Cave x Steam teaser!

[copy-paster]

Kickstarter: CAVE games ported to all platforms.

Goal requirements is $26M, based on amounts of each game.

dunno about Xbox one porting cost.

[BulletMagnet]

No way they'd ever make even the 300K minimum; if those are truly the numbers they need to work with they ought to immediately abandon the idea.

[SuperPang]

Someone tell them to crowd fund a PCB instead. I'd spooge an obscene amount of money on that.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Someone tell them to crowd fund a PCB instead. I'd spooge an obscene amount of money on that.

Bromance

[_rm_]

Someone tell them to crowd fund a PCB instead. I'd spooge an obscene amount of money on that.

We can always dream

[qmish]

Is there even any modern arcades with PCB? Everything based on pc hardware currently

[Oniros]

Yeah, I'd back a new game. But there's no way in hell I'll be giving them money to port games I already own. Maybe if it were some unreleased stuff.

[HydrogLox]

porting one existing title to Steam and PS4 would require a $1M budget !?

I don't think it's a budget but a "revenue target". It represents the minimum volume of licenses that would have to be sold to make it worth their while. Remember that 30-40% of the license cost automatically goes to Steam/PSN. The remainder represents their expectation of a "minimal profit" (to reinvest in future ventures) and the actual porting budget. Also keep in mind that only a small fraction of the porting budget actually goes to the development staff. There is a significant portion earmarked to pay for the duration of the porting effort the salaries from cleaning staff to upper management, and the cost of maintaining the facilities (and utilities) were all these people work - they aren't working out of their basements at home (not that I think that there are too many basements in Japan).

Also the return has to be competitive with other business opportunities they could be pursuing - i.e. smart phone apps with lots of micro transactions. Basically the time where Cave may have taken pride in being an "STG company" has long gone - they are now simply a business that follows where the money leads them.

[slateman]

Can we do a recap? I've been keeping up with this thread but OMFG that's a lotta pages for THIS info:

Cave title ported to Steam
Title: Mushihimesama HD
Date: Unknown
Price: Unknown? (Guessing $20)
DLC: 1.5 Confirmed (Guessing $10)

ummm...That's it, right? 31 pages and we just know a title + 1.5?

[CloudyMusic]

We know that the release timing is "winter."

[Xyga]

porting one existing title to Steam and PS4 would require a $1M budget !?

I don't think it's a budget but a "revenue target"

Makes more sense from that perspective, I'm aware enterprise/business first means costs, but here Steam's or PSN's humongous's share more than anything else motivates the estimate.
I bet each ported game would have to sell a lot if we want to see more...

[STG4WD]

3 Million US Dollars for a new game?

We'd have to be talking about one charming muufuggin game...

[qmish]

UE4 engine danmaku?

[HydrogLox]

porting one existing title to Steam and PS4 would require a $1M budget !?

I don't think it's a budget but a "revenue target"

Makes more sense from that perspective, I'm aware enterprise/business first means costs, but here Steam's or PSN's humongous's share more than anything else motivates the estimate.
I bet each ported game would have to sell a lot if we want to see more...

Going with that interpretation the information is actually buried in the statement:

0.5M porting a title to Steam

If we assume $20 per Mushihimesama HD Steam licence then 500000/20 = 25000.

So unless Mushihimesama HD sells in excess of 25,000 licenses on Steam, Cave won't even consider porting another (Xbox 360 game) to Steam. My guess is that they would like to see the sales target reached within the first month of release - though they may wait to see what the numbers are like at the end of the third month (how far ?beyond? the target did sales go?) before finally making up their mind.

According to VGChartz Mushihimesama HD sold less than 20,000 Xbox 360 licenses - and less than 10,000 copies in the first month.

[emphatic]

Isn't the assumption and guessing game rather pointless? A new PCB based game would be a dream come true of course, they could also port that to PC while they program it so they can just release it a year after it's arcade release.

[vector7]

I don't think it's a budget but a "revenue target". It represents the minimum volume of licenses that would have to be sold to make it worth their while. Remember that 30-40% of the license cost automatically goes to Steam/PSN. The remainder represents their expectation of a "minimal profit"

Kickstarter is not steam/psn though. https://www.kickstarter.com/help/fees I don't know if that's the only fees that ks takes, some money will be needed for physical rewards for backers (if there will be any). Anyway i'm not sure that it's good to include "minimal profit" in ks budget, after all they want to sell it later on steam and maybe ps4 and will be able to get profit that way. $300 000 already seems like a high goal, not many projects get this much money, of course cave is the most famous shmup developer which is still active (kinda), but i doubt that general interest in shmups is high enough.

My guess is that they would like to see the sales target reached within the first month of release - though they may wait to see what the numbers are like at the end of the third month (how far ?beyond? the target did sales go?)

I read that games on steam can gain some money for years, though it's obviously not true for every game. But basically you'll most probably sell good amount of copies if your game will appear on the main page during some major sale and if it will have a good discount. I suspect that appearing in daily deals and smaller sales could get some money too. Small example: if i remember correctly LISA almost doubled it's owners on steamspy after summersale (it was -70% during flash sale and -50% during the rest of the summersale) and it gained about 20-30k more after daily deal (-50%). I guess cave's games have more chances to appear on the main page than some more obscure shmups but it's probably a job for degica.

[HydrogLox]

they could also port that to PC while they program it so they can just release it a year after it's arcade release.

According to their own numbers they consider developing a new (arcade/STG) game to be (up to) 10 times more effort than porting an existing Xbox 360 game. On top of that it is a lot riskier - with an existing title there is a relative sense of how popular it is - a entirely new title always has to possibility of failing miserably.

Cave is a publicly traded company so they have to justify their behavior to the majority shareholders - it takes a lot less effort and risk to make money in the (psychologically addictive) smartphone game (with micro-transactions) market. Shareholders only accept risk if there is a potential payoff on the other side - but nobody believes in a mainstream renaissance of arcade games and STGs.

some money will be needed for physical rewards for backers (if there will be any).

The rewards for the backers will be Steam/PSN licenses - and Cave will have to pay them the usual percentage of the sticker price.

Anyway i'm not sure that it's good to include "minimal profit" in ks budget.

That "minimal profit" also represents a contingency for when the effort takes longer than originally planned - which it invariably does. Cave is looking at Kickstarter as a pre-financed business venture, so there better be profit otherwise they might as well be doing something else. Any post-Kickstarter sales would simply be viewed as "gravy". Granted I don't think that view aligns with the original spirit of Kickstarter - i.e. to kickstart product development - but Cave seems to be looking at Kickstarter as an opportunity for (all the) end-consumers to finance Cave's product venture up front.

if your game will appear on the main page during some major sale and if it will have a good discount.

Games sold during sales pay less to the developer, publisher and Steam. It is obvious that Cave has certain "revenue requirements/expectations" - games sold at a discount contribute less to reaching that goal so therefore even more licenses will have to be sold (e.g. 40,000 instead of 25,000) before Cave is satisfied. In the end they want to recoup their investment ASAP and harvest some profits so they can keep going as a business.

[Furry Fox Jet Pilot]

You all realize that the kickstarter goals they listed are just examples, right?

[Strikers1945guy]

Someone tell them to crowd fund a PCB instead. I'd spooge an obscene amount of money on that.

We can always dream

Not even a new games, just rerelease the Akai Katana Home Edition & Mushi 1.5 PCB Kits. They could easily get enough backers/preorders to do a small run and make some extra coin no problem.

[CloudyMusic]

Didn't Cave say when they finished SDOJ that they literally have no supply anymore for CV1000 parts? I don't think anyone is producing SH-3 CPUs anymore.

[Icarus]

I wouldn't be surprised if Cave's next game (if they ever make one) will be on NESiCA.

[Shepardus]

Someone wrote that future CAVE releases would be fore NESiCA, but the source it cites is a CAVE-STG forum thread which I can't find archived anywhere.

[Strider77]

I wouldn't be surprised that their next game sucked..... unless it just embraced the whole perv thing 100 percent and you controlled a pair of flying boobs with thrusters. Then the control panel/controller was two track balls side by side to look like a pair of boobs.

[Icarus]

I'd play that.

[Strikers1945guy]

Didn't Cave say when they finished SDOJ that they literally have no supply anymore for CV1000 parts? I don't think anyone is producing SH-3 CPUs anymore.

Well damn, since that means that the small glimmer of hope for anymore SH3 runs is officially dead these games will just get harder and harder to find

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Is there even any modern arcades with PCB? Everything based on pc hardware currently

I've never been to Japan but every arcade I've been to since Jamma came out had Jamma cabs.

Didn't Cave say when they finished SDOJ that they literally have no supply anymore for CV1000 parts? I don't think anyone is producing SH-3 CPUs anymore.

Well damn, since that means that the small glimmer of hope for anymore SH3 runs is officially dead these games will just get harder and harder to find

They said the parts were getting harder and harder to source. Also I don't know why you would expect them to reprint old boards.

[Strikers1945guy]

Didn't Cave say when they finished SDOJ that they literally have no supply anymore for CV1000 parts? I don't think anyone is producing SH-3 CPUs anymore.

Well damn, since that means that the small glimmer of hope for anymore SH3 runs is officially dead these games will just get harder and harder to find

They said the parts were getting harder and harder to source. Also I don't know why you would expect them to reprint old boards.

I would never *expect* them too, that would be too much to ask of Cave. But if they still had spare Sh3 boards or whatever the way they milked those 360 collections it seems like an easy way to bring in some extra profit.

Say they had 200 Sh3 pcbs laying around with no data. Load them up with Black Labels & Rarer Sh3 releases like Mushi 1.5 & SDOJ

Even WITHOUT artwork or a box if they sold them for like $900 a pop they would sell out pretty fast and they wouldn't have to make any new games, or contact suppliers for reprints of boxes and art.

[nekketsu]

I wouldn't be surprised that their next game sucked..... unless it just embraced the whole perv thing 100 percent and you controlled a pair of flying boobs with thrusters. Then the control panel/controller was two track balls side by side to look like a pair of boobs.

The good news is due to loli obsession the boob hitbox would be minuscule.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

I would never *expect* them too, that would be too much to ask of Cave. But if they still had spare Sh3 boards or whatever the way they milked those 360 collections it seems like an easy way to bring in some extra profit.

Say they had 200 Sh3 pcbs laying around with no data. Load them up with Black Labels & Rarer Sh3 releases like Mushi 1.5 & SDOJ

Even WITHOUT artwork or a box if they sold them for like $900 a pop they would sell out pretty fast and they wouldn't have to make any new games, or contact suppliers for reprints of boxes and art.

They could charge more than that but it's insanely rare for a company to do that with arcade games. Cave would probably be the first company these days to be able to do it but it's incredibly rare. The closest things that come to mind are Capcom resales (but that was because of extra Street Fighter 2 parts) and Seibu (but that was because they were obsessed with making newly designed PCBs).

I'm sure they don't have any blank PCB stock. It probably gets put together after the roms are programmed. The same machine puts on all the chips. And they have seemingly sold out every product they have ever made.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Also if we are hardware dreaming then I'll throw in a home Jamma Cave system that uses carts for the games and plugs into USB for updates. lol