So, lolis, moes and others in shmups

[Shepardus]

i can't be the only one who doesn't find deathsmiles to be all that sexual

No you're not the only one, people just tend to get uncomfortable when they can play as underage girls so anything remotely attractive from them is now sexualization. Meanwhile nobody bats an eye at Strikers 1945 (probably because nobody reaches the ending...).

I'm never viewing graze-milking the same way again.

[LilyLovely]

>yorgay's post
ebin man, simply ebin

[clippa]

I'm coming at this from the point of view of a sheltered westerner whose only brushes with japanese culture up to that point were games and a few films. I've never been into comics.
Your claim that "it isn't all that sexual", is probably in comparison to other japanese comics and cartoons. The fact that it is sexual at all is alien to me.
I was shocked and creeped out playing deathsmiles for the first time. I'm not trolling anyone, I'm being honest.

[shoryusatsu999]

To be brief, I don't think lolis and cutesy stuff are necessarily bad for shmups. Sure, there are times where things get a little weird (like the Windia pee tea), but I think that it's mainly pandering to a target audience that this site isn't a part of with a side of being the product of an entirely different culture. Marketing exclusively to hardcore gamers doesn't necessarily keep developers in business, after all. If anything, lolis are the least of the STG industry's problems, considering how pretty much every major field of Japanese media has had some kind of moe injection and is still successful despite or because of it. I think going into detail on what I think the issues are is beyond the scope of this thread, though.

And to all the people who are complaining about moe and Touhou and lolis "ruining" STGs, why not make a game yourself? The tools to make one are out there today and there's an entire subforum here dedicated to people developing their own STGs. Sure, it's gonna be hard and some risks will have to be taken, but is anything good made without some kind of risk?

[Durandal]

I'm coming at this from the point of view of a sheltered westerner whose only brushes with japanese culture up to that point were games and a few films. I've never been into comics.
Your claim that "it isn't all that sexual", is probably in comparison to other japanese comics and cartoons. The fact that it is sexual at all is alien to me.
I was shocked and creeped out playing deathsmiles for the first time. I'm not trolling anyone, I'm being honest.

they're just underage magic girls in goth loli dresses, man

[Lord Satori]

comics

The fact that you used this word discredits any and all of your opinions on the subject matter.

[copy-paster]

Not sure if that's an excuse though...
Otaku culture is just gay ass degeneracy.
I've said it before and I'll say it again; (Japanese) nerds need to get laid more often. With real women.

Fun fact that in another survey I've ever read, most Japanese girls are like non-Japan males, the highest rate was in Southeast Asia.

[qmish]

comics

The fact that you used this word discredits any and all of your opinions on the subject matter.

But you also underapprerciate what "comics" are. It's not only Spiderman X-Men. Graphic novel is wider medium.

[Lord Satori]

"Graphic novel" sounds like a term used by someone to try to get away with using a comic as their book report.

Now if you excuse me, I'm going to read my Batman manga.

[Mero]

It's not waifus that killed STG, it's that devs can't make it pay.

[qmish]

"Graphic novel" sounds like a term used by someone to try to get away with using a comic as their book report.

Now if you excuse me, I'm going to read my Batman manga.

Just go read Moebius instead and come back.

[clippa]

comics

The fact that you used this word discredits any and all of your opinions on the subject matter.

Whereas your pedantry concerning what a comic book should be called instantly devalues your judgement of other people, so we're back to where we started.

"Visual poetry tome" alright with you?

I'm not scoffing when I say "comic", it is still an acceptable term isn't it? If I read comics, I'd proudly call them comics. What should I be calling them?

[juonryu2nd]

occidental tapestry

[Lobinden]

Still, i can't understand HOW, just HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW people gone so CRAZY about Touhou girls? Man, you dont even see them as it is during gameplay, it's just DECORATION of game interface before

Well, technically yes you do see their character sprite during gameplay, complete with a variety of cute little animations. And tbh I'd consider the portraits that pop up during the dialogues to be "during gameplay" since you can still move around during those times, and occasionally are even positioning yourself for muh scorin strats or whatnot. And also in some games the portraits pop up when you bomb.

But technicalities aside, I would argue that the depth of one's interaction with a girk in a 2hu game actually goes far DEEPER than the shallow interactions that you have with girks in many other games. Sure, I and many other people have fapped to many of the in-game 2hu portraits, especially after some of the clothes are shot off after a long hot sweaty stinky danmaku battle, but true SUSTAINABLE love can't stem from looks alone. What distinguishes 2hus vs the oppai monsters pumped out by high production value porn factories is their positioning as the exclusive agents in a feminist utopia. They live in a world with no men other than the emasculated rinnosuke and powerless faceless humans, their flat chests are a bold rejection of the traditional burdens of motherhood, and through the spellcard system they have been empowered to live out their most primal fantasies at a whim with absolutely no medium to long term consequences. "Well, yes, the spellcard lets them fight each other, and I recognize the death drive as one of the fundamental aspects of the human psyche, but what about sex?" you retort. Ah, yes, sex. How can these girks have sex in a world full of impotent men? But what you have to realize is that, spellcard fights are more than just conflict. They are quite literealyl LESBIAN SEX between the parties involved. The 2hus use danmaku in the shape of their personal experiences instead of concentrated tactical fire because it's not about slaying your opponent but establishing an EMOTIOAL connection. The clash of two spellcards is the marriage of disparate personalities into a unified, chaotic, blissful orgy of bullets. But maybe this is too abstract. IF you actually look at the sprites in literally ANY 2hu spellcard battle, you'll notice that they are not oriented face to face, but ALWAYS face to butt. I think that many men think of lesbian sex as being synonymous with scissoring, but that's a fucking ignorant and patriarchal way of looking at things. Really the essence of lesbian sex is licking the clitoris and pegging with dildos, both of which are executed in positions where the two bodies are oriented in the same way with respect to the relative positions of their heads and feet, just as 2hus are in their spellcard battles.

In summary, in most games, the sabisu girks are presented as objects to be consumed by the male player, but in 2hus you identify as your (female) player character and then LITERALLY have sex with other 2hus repeatedly as you play. Whereas other games give you finer grained control over the physical motions that your qt girk goes through, in 2hus you're forming a deep SPIRITUAL bond that simply can't be matched by the comparatively non-interactive experiences u share with girks in other media.

This is avant-garde, but not really much more intense shitposting than most of the other stuff in this thread.

[qmish]

Avaaaant-gaaaaaarde!

[Ed Oscuro]

Those are the character designs from the Horizon Zero Dawn? Or was that Far Cry Primal?

[Lord Satori]

Whereas your pedantry concerning what a comic book should be called instantly devalues your judgement of other people, so we're back to where we started.

"Visual poetry tome" alright with you?

I'm not scoffing when I say "comic", it is still an acceptable term isn't it? If I read comics, I'd proudly call them comics. What should I be calling them?

I thought you would've picked up on the fact that I was just teasing you. Maybe I went a bit too far.

Anyway, I was going to tease you for being "oversensitive" until I google imaged Deathsmiles and remembered that character in the red dress (Rosa I think?) I'd forgotten about. I kinda understand how one would be put off by that. That said, it's not like women aren't sexualized in the western culture. The only thing that's different is the art style, really. I do admit though, that this particular style makes it harder to tell the girl's age, so it would definitely make some people uncomfortable.

[M.Knight]

Those are the character designs from the Horizon Zero Dawn? Or was that Far Cry Primal?

I think they are from D4 : Dark Dreams Don't Die.

[Eaglet]

I think they are from D4 : Dark Dreams Don't Die.

Oh yes! Pretty fun thing, that one.

[Astraea FGA Mk. I]

I wonder if pent up sexual energy makes a shmupper shmup better? Do the perverted themes amp us up? Is a 1CC a release or does that come later? Do 10% of us 1CC Cho Aniki every time?

[Durandal]

I wonder if pent up sexual energy makes a shmupper shmup better? Do the perverted themes amp us up? Is a 1CC a release or does that come later? Do 10% of us 1CC Cho Aniki every time?

Knowing that you'll see gravure pictures of your pilot when you 1CC the game can be a great motivator.

[Eaglet]

Naah, I think the reverse is true. At least for me.
I played one of my better credits when I visited Tokyo (a Golden Bat C COMPLETE) right after I'd stumbled out of a love hotel hungover as fuck.
adversity1 was there to see the glorious mess.

[NeoStrayCat]

Hahaha, lol. But, c'mon guys, 6, or about 7 pages of this topic, and not a single mention of Otomedius? I mean, besides catering to the fanservice and all, I though it would have been mentioned already a page or 2 back, lol. X3

(And don't get me started on Caladrius, unless that counts for the topic too...or not.)

[Xyga]

Moe thread <3

[Skykid]

Naah, I think the reverse is true. At least for me.
I played one of my better credits when I visited Tokyo (a Golden Bat C COMPLETE) right after I'd stumbled out of a love hotel hungover as fuck.

Ha ha, that's great!

[copy-paster]

Otomedius?

That game is a disaster.

[gray117]

Most of it is over the top - beyond a stylisation and well into a territory that intends to communicate an 'appeal' that I do not find appealing, and instead comes across as either distressing (forcefully-exploitative-peado-like) or simply distracting from what I feel would be better interpreted as the atmosphere of the actual game.

It's not exclusively a west vs east thing, or some such nonsense. There's plenty of western art with similarly over the top representations - not all of it focused on females to be fair - that doesn't always just serve to load in character/style, but instead detracts from it: Where (intended or not) sensationalized, not just sexualised, character overtures, can start to detract from the personality strength of a character/theme narrative/atmosphere, and instead undermines the overall impression supposedly being sought - even within fairly fantastical/comic settings.

For example, SDOJ, as sci-fi-bombastic as it is, contains some choices that just seem unnecessarily exploitative and out of character compared to other parts of the game. More specifically they feel like choices tacked on less for the benefit of the game and more for sensationalism... Far from investing me to the plight of the protagonists, or attracting me to the game mechanics, it instead distances me... Though I can see how, as a series, they kind of thematically painted themselves into a bit of a downward spiral with the elemental doll thing ever since doj...

Was the marketing/characters what made deathsmiles one of cave's more popular games? Or was it because the game was a slightly easier to get into, horizontal, challenging but accessible shooter? ... In several interviews I've read I believe cave themselves seem to attribute the success of the project to the character/marketing choices. Whilst this might well have sold a fair bit of merch/arcade appeal to a particular niche and secured the project's success, I don't think that fully explained the actual game's success at finding a (slightly) larger than typical user base and subsequent ports/releases.

[Cuilan]

[Bananamatic]

[Eaglet]

Ha ha, that's great!

I may have mentioned getting some まんこの力 the previous night...

Honestly, so true. There are lots of factors behind this, but cultural values are probably the biggest explanation.
I'm not entirely sure but I'd imagine a Japanese rapist would get completely shunned from society and acquaintances (just like with Swedish people) whereas "other" cultures condone rape. Preferably done in huge mobs when on your way to the weekly stoning event... I'm just gonna stop here.