Im a Noob Gradius Kills me

[PowerofElsydeon]

Hi im a hardcore fan of the Contra Series but sadly for me I ve only found my interest in real shooters very recently and Im glad i ve beat 4 gems from compile (MUSHA Blazing Lazers Space Megaforce and Aleste 2)
Due to my personal freindship for the konami brand I ve always been interested on the gradius árcades despite being intimidated by them so Im giving a chance for the árcade gradius (on psp)
But I suck at it
The moai heads tend to kill me 90% of time and I haven t got my ass on the stage 4 Boss (as you migth have read I ve only been playing vertical ones until this point and im having trouble shooting ground enemies especially on stage 4)
I dont think Ninja Gaiden or Contra come close to this frustraiton
But I just can t turn down this awesome paced game
If you veterans were on my situation what would you do
a) Endure this the legit way
b)Try easier horizontal shumps and get back to it later
c)Use Easier Settings and Turn Down the Speed to PAL then try the legit mode

[Master O]

Hi im a hardcore fan of the Contra Series but sadly for me I ve only found my interest in real shooters very recently and Im glad i ve beat 4 gems from compile (MUSHA Blazing Lazers Space Megaforce and Aleste 2)
Due to my personal freindship for the konami brand I ve always been interested on the gradius árcades despite being intimidated by them so Im giving a chance for the árcade gradius (on psp)
But I suck at it
The moai heads tend to kill me 90% of time and I haven t got my ass on the stage 4 Boss (as you migth have read I ve only been playing vertical ones until this point and im having trouble shooting ground enemies especially on stage 4)
I dont think Ninja Gaiden or Contra come close to this frustraiton
But I just can t turn down this awesome paced game
If you veterans were on my situation what would you do
a) Endure this the legit way
b)Try easier horizontal shumps and get back to it later
c)Use Easier Settings and Turn Down the Speed to PAL then try the legit mode

One thing to focus on when playing Gradius is to develop your peripheral vision so that you can use options (orange orbs that follow the ship) in your blind spots. Remember that your options are indestructible so use that to your advantage.

[ACSeraph]

No one is born good at these games, the best way to really defeat Gradius 1 AC is to simply practice using save states. I don't think you should adjust any other settings to make it easier or you won't feel as much pride in your clear. Save states are a very legit method of practice, and they will make a huge difference in your speed of progression in this genre.

[Herr Schatten]

If you are struggeling with Gradius (arcade), I suggest not going for other, completely different, easier games first. I think you should try to hone your skills on various home ports of the game instead, then come back for the real thing. The game mechanics of the Gradius games are quite unique, and I always need some time to adapt to them after having played other shmups, so it might be a good idea to stick to them, but find an easier way to get good at them.

The NES version of Gradius is fairly doable, as is the Commodore 64 port (if you can stand the chunky graphics and lack of music). After that you can move on to the PC-Engine version. If you feel you're confident enough in that one, you're definitely ready to tackle the arcade version.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Loosely related anecdote: I just revisited Gradius V after (I think) years of not playing it. Lately I've been only playing Gradius Advance/Galaxies of the whole franchise and, as everybody who'd played both might agree, V has got more polished gameplay (the ship speed) BUT I miss the Galaxies' demented point-blanking (auto-fire rate at point-blank range is CRAZY fast in the latter). V is a more playable shmup, but has nothing like it (atuo-fire rate seems the same to me regardless of the distance). Everyone interested, play both and see for yourself how huge difference this feature alone does make.
I've yet to play all Gradius games, never mind every port of each, so let me know if any other one than Galaxies boasts point-blanking this powerful.

[Perikles]

No one is born good at these games, the best way to really defeat Gradius 1 AC is to simply practice using save states.

While this holds a lot of truth in general I don't think it is necessary in Gradius. The great thing about Gradius to my mind is that you can get through every section of the game without prior knowledge. There are no particularly tricky sections, no nasty enemy formations, no frightening combinations of terrain and foes etc. Just honest enemies that shoot at you. Regular practice should be more than enough to clear this game.

I would also highly recommend to continue playing after a death, it is perfectly possible to recover from every spot in the game (it is comparatively much more difficult to do so at the end of stage 4 and in most parts of the final stage, though).

R-Type on the other hand would be a great candidate for savestates. I remember vividly how I cleared the first loop the very first time: didn't watch any video, didn't use any efficient means of practice, just trying again and again. Took me an embarrassingly long time, but I was pleased as punch once I finally got it.

[pegboy]

Loosely related anecdote: I just revisited Gradius V after (I think) years of not playing it. Lately I've been only playing Gradius Advance/Galaxies of the whole franchise and, as everybody who'd played both might agree, V has got more polished gameplay (the ship speed) BUT I miss the Galaxies' demented point-blanking (auto-fire rate at point-blank range is CRAZY fast in the latter). V is a more playable shmup, but has nothing like it (atuo-fire rate seems the same to me regardless of the distance). Everyone interested, play both and see for yourself how huge difference this feature alone does make.
I've yet to play all Gradius games, never mind every port of each, so let me know if any other one than Galaxies boasts point-blanking this powerful.

You can definitely speed kill the bosses in Gradius V, you have to use double (or E-Laser...lol). I'm not sure how useful it is beyond loop 1 as the bosses start having much more life, but it is doable at least for the first loop. Take a look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUmKDa0aowk

Check out the video starting around 1:06:00. Speed kill of the heart boss before it finishes it's first attack pattern.

[Squire Grooktook]

No one is born good at these games, the best way to really defeat Gradius 1 AC is to simply practice using save states.

While this holds a lot of truth in general I don't think it is necessary in Gradius. The great thing about Gradius to my mind is that you can get through every section of the game without prior knowledge. There are no particularly tricky sections, no nasty enemy formations, no frightening combinations of terrain and foes etc. Just honest enemies that shoot at you. Regular practice should be more than enough to clear this game.

Yes this is true, I 1-alled Gradius Arcade on my second attempt, and the first attempt was a silly not paying attention chain death on the second stage lol. After that, everything else was just honest dodging.

But yeah, don't worry about being bad. Anyone who's good had to work to get there. My best advice would be to not care about dying: just enjoy playing, and if you really want to clear something, read some tips, do some memorization, watch some videos for strategies, etc. Might take a while, so if you're not enjoying it or feel overwhelmed, you could always try something easier instead.

[copy-paster]

The key is : Practice! Practice! PRACTICE!

Yeah, I first found Gradius I AC/Nes is very shitty when I first played it (Life force nes is my first Gradius game btw). The thing that Gradius AC is really tough is the last stage, I found every spot in last stage is almost-impossible to recover from death. Even better if you're playing on PSP Gradius Collection because the reliable autofire and easier default setting which I also 1-ALLing it on this port.

Note : If you are playing the game on MAME, just enable the autofire and do suicide in mid-stage 2 to make Moai stage easier.

[Dirty Casual]

Lots of cool advice in this thread!

Yes this is true, I 1-alled Gradius Arcade on my second attempt, and the first attempt was a silly not paying attention chain death on the second stage lol. After that, everything else was just honest dodging.

This made me curious! Do you have a particular meaning to "honest dodging"? Is that as opposed to leveraging knowledge/memorization? Like you just see something and move out of the way without thinking?

[Squire Grooktook]

This made me curious! Do you have a particular meaning to "honest dodging"? Is that as opposed to leveraging knowledge/memorization? Like you just see something and move out of the way without thinking?

What I had in mind was just that the game telegraphs everything fairly: nothing that's truly impossible without foreknowledge.

The only time memorization can truly be nullified (from a game design perspective) is with smart use of random elements, which force you to improvise. The first few Gradius games are a little random in parts, but you should be able to form a route that gets you through it consistently. On the first loop at least.

(except the crystal stage in Gradius 2 Arcade *shudder*)

[pegboy]

I would just play it and use save states to practice. For instance, just make a save state at the start of each stage, so you can easily practice them (especially the later stages).

There are a few nasty surprises on the final stage that can kill you outright if you don't know they are coming. They definitely got me the first time I reached those spots.

[PowerofElsydeon]

Thank you for your encouragement everyone
I won t put this game down until the end
After all Im talking about a adicting game even if im not doing much progresso
Thanks again

[Ex_Mosquito]

It's one of the easier hori shoot em' ups, well the first loop anyway.saying that, it can get pretty tricky on the Moa and final stage if you go in blind with no prior strategy.

I made a Gradius AC tips and strategy guide with audio commentary if you're really getting stuck.
Don't give up!
https://youtu.be/QsiaXiWy6sI

[Obiwanshinobi]

You can definitely speed kill the bosses in Gradius V, you have to use double (or E-Laser...lol). I'm not sure how useful it is beyond loop 1 as the bosses start having much more life, but it is doable at least for the first loop. Take a look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUmKDa0aowk

Check out the video starting around 1:06:00. Speed kill of the heart boss before it finishes it's first attack pattern.

I think you can only be this effective at point blank range with at least one option, when you place it inside of the enemy('s core). Single pew-pew gun or even laser in V never feels particulary fast-firing to me (whereas in Advance/Galaxies even basic weapon is up there with the most abusable auto-repeat attacks in recent memory).

I can't get enough of V all over again, although my current condition gets in the way (left thumb can handle analogue stick well enough, but with d-pad - the workout-induced fatigue rears its ugly head). I know some people play console shmups with 8-directional controls using thumbsticks, but I don't feel like doing that (which also keeps my Under Defeat PS3 copy out of blast for the time being).
I mean, when you know your preferred way of playing a game isn't most effective right now, but you keep coming back to it, that's a sign of - nomen omen - treasure.

[Captain]

i actually suggest option 3, especially for shooters like gradius.

play once with states, take notes.

then go legit.

[gray117]

I think it kills everyone except the grand wizards of shmup playing ... you can kind of cheat with psp saves - probably the best way to keep your options and keep the difficulty to a manageable level... I do wish there were a couple more settings on the lives/respawn front to help accessibility [even if it negated/punished/rest your score] ...

[Magma Dragoon]

The only Gradius game I ever used savestates was Gradius III arcade.

[chronicdog]

Endurance is the prime trait you need for this genre.

Take breaks, I suggest 30 minute play sessions. Shmups are much more intense than most videogames, yes you CAN play them for 3-4 hour sessions but it is often frustrating and exhausting to do so because the intensity level is so high.

Usually, after taking a break or the next day, that "wall" you couldnt get over will come tumbling down and become just merely another minor hurdle to the final boss.

[PowerofElsydeon]

Thank you for ur encouragement
I do possess determination and perserverance it s just that the Gradius síndrome kills me
I ve got great news I m managed to get past stage 4 once and to my surprise stage 5 and 6 weren t very hard
But the Dagumu Hatches still rape me hard
Oh I Don t know if the 4 Konami Deluxe Packs are worth the price but I ve bougth the Gradius one just because it would a honor to beat it on a big screen on real hardware but i ve forgot to buy the action replay carbridge since I ve only got my hands on the Saturn about the beggining of this month
Is Gradius II harder and better than the original just like hardcore gaming tells me?

I know this is very off topic but why don t you shumpers take the Defender seriously I ve never seen that game on one of your top 25 anual lists plus it s obvius giminick sets it apart every other shooter except Fantasy Zone
Plus I assume most of us are westerners and it s irratating how your all of your top 25 shumps are developed by Japanese who barely care about publishing games worldwide
Maybe the graphics are old as shit but it s still fun to play for me despite my lack of skill to go very far
So why dont you take defender seriously?

[Obiwanshinobi]

I can't remember many folks voting for Scramble either, or multi-directional scrollers like Bosconian and Time Pilot while we're at it.
By the way, Baraduke predates Fantasy Zone and I doubt the former was even the first of its kind.

[Despatche]

One thing that would greatly help you with the original Gradius is to not play it on the little old PSP. I'm not saying shmups can't work on portables, but I am saying that Gradius might not be so great on PSP, especially not a game that isn't specifically designed for the smaller screen. It's good to see you fixed this problem, Gradius Deluxe Pack is fantastic.

Is Gradius II harder and better than the original just like hardcore gaming tells me?

Harder, yes. That's not a good thing; there are points where you legitimately cannot recover and you're just plain forced to reset. The original Gradius does not have this problem, and is a much better game for it.

I know this is very off topic but why don t you shumpers take the Defender seriously I ve never seen that game on one of your top 25 anual lists plus it s obvius giminick sets it apart every other shooter except Fantasy Zone
Plus I assume most of us are westerners and it s irratating how your all of your top 25 shumps are developed by Japanese who barely care about publishing games worldwide
Maybe the graphics are old as shit but it s still fun to play for me despite my lack of skill to go very far
So why dont you take defender seriously?

There are two reasons for this:

1a. Yes, the forum really does have a Japanese bias. While euroshmups are a real problem, the people here also routinely ignore Defender and Robotron and Tempest and so on, and that's an equally terrible problem.
1b. Thing is, you usually can't get them to play older games in general. It's hard to get people to play anything considered "classic", a good range for this being pretty much anything from before the mid-'90s. Similarly tragic, and feeds back into the above situation of the genre being dominated by Japanese developers; Western developers just don't want to make good shmups anymore, and those that do end up good tend to be considered "Japanese-styled", whatever that means.
1c. It doesn't help that most of the shmups ever made stem from a few key Japanese games, because they chose to keep furthering the genre as a whole while everyone else chose to follow them. Yes, there is Spacewar! and Defender, but most shmups descend from the likes of Xevious and Scramble. Look through the entire bulk of Western shmups and you'll find so many R-Type or Raiden clones (or rather, games that are explicitly inspired by, but vaguely resemble, R-Type). Nearly all of the great Western shmups were made way back before the genre really began, when nearly everything was a shmup of some sort.

2. Twin Galaxies. Anything involving Twin Galaxies is seen as a joke here. Donkey Kong had to fight to get some respect from a few specific people

[ACSeraph]

why don t you shumpers take the Defender seriously

Because it's boring and goes nowhere. I think most people here are looking for games that have a clear end goal and finish line, which is why you don't see many people drooling over Japanese invader type games either. Sure lots of games have infinite loops, but they still have a sense of progression because each loop functions as a fully fleshed out adventure.

Maybe if defender had a complex or intriguing scoring system it would be more popular, but the scoring doesn't go anywhere beyond "kill all the things!" Since there's no stage design or sense of progression either, "kill all the things!" is literally the only thing Defender offers. Compare this to an infinitely looping shmup like Gradius. Gradius (and most shmups of this era) has the same simplistic scoring system as Defender really, but they offer far more sense of adventure, progression, and an end goal. I can't really see why anyone couldn't immediately see how superior it is.

I don't hate Defender mind you, or invader style games, but they offer no real incentives to learn at a high level. If you are skilled enough to get serious about score in Defender, why wouldn't you channel that effort and skill into a game with a far more compelling modern scoring system and an actual player community (Cave's stuff)? Similarly, if you enjoy simplicity over complex scoring, why wouldn't you choose the game with badass, well thought out level design (Gradius, R-Type, Metal Black)?

In short, people don't take Defender seriously because it's just not as good as 99% of the things we could be playing otherwise. It is inoffensive at best.

As for the East vs. West thing, it only looks that way because there are almost no Western shmups worth playing. But when they do come I think we fairly recognize them. I doubt you'd find many people here trash talking Jamestown.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Not a shmup, but where does Tetris go? Why there's not a single, seriously taken by Tetris-playing crowd attempt to make it go anywhere in the sense 2D scrolling shooters tend to go somewhere? Do all games must go there or else?

[ACSeraph]

Tetris would be more on the side of (deceptively) deep compelling mechanics that elevate basic "survival" play into a worthwhile scoring system. Defender lacks this. You'd have to be crazy to think that the basic mechanics of Defender (Or even many other survival oriented shmups) are as deep as Tetris. Tetris doesn't need to go anywhere, because it's doing a lot right where it is. Defender is going nowhere and doing little.

[Shepardus]

The TGM series games do have a definite end, as well as ways to demonstrate mastery beyond simply clearing (grade, time, etc.). The transitions to different phases of gameplay like 20G, black & white blocks, and the invisible credits roll arguably gives the games a sense of progression within a credit similar to Gradius or other "modern" shmups, albeit over a much shorter period of time.

[ACSeraph]

The TGM series games do have a definite end, as well as ways to demonstrate mastery beyond simply clearing (grade, time, etc.). The transitions to different phases of gameplay like 20G, black & white blocks, and the invisible credits roll arguably gives the games a sense of progression within a credit similar to Gradius or other "modern" shmups, albeit over a much shorter period of time.

Hmmm this is a fair point I guess, but I still think the answer to the question is simply because Defender offers less than slightly more modern games. There's nothing wrong with it, but why would most people choose it over the other options.

We could similarly ask why people don't play most 90's and earlier shmups for score. It's because they aren't offering as much as modern games on that front, and so most players don't have much incentive to pursue high level play. I actually do play older games for score, but I can tell you they definitely offer almost nothing compared to my main game Caladrius.

So what do they offer then? In my opinion the best and most popular offer a sense of scale and adventure, along with visceral combat situations. Look at Metal Black. That game is beloved because its epic, beautiful, and brutal, not because it has particularly deep mechanics. Does anyone really think Defender offers a superior adventure to that? No disrespect to it, but there is a reason no one here plays defender seriously. I doubt even Defender's defenders actually play it seriously.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I don't play Defender, but I do find Game & Watch classics via Game & Watch Gallery Advance some of the best portable games after all those years. Can totally see how someone might choose Defender just because it is that basic.
Unless Defender isn't even great as a "shallow" game (I wouldn't know), in which case no wonder it's mostly ignored.

[ACSeraph]

I agree that those kind of ultra-simplistic games have their place and audience. I wouldn't fault anyone for loving Defender. I've actually had the original gameboy version and 2600 version since I was a little kid and put countless hours and credits into it. I like it. I think it's a nice way to kill some time. I prefer it to Super Cobra. It's maybe better than Space Invaders. But it ain't Gradius.

The question was more as to why the majority doesn't take it seriously, as in why aren't we devoting hours and hours to playing it for score, or mastering it to a degree we can clear countless brutal loops like pegboy has done with Gradius. It's because the game is mediocre, simple as that. In all the years I've played it, Defender never made me want to get serious.

[Perikles]

The question was more as to why the majority doesn't take it seriously, as in why aren't we devoting hours and hours to playing it for score, or mastering it to a degree we can clear countless brutal loops like pegboy has done with Gradius.

To be fair, almost no one here takes Gradius games all that serious, either, there's very little going on in terms of multi-looping action outside of the console-exclusive games and/or console ports of the arcade games. We have 35 entries on the scoreboard for the first arcade Gradius, but only two 2-ALLs, and 2/22 in case of arcade Gradius II; and those are the same two persons who've done it. Not that I'm complaining, in the country of the blind the one-eyed man is king and such, but still!