Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls team

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Squire Grooktook
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Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls team

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Thought I'd spread the word on this a bit. Skullgirls is one of my top 3 favorite fighters of all time, so I'm of course looking forward to this one.

It also has the composer for Secret of Mana on board for the soundtrack, just like Michiru Yamane was for Skullgirl's ost.

Some wip/preview stuff:

An enemy WIP

Party Member animation WIP
Spoiler
Image

Image
Prototype Preview

Basically, it's a Metroidvania with a turn based combat system based on Valkyrie Profile (combos etc.). Mike Z is the lead designer/programmer as with Skullgirls (pretty good fit, he did a lot of glitch finding and speed run tech discovering for Super Metroid back when that shit was first being discovered), and he's currently doing a lot of Q&A on the Skullgirls forum for this new game.

It's gonna be crowd funded, which is coming soon.
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by soprano1 »

Looks nice, hope it plays well too if it gets funded.
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Squire Grooktook »

I am lazy and have not been reading a lot, but I believe it's one of those deals where they already have a publisher lined up, and will be doing crowd funding for additional content and polish. I THINK.
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Cagar »

Wow, it's either going to be lacking in content or released after 5 years. That art is no laughing matter to develop.
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Immryr »

I don't get it..... Isn't a turn based metroidvania just an RPG?
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Shepardus »

Immryr wrote:I don't get it..... Isn't a turn based metroidvania just an RPG?
They're calling it an RPG/platformer, so yes.

The art looks great, hope it turns out well.

That reminds me, I really should try out that copy of Skullgirls a friend gifted to me a while back...
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Cagar wrote:Wow, it's either going to be lacking in content or released after 5 years. That art is no laughing matter to develop.
They're shooting for 10-15 hour story, which is pretty generous compared to most Metroidvania's (I finished Zero Mission in 1/3rd that time).

Definitely not gonna take that long either. If you're familiar with Skullgirls development, you know the animation team got into the guinness world record book for "most animated" in a fairly short development time. The kick starter will be for adding additional stuff like post-game dungeons, super bosses, more customization and content, etc.

Also everything shown already is the product of like 1 month of work lol.
Immryr wrote:I don't get it..... Isn't a turn based metroidvania just an RPG?
It's a turn based Metroidvania. Progression will be based on gaining new platforming related abilities that allow you to reach new areas and such. Combat is just turn based, but heavily action and skill oriented.
Shepardus wrote: That reminds me, I really should try out that copy of Skullgirls a friend gifted to me a while back...


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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Immryr »

Squire Grooktook wrote:
Cagar wrote:Wow, it's either going to be lacking in content or released after 5 years. That art is no laughing matter to develop.
They're shooting for 10-15 hour story, which is pretty generous compared to most Metroidvania's (I finished Zero Mission in 1/3rd that time).
I don't know why but it irks me when people call metroid games metroidvania's. Castlevania symphony of the night had no influence on zero mission. It's pure metroid. Yes, I know I'm being a pedant.



Anyway, back OT this game sounds cool. Hopefully it will get funded.
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Cagar »

Squire Grooktook wrote: Also everything shown already is the product of like 1 month of work lol.
Yeah and what do we have? Few idle animations and attacks. Most of the stuff is WIP and the enemy designs are super simplistic. No stage graphics AT ALL.
If it's a 10-15 hours game then alright, possible to make it fairly quickly especially with metroidvania-style area recycling, but then it's lacking in length, not content :lol:
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Cagar wrote:
Squire Grooktook wrote: Also everything shown already is the product of like 1 month of work lol.
Yeah and what do we have? Few idle animations and attacks.
Pretty much the meat of the combat, and more then most rpg's. How many combat sprites does Chrono Trigger have?
Cagar wrote: If it's a 10-15 hours game then alright, possible to make it fairly quickly especially with metroidvania-style area recycling, but then it's lacking in length, not content :lol:
He said on a forum dedicated to 30 minute games, heh.

That being said, I looked back on the Q&A thread and the 15-20 hour was just speculation from forum goers. So scratch that.

What I did confirm was that development time will be about 2 years.



Also, keep in mind that, Lab Zero (the skullgirls team) isn't some indie/doujin team coding out of their basement or working it as a second job. They are a professional game development studio, who's members have serious experience in the game industry, and who already have a publisher for the game. There's pretty much zero chance that they're going to take "5 years" on anything.
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by CStarFlare »

It's not unheard of for games by competent established devs to take five years. But they've certainly got the experience to know what they're getting into and manage to that.

Sounds interesting, but unless there's some interesting backer only gameplay features (and fuck those), I will probably just pick it up at launch whenever that comes around.
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Squire Grooktook »

CStarFlare wrote:It's not unheard of for games by competent established devs to take five years. But they've certainly got the experience to know what they're getting into and manage to that.
Yeah, but I think Cagar was implying it was gonna be like one of those doujin/indie projects that gets delayed for a zillion years before finally coming out. This isn't like Crimzon Clover with Yotsubane doing everything himself on his free time. This is a full time job. These guys set deadlines, and meet them.
CStarFlare wrote: Sounds interesting, but unless there's some interesting backer only gameplay features (and fuck those), I will probably just pick it up at launch whenever that comes around.
There will be access to the beta-prototype. Sounds like they're going to be doing like the SG Beta and let people play the game as they develop it (with story stuff excised, to avoid spoilers for the final product).
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Volteccer_Jack »

Immryr wrote:I don't get it..... Isn't a turn based metroidvania just an RPG?
Metroidvania developers are always on the lookout for new and exciting ways to ruin pacing. Sometimes I think they're under the impression that bad pacing is what makes metroidvanias good.
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Volteccer_Jack wrote:
Immryr wrote:I don't get it..... Isn't a turn based metroidvania just an RPG?
Metroidvania developers are always on the lookout for new and exciting ways to ruin pacing. Sometimes I think they're under the impression that bad pacing is what makes metroidvanias good.
More like this is a case of someone trying to make exploration in an rpg more entertaining and fast paced.



Also forgot to post this earlier: Platforming WIP
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Pretty big update for anyone interested

http://indivisiblegame.com/blog/indivis ... ss-update/
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Squire Grooktook »

The crowdfunding campaign is up and so is the prototype (official download here), which contains a dungeon and a boss fight to get a feel for the games combat and gameplay. There's a lot of stuff to be implemented later (additional mechanics to be added to the combat system and other things), but it's very polished and playable already.

First impression from the demo:

Pretty damn good rpg combat.

Basically it's an active time battle system like FF4-9/Chrono Trigger/etc. Each character is controlled by a different button, (ie press a for party member a to attack, press b for party member b), and has several attacks and a special depending on whether you hold down or up during their attack. You can have party members attack simultaneously, and with good timing you can link moves into combos that build more mana/meter.

Meter is used for both specials (ie higher damage, healing spells, status ailment, etc.) and for blocking. Blocking takes away 90% of the damage from enemy attacks, but requires some reflexes. It consumes less meter if you block at the last possible moment.

Overall I think it captures the heavy resource management and choice making of "traditional rpg's", with the more action heavy elements of stuff like Mario and Luigi. I think it sits closer to more traditional stuff though, because you do take chip damage from blocking, so you can't just ninja dodge everything like you would in Mario and Luigi. It's very fast paced though and quick thinking can really turn the tides (just as hesitating can get you killed).

The actual resource management feels pretty clever. You're essentially just juggling time (your characters turns) and meter, but with the whole combo system there's lots of reasons to wait for party member turns to stack for longer combos, conserve meter, go all out, etc. the different moves on each party member also have different properties, from slowing enemies turns to building more meter at the cost of less damage. Lots of choices to make.

Overall like it a lot. The platforming and exploration is fun too.

People have already started speed running it. times range from 50 minutes to 15.
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by BulletMagnet »

Created an Indiegogo account earlier today to support this, but unfortunately the campaign still has a long way to go with a week and a half left...
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Immryr »

Yeah, it's unfortunate but it doesn't look like this will get funded.
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Blinge »

There's been some outspoken critics of the target figure. It seems people don't understand the costs of game design, though it might be something to do with other big projects low-balling their asking price.
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Shepardus »

In addition to Kickstarters like Bloodstained using Kickstarter as an interest gauge rather than an actual source of funding, people tend to vastly underestimate how much it costs to pay a full team of developers a decent salary, which is where much, if not most, of the cost of game development comes from. People see that you can make a game with zero budget in your free time and think that applies to commercial-scale projects.

As much as I want to see Lab Zero succeed, the game itself doesn't interest me all that much, which leaves me conflicted on whether I want to chip in. Though I guess at this rate the money's most likely getting returned to me even if I do chip in, so there's hardly any risk for me.
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Blinge wrote:There's been some outspoken critics of the target figure. It seems people don't understand the costs of game design, though it might be something to do with other big projects low-balling their asking price.
Yeah. People don't seem to realize that it cost 3 million dollars to make Super Metroid: A super nintendo game that can be beaten in a day.

Part of it is also that sadly, most gamers have shit taste. Bloodborne got 1 mil first day because of the nostalgia hype juggernaut. Most people are probably too busy with their movie games and mobile shit to donate to something new but good :(

As always, I blame casuals.
Shepardus wrote:As much as I want to see Lab Zero succeed, the game itself doesn't interest me all that much, which leaves me conflicted on whether I want to chip in. Though I guess at this rate the money's most likely getting returned to me even if I do chip in, so there's hardly any risk for me.
Have you played the prototype? It's a pretty deep and nuanced turn based battle system that emphasizes both manual skill and strategy. I'm actually quite hyped to have some hardcore dungeon crawling in that style. Mike says his intention is that it's a game where you can play and replay to see how your skills have improved and how much faster you can beat it, which sounds great to me.

Also Skullgirls has a surprisingly good story, and it's looking like this will follow suit and capture the charm of oldschool jrpg's like Chrono Trigger and whatnot.
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by BulletMagnet »

Squire Grooktook wrote:Yeah. People don't seem to realize that it cost 3 million dollars to make Super Metroid: A super nintendo game that can be beaten in a day.
Outta curiosity, is that figure inflation-adjusted? If not then the cost would be even higher in today's dollars.
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Squire Grooktook »

BulletMagnet wrote:
Squire Grooktook wrote:Yeah. People don't seem to realize that it cost 3 million dollars to make Super Metroid: A super nintendo game that can be beaten in a day.
Outta curiosity, is that figure inflation-adjusted? If not then the cost would be even higher in today's dollars.
Nope, it was ballpark and in "assume lowest possible amount" mode. It definitely would be higher.
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Skykid »

BulletMagnet wrote:
Squire Grooktook wrote:Yeah. People don't seem to realize that it cost 3 million dollars to make Super Metroid: A super nintendo game that can be beaten in a day.
Outta curiosity, is that figure inflation-adjusted? If not then the cost would be even higher in today's dollars.
Where's the source for that figure? It's hard to understand based on Nintendo's business practices, internal development setup and low wages they rolled with back in the early 90s. If we're factoring in marketing of that particular game, then yes, creating advertising and promoting it globally would certainly meet 3 million. But I doubt they blew 3 million on paying people to develop the game. It is a big game, granted, but it's not like it had a bespoke chipset, and it was built on a standard SFC tile editor.
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Hmm, I'd like to know too - 1994 or 2015 dollars? That'd be close to $5M today, assuming US dollars. On the other hand, looking at another site (Japanese inflation index) suggests that inflation basically isn't a thing in Japan since 1994, not sure how accurate that was.

I guess this game seems like a winner, but I admit, I was having a really tough time getting past the "Castleroid" label when there's nothing really Castlevania about it, besides the platforming. I guess it depends on how you look at it, but even the late Metroid-styled maps in Castlevania games were far more obviously about fighting than platforming, of which there was little.

Call it a Super Mariotroid or something, maybe?
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Ed Oscuro wrote:I guess this game seems like a winner, but I admit, I was having a really tough time getting past the "Castleroid" label when there's nothing really Castlevania about it, besides the platforming. I guess it depends on how you look at it, but even the late Metroid-styled maps in Castlevania games were far more obviously about fighting than platforming, of which there was little.

Call it a Super Mariotroid or something, maybe?
Progression is based on finding new powers and revisiting old areas to open new routes, so it fills the bill for both games. Sadly that sub-genre will never be able to escape the "metroidvania" moniker.
Skykid wrote:
BulletMagnet wrote:
Squire Grooktook wrote:Yeah. People don't seem to realize that it cost 3 million dollars to make Super Metroid: A super nintendo game that can be beaten in a day.
Outta curiosity, is that figure inflation-adjusted? If not then the cost would be even higher in today's dollars.
Where's the source for that figure? It's hard to understand based on Nintendo's business practices, internal development setup and low wages they rolled with back in the early 90s. If we're factoring in marketing of that particular game, then yes, creating advertising and promoting it globally would certainly meet 3 million. But I doubt they blew 3 million on paying people to develop the game. It is a big game, granted, but it's not like it had a bespoke chipset, and it was built on a standard SFC tile editor.
It's a rough estimate based on minimum wage * the core team size * the 2-3 years it was in development.
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Just from 2-3 years' wages in 1994? Damn, that escalated quickly (over the legendary small budgets of early FC games).

I wonder what it made back in its initial run, and how those profit margins compare to games today.
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by EmperorIng »

Ed Oscuro wrote:Just from 2-3 years' wages in 1994? Damn, that escalated quickly (over the legendary small budgets of early FC games).

I wonder what it made back in its initial run, and how those profit margins compare to games today.
Ha, considering the 8 year gap between Super Metroid and the next Metroid games, probably not so much! I don't think Super Metroid was very fondly regarded at the time - it's only later that it gained its near-mythic status. I like the original more. :twisted:

OT: While I hope all the work these guys put into the game doesn't go to waste (good animation, effort at creating a new game world), I can't say the words "Metroidvania" and "RPG" necessarily thrill me. Reminds me a bit of Muramasa: The Demon Blade, whose open world/stat building wore out its welcome.
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Keep in mind that there's basically no stat building though. All your powers come from stuff you find while exploring, and you have to beat bosses by mastering the system and actually using what you're given rather then grinding (which you can't).
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Re: Indivisible - Sprite based Metroidvania from Skullgirls

Post by Ed Oscuro »

EmperorIng wrote:
Ed Oscuro wrote:Just from 2-3 years' wages in 1994? Damn, that escalated quickly (over the legendary small budgets of early FC games).

I wonder what it made back in its initial run, and how those profit margins compare to games today.
Ha, considering the 8 year gap between Super Metroid and the next Metroid games, probably not so much! I don't think Super Metroid was very fondly regarded at the time
Super Metroid was extremely well regarded before 2002 by most classic gaming enthusiasts - but even so, that's not the right answer to the question. Super Metroid sold well enough that Nintendo released a Player's Choice edition. Nintendo never had to meet strict guidelines in issuing Player's Choice re-releases, but I recall a rumor that it was roughly a benchmark for about a million in sales - and definitely a sign that Nintendo expected many more sales as the original stock was all gone.

All things considered, 1M NTSC-U copies sold should have given revenues of $60M, off an initial outlay of $3M. Pretty tidy profit even before considering re-releases and the lackluster Japanese launch.
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