and the order in which they're used, and being able to get by with the right techniques but still having to execute said strategies, sight-read some stuff, or be prompted on which attack is coming next. It's also necessary to add any meaningful amount of randomization without turning the game into a complete luckfest (imagine trying to survive a Psikyo second-loop boss with random attack order and without the visual warnings some attacks have).